Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Abiah Roberts

Abiah Roberts (reply)

jaj — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 05:03:09 +0000

Jim, not sure about explaining all of the above. I think that Abia (1813c) in the 1835 marriage is the daughter of Moses Roberts and Mary Hayward and that she died 1841, buried Drybrook 25 September. John Buffin then married Eliza Roberts in 1848, incorrectly stating that he was a bachelor.

Your details of the 1851 Census for John Buffin:
BUFFIN John 40 Coal Miner East Dean
Eliza 30 Ruardean
ROBERTS John 19 Coal Miner East Dean ***
BUFFIN Maria 16 East Dean - mother ABIAH
Israel 14 Coal Miner East Dean - mother ABIAH
William 11 Scholar East Dean - have not found baptism on this site but assume Abiah
Eliza 8 Scholar East Dean - have not found baptism on this site but assume Eliza
Lucy 6 Scholar East Dean - mother ELIZA
Abiah 4 Scholar East Dean - have not found baptism on this site but assume Eliza
John 3 East Dean - mother ELIZA
Thomas 8m East Dean - mother ELIZA

*** John ROBERTS, illegitimate son of Abiah Roberts, bap 18 Mar 1832 Ruardean
You have advised: He married twice to Mary Ann Roberts 1843 & Jane Roberts 1838 the latter marriage 27 Nov 1870 Cinderford both ladies daughters of William Roberts son of Moses Roberts & Mary Hayward.
Mary Roberts daughter of William Roberts did not marry and was a witness at the marriage of her sister Jane to John Roberts in 1870. I believe that John married Mary Ann Hatton in 1863, and Mary Ann died Dec 1867.

The Abiah Roberts, who married Giles Brain, may possibly be the daughter of Moses Roberts and Mary? - bap Drybrook 1818 transcribed as Alia and mother may be Margaret not Mary, residence Cinderford. Abiah Brain's age at death is 30 years in 1847.

Not sure how William Turner is the father of Eliza Roberts but I have found a marriage of Mary Roberts, father William Turner in 1846, so more researching is required.

Hope this is of assistance.

Moses Roberts 1773/1841 (reply)

jimashton — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:38:05 +0000

Sue

Wills are a wonderful source of information and thanks for posting the will of Moses Roberts. Moses Roberts 1773/1841 is a 2nd cousin 5 times removed. From the will I have picked up that his daughter Sarah married George Leadbetter (27 Aug 1831) I know the John Glover & Adam Wintle connection mentioned, also William George Moses and Giles.

I am a little baffled by the Buffin's. I can find a marriage to Abia

Year: 1835
Month: Mar
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: BUFFIN
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: [not stated]
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Hun[dre]d of St. Braivills
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: ROBERTS
Brides_Forenames: Abia
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Hun[dre]d of St. Bravals
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Levi Baldwin
Witness_2: Mark of Mariah Buffin
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J. Sell Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 85
Parish_Chapel: Abenhall

But I have the marriage of Abiah Roberts 1813/1847 daughter of Moses Roberts & Mary Hayward to Giles Brain, where she is clearly shown as spinster :

Year: 1837
Month: Sep
Day: 23
Grooms_Surname: BRAIN
Grooms_Forenames: Giles
Grooms_Age: of full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: collier
Grooms_Residence: Ruardean Hill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Brain
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: James
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: ROBERTS
Brides_Forenames: Abiah
Brides_Age: of full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: none stated
Brides_Residence: Ruardean Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Roberts
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Moses
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Mark of George Roberts
Witness_2: Abiah Harris
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: George Ridout Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 6
Parish_Chapel: Newland

In the 1841 Census below Cornelius & Enos Brain are Giles Brain's siblings.

1841 Census Ruardean
Giles Brain abt 1816 Dean Forest
Abia Brain abt 1821 Dean Forest
Cornelius Brain abt 1831 Dean Forest
Enos Brain abt 1826 Dean Forest

1851 Census East Dean
CHIVERS John Widow/er 71 Blacksmith Somerset Teinsbury ?
Jane 37 East Dean
Miriam 28 East Dean
Eliza Grand Daughter 8 East Dean
BRAIN Giles Lodger Widow/er 39 Coal Miner East Dean
James Lodger 8 East Dean
Cornelius Lodger 23 Coal Miner East Dean

1861 Census East Dean
Simeon Brain 41 Coal Miner East Dean
Ann 37 East Dean
Ellen 15 East Dean
Cornelius 12 Coal Miner East Dean
Elizabeth 10 East Dean
Lydia 7 East Dean
James 4 East Dean
Anne 2 East Dean
Giles Brain Lodger 48 widower Coal Miner East Dean
James 16 Coal Miner East Dean

I have a John Roberts 1834 an illegitimate son of Abiah Roberts 1813/1847 daughter of Moses Roberts & Mary Hayward. He married twice to Mary Ann Roberts 1843 & Jane Roberts 1838 the latter marriage 27 Nov 1870 Cinderford both ladies daughters of William Roberts son of Moses Roberts & Mary Hayward. The Census data confuses further :

1851 Census East Dean
BUFFIN John 40 Coal Miner East Dean
Eliza 30 Ruardean
ROBERTS John 19 Coal Miner East Dean
BUFFIN Maria 16 East Dean
Israel 14 Coal Miner East Dean
William 11 Scholar East Dean
Eliza 8 Scholar East Dean
Lucy 6 Scholar East Dean
Abiah 4 Scholar East Dean
John 3 East Dean
Thomas 8m East Dean

This John Buffin 1813, son of William Buffin 1781 & Ann Cooke is in my Family Tree as he married Eliza Roberts 1821 and their daughter Lucy 1844 married Robert Yemm 1839. The marriage for John Buffin shows Eliza Roberts as a spinster but father William Turner :

Year: 1848
Month: June
Day: 11
Grooms_Surname: BUFFIN
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: 35
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Ruar Dean Hill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Buffin
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: ROBERTS
Brides_Forenames: Eliza
Brides_Age: 27
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Ruardean Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Turner
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Mark
Witness_1: William Brain
Witness_2: Sarah Brain
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry G. Nicholls
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 23
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

Can anyone explain all this ?

Jim Ashton

Moses Roberts's will (reply)

isherwop — Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:13:34 +0000

Sue,
Thanks so much for the will. Unfortunately I have only just come across your contribution and in the meantime have been through the time consuming business of obtaining a copy of the will and transcribing it myself. Are you interested in the will of Moses Roberts son of Moses and Mary Roberts? As you know he died just before his Father of typhus at the age of 34. I have a copy of the document authorising his wife Priscilla to be the executor of the will which was valued at under 100 pounds.
Peter

Moses Roberts's will (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 01:02:59 +0000

According to HG Nicholls' 1858 book "The Forest Of Dean", "Prosper" is mentioned as being worked from at least 1753.

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/ebooks/gutenberg/24505/24505-h.htm

And according to this recent thread from another Forum it still is !?.

http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?4,37065,40484

Moses Roberts's will (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:20:58 +0000

Well done Sue, top result. Not only did Moses work in a mine, he owned one, not to mention a "Brewhouse" too !.
Thank Heavens for the ladies, once again puts us blokes to shame.
And thanks for highlighting to me an aspect of this great site I've overlooked, I look forward to some good reading there.

Moses Roberts's will (reply)

dink999 — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:05:12 +0000

You might want to look at the following link which mentions a Colliery called Prosper Level at Harry Hill in Moses Roberts's will

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/downloads/Wills/ROBERTS_William_Plump_Hill_1842.pdf

Sue

Coal Mine Name and Location near Harry (Harrow Hill) (reply)

unknown — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 07:48:06 +0000

How about Buttonshank just across the road above the vicarage and a couple of hundred yards below Edge Hill mine (Fairplay).

Coal Mine Name and Location near Harry (Harrow Hill) (reply)

rookancestrybest — Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:57:19 +0000

Bear in mind he could have worked at more than one mine as miners tended to work in a mine according to demand and supply.

Coal Mine Name and Location near Harry (Harrow Hill) (reply)

Jefff — Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:54:14 +0000

Just in case you didnt know this site's also useful.
http://www.pdmhs.com/1896%20Lists/1896-66.htm

Slowhands is absolutely correct suggesting East Slade in the early days such as this when there were numerous gales throughout the Forest, but it's worth remembering that certainly in more recent times it was fairly common for colliers to walk several miles to work each shift. My friend's father walked 5miles to & fro work everyday as a lad in the 1950s. This may explain why as a retired elderly man he liked nothing more than a "stroll" thro the Forest; except that he could walk very quickly for several miles !

Looking at the PRs I see 1841 was a disastrous year for the Roberts of Drybrook, very sad indeed.

Coal Mine Name and Location near Harry (Harrow Hill) (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 26 Jun 2011 06:27:26 +0000

there are a number of smaller Gales and coal mines on Ruardean Hill / Harry Hill
East Slade might be worth considering

http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/Overviewmap.html

Coal Mine Name and Location near Harry (Harrow Hill)

isherwop — Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:27:13 +0000

Moses ROBERTS was a collier all his short life. His residences were:- 1827 to 1829 Ruardean Hill, 1831 to 1841 Harry (now Harrow Hill). He must have been living close to a coal mine but the only large coal mines I can find seem to be closer to Cinderford which I thought looked a lttle too distant. Can anyone suggest what mine he might have been working at? If any of you local experts can help it would be much appreciated, Peter. I in far away New Zealand