Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Fascinating Story

Fascinating Story (reply)

admin — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 08:37:02 +0000

I should have said "it appears she went into service at Highnam Court".

Do you have any information on how Anne became the mistress of Sir John Guise of Highnam Court?

Fascinating Story (reply)

kat — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 07:06:35 +0000

Hi,

Thanks everyone for all the generous assistance that has started to create a person around this Gx grandmother.
i do appreciate your input.

i am keen to know how you knew she was in service there? Am I missing some resource I should have known about?
With thanks
Kat

Fascinating Story (reply)

admin — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 06:18:21 +0000

Who would have thought that a girl from St Briavels who went into service at Highnam Court, Gloucester would have a daughter who marries Sir George Nayler and attains the title of Lady.

Highnam Court

Lady Charlotte Wilkes NAYLER (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 12:19:33 +0000

This is on Google Books - Saturday July 11th 1835.

Court JOURNAL

Lady Charlotte Wilkes Nayler, widow of Sir George Nayler, died suddenly on Sunday last, at Brighton. An inquest was taken on the following day, from which it appeared that her Ladyship's death was occasioned by apoplexy.

Anne / Charlotte WILLIAMS - St Briavels area mid 1700's (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:42:38 +0000

Nayler, Sir George, KH, FRS [1 Jun 1826] FSA [Mar 1794] (c. 1764-28 Oct 1831), Herald at the College of Arms.
Baptized on 29 Jun 1764,
Married, 18 Sep 1792, at St. Leonard's, Shoreditch, London, Charlotte Wilkes Williams, the natural daughter of
Sir John Guise, I" Bt (1733-1783), of Highnam Ct, Gloucestershire, and sister of Frances Williams, the mother of
Robert Laurie, Clarenceux King of Anns, whose brother George married Nayler's younger daughter and coheiress,
Charlotte.

CHARLOTTE WILLIAMS
---------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: GEORGE NAYLER
Marriage: 18 SEP 1792 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London, England
--------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
--------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M040801 1785 - 1789 0396254 Film 6905089 Film
M040801 1789 - 1793 0396255 Film NONE
M040801 1793 - 1797 0296256 Film NONE
M040801 1797 - 1799 0296257 Film NONE
M040801 1799 - 1803 0396258 Film NONE
M040801 1803 - 1808 0396259 Film NONE
Sheet: 00

CHARLOTTE WILLIAMS ??????
----------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 23 MAR 1768 Llandogo, Monmouth, England
----------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN WILLIAMS
Mother: ANN
------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C058422 1725 - 1812 0104925 Film 1037085 Film
Sheet: 00

Charlotte/Frances WILLIAMS - Marriages (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:47:10 +0000

British History on line

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=118255

lists Frances Williams sister as Charlotte Wilkes Williams - (husband Sir George NAYLER) was Charlotte christened with the middle name? as this 'could' be a family name.

On Ancestry (photo copy of marriage certificates)

Hackney, Shoreditch St Leonard - 1792

George NAYLER of this Parish, Bachelor and Charlotte WILLIAMS of this parish, Spinster - were married in this Church by Banns this 18 day of September 1792 by me Joseph ROSE, Minister.

This Marriage was soleminized between us: George NAYLER - Charlotte WILLIAMS

In the presence of Frances NAYLOR and George LIMMING

----

Westminster, St Marylebone, 1794

No. 1332 John LAWRIE (seems to be spelt with a W -) of this Parish, Bachelor and Frances WILLIAMS of the same Parish married in this Church by Banns this 23 day January in the year 1794. signed John LAURIE (looks like a U) and Frances WILLIAMS.

Benj. LAWRENCE (Curate)

witnesses: Thos. BIRT? - Mary WESTERN

----

Baptism, Camden St Pancras Parish Church 28 April 1806

Robert LAWRIE (with a W) - born 27 March 1806 - parents John & Francis

< Bath Milliner> Bath Wiltshire ? (reply)

kat — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:59:30 +0000

Hi,
Can I email you part 1 of the will under discussion? This has the whole reference to Bath Milliner.

Kat

< Bath Milliner> Bath Wiltshire ? (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:20:52 +0000

The will refers to the girls as living in what looks like "Bath Milliner",

If you can provide the full context we might be able to offer some help like Bath Wiltshire ( Ok its in Somerset but the border is close by )....

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/WIL/ca...

If you look at the left hand side you will see BATH just outside Wiltshire near Bradford (on Avon) and Limpley Stoke.

Anne Williams - St Briavels (reply)

kat — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:14:45 +0000

Thank you for your prompt response.
I will explore the archives option, noting your reference to a previous thread. I have found that archive section very helpful in the past when exploring the connection between another family member (Sarah Elizabeth Brain & her marriage to E. Grace , as his 4th wife).
It is possible that he may have provided her with a house as he performed the role of a father to the 2 girls, right up until his death. This may be in those papers.
The will refers to the girls as living in what looks like "Bath Milliner", but that does not appear to be an actual place anymore.

Ann WILLIAMS - Baptised St Briavels 1746 (reply)

kat — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:02:14 +0000

Thank you so much for the lead.
My assumption for Ann's age was based merely on John's age until proven otherwise. However I should have done a better calculation for the birth & realised it was a bit old.
I will start exploring your suggestion.
Kat

Ann WILLIAMS - Baptised St Briavels 1746 (reply)

admin — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:17:46 +0000

I can only assume that Anne was born about 1735-40

This would make Anne aged between 30-35 years when her first daughter Frances was born in 1770. Is there any information you have for your assumption?

Here is a possible baptism of Ann/Anne at St Briavels which would make Ann aged about 24 when Frances was born.

Year: 1746
Month: Sep
Day: 2
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: Ann
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: J Davies Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 14
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

----

Year: 1770
Month: Jun
Day: 29
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: Frances
Fathers_Forenames: not stated
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Thomas Edmunds Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Base Child
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 31
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

Anne Williams - St Briavels (reply)

m p griffiths — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 21:31:50 +0000

Have you made contact with the Gloucestershire Records Office?

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives

They hold the Guise family papers from 1190-1932 inc accounts books etc. estate/domestic papers/diaries - there may be information regarding private arrangements for these two girls.

There were Bastardy bonds where a father was made to pay maintenance by the Parish Officials. However, if the father made private arrangements then there would be no need for one to be issued. In addition to which the system was gradually phased out after the 1832 Reform Act and gradually replaced by maintenance orders issued by Petty Sessions Courts (equivalent to Magistrates Courts now), or the local workhouse officials if the girl ended up there.

If the father was someone prominent, it is unlikely that he would have allowed his name to be dragged through the courts in this way. He would have either made private arrangements which are difficult to trace, or the family would have been too scared to pursue it. Some men in this position did make arrangements in their wills.

This previous thread - may be useful.... (reply received from Sarah Aitken, Archives Asst. Glos. Records Office)

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=31149

Anne Williams - St Briavels

kat — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:07:04 +0000

I am looking for further information on Anne Williams. In 1770 she came home to St Briavel to have her first daughter, Frances Williams, baptised 29 June 1770. Anne was the mistress of Sir John Guise of Highnam Court (1733-1794). Frances was born on his wedding day! They later had another daughter Charlotte who was not baptised in St Briavel. Frances & Charlotte were both acknowledged by Sir John Guise & were beneficiaries in his will.
Charlotte married Sir George Nayler & Frances married John Laurie of London. Sir John was actively involved in the lives of these 2 sisters & was one of George Nayler's sponsors of his career at the College of Arms
I can only assume that Anne was born about 1735-40. It was quite usual for a first born child to be born in the home of the woman's parents so i am hoping that this is the case. I have checked the registers & note an Anne, born to John & Margaret in 1733, but that may not be the only option.
If anyone has any local knowledge or information on Anne (an ancestral grandmother) & her family I would love to hear from you. Thanks.
Kat in Adelaide.