Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ?

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ? (reply)

lottabottle — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:04:49 +0000

Thank you jim must admit I got confused but I have sorted it out now so many James's in my brain family

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ? (reply)

jimashton — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:54 +0000

No - as far as I know, as I said in my posting that James was born in 1844. I do have a James Brain who married a Mary Herbert in my Family Tree, but he was born in 1807.

I have 41 James Brain's in my Family Tree. The census data I have for James - son of Benjamin is as follows :

1881
James Brain abt 1845 Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England Head Clapham, London
Mary Brain abt 1848 Bromley Bow Wife Clapham, London
Ernest Brain abt 1872 Tooting, Surrey, England Son Clapham, London
Florence A. Brain abt 1877 Battersea, Surrey, England Daughter Clapham, London
Henry Brain abt 1875 Clapham, Surrey, England Son Clapham, London

1891
James Brain abt 1844 Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England Head Clapham, London
Mary Brain abt 1851 London, England Wife Clapham, London
Albert E Brain abt 1889 Clapham, London, England Son Clapham, London
Alfred James Brain abt 1882 Clapham, London, England Son Clapham, London
Clara E Brain abt 1887 Clapham, London, England Daughter Clapham, London
Daisy H Brain abt 1884 Clapham, London, England Daughter Clapham, London
Ernest Brain abt 1872 Tooting, London, England Son Clapham, London
Florence A Brain abt 1877 Battersea, London, England Daughter Clapham, London
Frank C Brain abt 1886 Clapham, London, England Son Clapham, London
Henry C Brain abt 1875 Clapham, London, England Son Clapham, London

1901
James Brain abt 1844 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Head Clapham, London Widow
Albert Brain abt 1890 Clapham, Surrey, England Son Clapham, London
Alfred Brain abt 1882 Clapham, Surrey, England Son Clapham, London
Florence Brain abt 1877 Clapham, Surrey, England [Wife] Clapham, London
Frank Brain abt 1886 Clapham, Surrey, England Son Clapham, London

Jim Ashton

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ? (reply)

lottabottle — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:03:41 +0000

HI JIM did james brain the son of benjamin and elizabeth brain marry mary herbert ?

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ? (reply)

jimashton — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:43:58 +0000

Jim

As usual Slowhands has covered most things and also - as usual - I have gained information from Slowhands input.

I can add information, but also correct something from Slowhands which was already endorsed as a possibility :

The parents of William Leonard Brain are indeed James Brain 1841 & Eliza Hale 1844, Eliza being the daughter of William Hale & Myra. I will show census details at the end.

James was not the son of Benjamin Brain as Slowhands as shown as a possible connection (this Benjamin 1810/1887 is also in my family tree as 2nd cousin 4 times removed with wife Elizabeth Meek 1816/1883 - my 3rd cousin 5 times removed, they did have a son James 1844 a policeman who married Mary 5 children.) The James Brain who married Eliza Hale I believe was the son of my 3rd cousin 4 times removed Moses Brain 1811/6 May1887 & Mary Ann Jones 1810/22 Aug 1886. I can go back a further 5 generations if you wish, you will need to email me as this would be too much for the forum :

Year: 1864
Month: June
Day: 5
Grooms_Surname: BRAIN
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: 22
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Ruardean Woodside
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Brain
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Moses
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Surname: HALE
Brides_Forenames: Eliza
Brides_Age: 20
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Horsley
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Hale
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Signed
Witness_1: Isaac Hale
Witness_2: Fanny Hale
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry G. Nicholls
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 181
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

1841 HO 107 364/7 folio 35
Newmans Bottom ( Ruardean Woodside)
Moses BRAIN 29 Collier
Mary 30
John 6
Elin 4
Giles 2
James 2 months

All born in county

1851 Census
BRAIN Moses 38 Coal Miner East Dean
Mary Ann 39 East Dean
John 15 East Dean
Ellen 13 East Dean
Giles 11 East Dean
James 9 East Dean
Harriet 7 East Dean
Moses 5 East Dean
David 3 East Dean
Clara 5m East Dean

1861 Ruardean Woodside
Moses Brain abt 1812 E Dean, Head
Mary Brain abt 1810 E Dean, Wife
David Brain abt 1847 E Dean, Son
Harriot Brain abt 1843 E Dean, Daughter
James Brain abt 1841 E Dean, Son
Moses Brain abt 1845 E Dean,

1881 Census
Dwelling:
Census Place: (Westbury On Severn) East Dean, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341609 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2522 Folio 10 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Moses BRAIN M 68 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Late Farmer
Mary Ann BRAIN M 69 F East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife

1871 Census East Dean
James Brain abt 1815 Head
Eliza Brain abt 1844 Horsley, Wife
Jules Brain abt 1869 Lydbrook, Son
Louisa Brain abt 1866 Lydbrook, Daughter
Moses Brain abt 1870 Lydbrook, Son

1881 Census
Census Place: (Westbury On Severn) East Dean, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341609 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2522 Folio 45 Page 9
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James BRAIN M 39 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Coal Miner
Eliza BRAIN M 37 F East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
Giles BRAIN 12 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Moses BRAIN 10 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Tom BRAIN 8 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Harriet BRAIN 6 F East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
James Jones BRAIN 5 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar

1891 Census East Dean RG12/2004/302
James Brain 49 CM East Dean
Eliza 46 East Dean
Giles 20 CM East Dean
Moses 19 CM East Dean
Thomas 17 CM East Dean
Harriett 15 East Dean
James Jones Brain 13 East Dean
William 9 East Dean

1901 Census
James Brain 60 1841 Glos Ruardean Woodside East Dean In Keeper Mason Armes

William Leonard Brain is on the 1910 Census LaSalle. IL.USA. with his sister Harriett Ellen Brain 1875 who married Clarry Alfred Whittington born 1877 East Dean.
Harriett emigrated to US 5.5.1909 Ship Caronia from Liverpool. Presumably William Leonard was visiting in 1910.

As an aside, Clarry Alfred Whittington 1877 caused me some confusion as he had a brother Clarence Oliver Whittington whose first wife was Selina Marfell (older than him by 37 years) his second wife was Jane Turner 1873 whose mother was Elizabeth Marfell. It was a second marriage for Jane Turner, her first being George Chamberlain 1869 - whose mother was Eliza Marfell. When I found Clarence on the US Census it didn't fit at all, but then discovered he had a brother with a similar name.

Jim Ashton

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ? (reply)

kithnkinfinder — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:21:20 +0000

Boy I should never doubt the Expert hey:-)

My Gt Grandmother did pass away on 15th Aug 1946, Lydbrook. It seems shortly after that William moved to Raurdean and later met another wife, Rose:-) And yes you were right mate. Both William and 3rd wife Rose died in 1961, her in Gloucester City and Will at a little cottage hospital in Lydbrook, ex care facility for seniors.

So you were batting about 99.3%:-)lol

Thanks as always Slowhands, you are the best.

Jim-Guidinglite

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1877 - 1946 (reply)

kithnkinfinder — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:02:46 +0000

Hiya Slowhands and many thanks for all the bits and pieces located overnight for me:-)

Re the third marriage for William, sadly I am not sure this can be correct as I have a postcard addressed to my Gt Gran Elizabeth Jane dated 11/9/1945 when she was staying with my Granny and Grandad in Loughborough, Leices. So her dying earlier in 1944 cannot be correct. I am going to try calling a lady in Lydbrook again and see if I can get to the bottom of this mystery for once an all hey:-)

Elizabeth died 15 Aug 1946 and is confirmed by this.:-) Must have been some more updates on Ancestry hey:-)
England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Elizabeth J Brain
Name: Elizabeth J Brain
Birth Date: abt 1877
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1946
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Gloucester Rural
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 369

I will post what I find after my call to the decendant in Lydbrook, cheers for the help as always Mate.

Jim

Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER 1882 - 1945 ? (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:54:27 +0000

My suspicion is that she dies soon after marriage

BRAIN William Leonard CARTER Elizabeth Jane Forest of Dean Lydbrook Holy Jesus 1944 3 58
BRAIN William Leonard TOWNSEND Elizabeth Jane Forest of Dean Lydbrook Holy Jesus 1944 3 58

Name: Eliza J Brain
Birth Date: abt 1882
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1945
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 305

and William remarries ......

BRAIN William Leonard JONES Rose Gertrude Forest of Dean Forest of Dean Register Office 1953 17 224
BRAIN William Leonard PRICE Rose Gertrude Forest of Dean Forest of Dean Register Office 1953 17 224

Name: Rose G Brain
Birth Date: abt 1887
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1961
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Gloucester City
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 571

William Leonard BRAIN 1882 - 1961 Lydbrook (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:55:08 +0000

Name: William Leonard Brain
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1882
Registration district: Westbury On Severn
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 251

Name: William L Brain
Birth Date: abt 1883
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1961
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 532

1st marriage
BRAIN William Leonard FREEMAN Frances May Forest of Dean Drybrook Holy Trinity 1901

Possible family :-

1891 Hausley Lydbrook
James Brain abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Brain abt 1845 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Giles Brain abt 1870 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Moses Brain abt 1872 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Brain abt 1874 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriett Brain abt 1876 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Jones Brain abt 1878 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Brain abt 1882 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

1881 Tump nr Hausley
James Brain abt 1842 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Brain abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Giles Brain abt 1869 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Moses Brain abt 1871 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Tom Brain abt 1873 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriet Brain abt 1875 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Jones Brain abt 1876 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

which at one time seemed to lead towards this family, but I should have looked for Moses not Benjamin !

1861
Benjamin Brain abt 1811 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain abt 1816 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brain abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Edwin Brain abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain abt 1846 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Brain abt 1847 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Anne Brain abt 1848 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Brain abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Benjamin Brain abt 1852 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Maryan Brain abt 1854 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alice Brain abt 1856 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Brain abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Brain abt 1858 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Clara Brain abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1851 Railway Hill
Benjn Brain abt 1812 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain abt 1817 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brain abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Edwin Brain abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain abt 1846 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Brain abt 1847 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Anne Brain abt 1848 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Brain abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

William Leonard BRAIN-Elizabeth Jane TOWNSEND nee CARTER

kithnkinfinder — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:37:11 +0000

Hello there good folk of the FOD forum. I sure could use a little help from you experts in pieceing together some details that I am as yet unsure about please?

First the story. My Great Grandfather was Tom/Thomas Townsend who was a miner,(Lydbrook) moved to wales for work like many others, then came back to Lydbrook and became the postman until his final days. He was also the Deacon of the Holy Jesus Church and buried right beside the entrance doors. Tom died 31 Oct 1937. In about 1944 his widow, Elizabeth Jane Townsend nee Carter remarried possibly in Jul-Sept 1944 from family details I have been informed. Her 2nd spouse was William Leonard Brain born c Jun 1882, Lydbrook Area, but family seemingly had roots in Stroud, Nailsworth and Horsley area?

Williams first wife was Frances May Freeman B:Sep 1883/Reg Monmouth.
Frances died Apr-Jun 1943 in Gloucester City.

William then married Jul-Sep 1944 to Elizabeth Jane Townsend My Gt Grandmother but then I cannot find death records for William or Elizabeth, "although we do know William was buried at the Holy Jesus cem with his "first wife Frances" (Was this normal?) And Elizabeth Jane who was also buried with her first husband Tom? Seems Strange?"

So what I am looking for is records of death for William Leonard Brain, plus his family line into the census records, ie Williams parents if possible please?
Plus Elizabeth Jane Brain/ex Townsend nee Carter please? I have her line and Townsend.

Records uncovered so far.

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Elizabeth J Townsend
Name: Elizabeth J Townsend
Spouse Surname: Brian
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1944
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Registration county (inferred): Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 6a
Page Number: 704

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Wilfred L Brain (Wilfred)??? Should be William but known as Alf?:-)
Name: Wilfred L Brain
Spouse Surname: Townsend
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1944
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Registration county (inferred): Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 6a
Page Number: 704

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915[/]about William Leonard Brain
Name: William Leonard Brain
Year of Registration: 1882
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 251

1901 Census with first wife Frances..

1901 England Census
about William Brain
Name: William Brain
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Francis Brain
Gender: Male
Where born: Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: East Dean
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Jesus
Town: Gloucestershire
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Sub-registration district: East Dean
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 120
Piece: 2419
Folio: 123
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
William Brain 19
Francis Brain 19
Ethel Brain 3 Months
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2419; Folio: 123; Page: 24.

I believ the parenst may be James Brain and Eliza of East Dean, but need advice:-)

Any and all help and guidance greatly appreciated in sorting this step relie line:-)

Cheers Jim Patterson. this is for me:-)