Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

jmay — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 16:58:26 +0000

Jane. I see you have mentioned Lea Bailey in one of your searches. I wonder if you knew there is quite a collection of houses built by Quakers situated around Hoovers Lane. I have been led to believe that in early days members would hold their meetings in each other’s houses, so they didn't have a church. I know of at least 2 burials in gardens. Hope this may be of some help to you.

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:07:23 +0000

I see, thanks.
Unlikely as it may sound even as a teenage schoolboy in the 70s I thought it wrong that our socalled "R.E." lessons at the Royal FoD Grammar School were essentially Bible Study, we were never taught about any other religions apart from basic C of E. Until I met my wife in the mid 80s I'd never been into a non CoE church except for annual panto at Cinderford Wesley, I'm pleased to seee that 30 years later our son's R.E. teachings included a good intro to all the various religions despite attending "strict" R.C. schools.

As you probably know this Forum is always worth searching on all subjects, this post may help, it's originator Roger is still very active on the forum som he may have more uptodate advice.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=3166

Also see http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp396-404

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

Jane Hall — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:55:28 +0000

There was a Wesleyan chapel in Pauntley - which might explain sponsors rather than godparents, but no sign of a Friends Meeting. I don't believe they have baptisms as such - but I need to find out more from Quaker friends (no pun intended!)

Thomas William Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:52:58 +0000

Oops, hi Jane, you caught me just as I was in the process of moving this query to it's more "correct" home higher up the thread, ah well never mind.

No I appreciate such Marriage Records might be hard to find, I see Gretna comes under Scotland BMDs so beyond my experience I'm afraid. My point was really asing if you'd realised that Frances might be used instead of Fanny, some researchers might not have thought of this, but looks like you have done.

Thomas William Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jane Hall — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:45:29 +0000

Might have been known as Frances, but if the story that she and Thomas Hall eloped to Gretna Green, then there would probably be no record of the marriage!

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:43:31 +0000

Hi Jane, just a thought, was elusive Fanny ever known as Frances, perhaps she used this more formal version of Fanny for her Marriage Record for example ?

That said, I've searched all the PRs and also the excellent GlosBMD site for ALL births of "Lea/Leigh/Lee", forename starting "F" after 1850 and without success, except perhaps this one ??

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
LEA Fanny LEA 1858 Gloucester Gloucester, Newent 10 130

Record_ID: 249192
Entry_Number: 321
Year: 1858
Month: Sep
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: LEA
Child_Forenames: Fanny
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Amelia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Pauntley
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: T.P. Little Incumbent
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Sponsors Caroline Selwyn - Newent Ann Leighton - Pauntley Henry Baylis - Pauntley George Price - Pauntley
Notes:
Register_Reference: P246 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 41
Parish_Chapel: Pauntley
Soundex: L000

Does the word "sponsor" suggest a Charity involvement here, possibly religious ?, or is this just a formal way of saying Godparents etc, I have asked this question of the forum in the past but without clarification.

Thomas (William?) Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jane Hall — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:42:05 +0000

Really helpful, Jefff
Louisa is not, as I had previously thought, one of Fanny & Thomas's numerous children (6 girls, 1 boy) - so that's a lead I can disregard now.

Best wishes

Jane

Thomas William Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:32:38 +0000

Hi Jane, just a thought, was elusive Fanny ever known as Frances, perhaps she used this more formal version of Fanny for her Marriage Record for example ?

John Morse Williams b 1883 Lydney. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:58:19 +0000

Here's Sarah Anne Hall's eldest son John's PRs;

Record_ID: 41413
Entry_Number: 245
Year: 1883
Month: Jul
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: John Morse
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lydney
Occupation: Puddler
Officiating_Minister: John J.Trollope
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC 209 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 31
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: W452

Record_ID: 34062
Entry_Number: 346
Year: 1906
Month: Apr
Day: 16
Grooms_Surname: WILLIAMS
Grooms_Forenames: John Morse
Grooms_Age: 22
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Tinplate Worker
Grooms_Residence: Woolaston
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Williams
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John Morse
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: LEWIS
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth Ann
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Woolaston
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Lewis
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Alfred
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: [not stated]
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Gilbert Williams
Witness_2: Ethel Lewis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Willis F A Lambert Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P376 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 173
Parish_Chapel: Woolaston
Soundex_Groom: W452
Soundex_Bride: L200

Record_ID: 280452
Entry_Number: 612
Year: 1947
Month: Jan
Day: 30
Surname: WILLIAMS
Forenames: John Morse
Residence: Swan Road
Age_at_death: 68
Officiating_Minister: L P Jones Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/38
Page_No: 77
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: W452

Sarah Anne Hall b 1855 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:56:51 +0000

Cannot yet find a marriage for Louisa, but here's her mothers in 1883;

Record_ID: 34517
Entry_Number: 153
Year: 1883
Month: Feb
Day: 7
Grooms_Surname: WILLIAMS
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: 28
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Puddler
Grooms_Residence: Lydney
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: WILLIAMS
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: HALL
Brides_Forenames: Sarah Ann
Brides_Age: 28
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Lydney
Brides_Fathers_Surname: HALL
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Charles Williams
Witness_2: Edith Mary Addis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John J Trollope
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/16
Page_Number: 77
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex_Groom: W452
Soundex_Bride: H400

Which gives;

1891 Census, Factory Lane, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Williams Head M 36 Labourer Tin Works Glamorganshire, England
Sarah A Williams Wife F 36 Gloucestershire, England
John M Williams Son M 7 Gloucestershire, England
Gilbert Williams Son M 10 Gloucestershire, England
Rosina Williams Daughter F 4 Gloucestershire, England
Bessie Williams Daughter F 1 Gloucestershire, England

So Louisa's already left the household it seems.

I cannot find her mother Sarah Anne in the 1901 Census, this is why, sadly...

Record_ID: 28357
Entry_Number: 432
Year: 1899
Month: Feb
Day: 4
Surname: WILLIAMS
Forenames: Sarah Ann
Residence: Lydney
Age_at_death: 44
Officiating_Minister: J.C.E.Besant Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: [Besant underlined]
Register_Reference: Lydney P209 IN 1/14
Page_No: 54
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: W452

1901 Census, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Williams Head M 46 FIREMAN STATIONARY ENGINE Lydney, Gloucestershire
John Williams Son M 17 CATCHER TIN WORKS Lydney, Gloucestershire
Gilbert Williams Son M COLD ROLLER TIN WORKS 16 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Rosie Williams Daughter F 15 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Bessie Williams Daughter F 12 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Charlie Williams Son M 10 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Agnes Williams Daughter F 6 Lydney, Gloucestershire

So John's now a fireman aka stoker/operator of a stationary steam engine, probably still at the Tin works, his engine provides motive power for the mill's essential rolling equipment and perhaps electric lighting too, so a very responsible job. Eldest son John has a very dangerous job for such a young age, highly skilled too; using tongs he catches very hot & heavy sheets of tinplates as they exit one set of rollers before he feeds them thro' the next set, each time they're getting squeezed thinner and so wider.
If you see my post in this old thread you can gain a much greater insight into the Lydney Tin plate works. http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=42285

I won't give all the various individual LDS records to save space, but it seems that John is still living in Factory Lane Lydney with his son John Morse in the 1911 Census. Here is John Senior with his family in earlier years (father Charles as per the Marriage PR etc);

1871 Census, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Charles Williams Head M 49 Roller. Whitchurch, Glamorganshire
Hannah Williams Wife F 45 Whitchurch, Glamorganshire
Martha Williams Daughter F 19 Whitchurch, Glamorganshire
Elizabeth Williams Daughter F 17 Whitchurch, Glamorganshire
John Williams Son M 16 Whitchurch, Glamorganshire
Charles Williams Son M 8 Lydney, Gloucestershire
William J Williams Son M 7 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Jenet Williams Daughter F 3 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Margrett Lewis Friend F 0 Lydney, Glamorganshire

1881 Census, Factory Lane, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Charles Williams Head M 56 Labourer Tin Works (T P W) Whitchurch, Glamorganshire, Wales
Hannah Williams Wife F 54 Whitchurch, Gloucestershire, Wales
John Williams Son M 26 Puddler. Whitchurch, Glamorganshire, Wales
Charles Williams Son M 19 Tin Furnace Man (T P W) Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
William Williams Son M 17 Tin Catcher Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Janatte Williams Daughter F 12 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England

1861 Census, Factory Row, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Charles Williams Head M 35 Iron call furnaceman Mellingreffin, Glamorganshire
Hannah Williams Wife F 35 Mellingreffin, Glamorganshire
Martha Williams Daughter F 10 Mellingreffin, Glamorganshire
Elizabeth Williams Daughter F 8 Mellingreffin, Glamorganshire
John Williams Son M 7 Mellingreffin, Glamorganshire
Jerrold Williams Son M 1 Lydney, Gloucestershire

So John and his brothers all followed father into the Tin Plate Works (mill).
The family came from a town closely associated with the tinplate industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melingriffith_Tin_Plate_Works

Thomas (William?) Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:15:19 +0000

Hi Jane,
I should have looked for this Census yesterday, here's Jane after she'd lost Thomas Senior, still in their Albert Street home;

1891 Census, Albert Street, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Jane Hall Head F 70 Widow. Charwoman. Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Louisa Hall Granddaughter F 11 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England

Sadly LDS doesn't give the whole household in one hit for the 1901 Census, altho as Head she could be living alone by now ?;

Name Jane Hall
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place Lydney (Gloucs), Monmouthshire, England
County Monmouthshire
Civil Parish Lydney (Gloucs)
Ecclesiastical Parish St Marys Lydney
Sub-District Lydney
Registration District Chepstow
Residence Note Albert Street
Gender Female
Age 80
Occupation CHARWOMAN
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1821
Birthplace Lydney, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type 96
Page Number 16

These records seems to suggest the Chepstow Burial Record of 1907 is hers.

This site's PRs have Louisa's Baptism, her mother is Jane's daughter Sarah Ann;

Record_ID: 41198
Entry_Number: 30
Year: 1881
Month: Mar
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: HALL
Child_Forenames: Louisa
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah Ann [Hall]
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Newerne
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: John J.Trollope
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC 209 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 4
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: H400

I cannot find her as Louisa HALL for certain in later Census's, did she marry before 1901 ?. Perhaps she's still living with Grandmother Jane in Lydney ?. I cannot find her anywhere, either in Census or Marriage records.

Thomas William Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jane Hall — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:29:50 +0000

Thanks for taking the time to provide so much information, Jefff.

Yes, it is the Silvertown Hall family I'm interested in. I don't have all my records handy at the moment, but according to the 1861 census Thomas's father was also a Thomas & probably married to Jane (nee Morse?) - it looks as though they were living with her father, James Morse, who is listed as Head of Household.

Having been pointed in the direction of the 1881 census I was pleased to discover that the infant Louisa Hall was living with her grandparents, Thomas Snr & Jane. This also gives me a lead to research for Thomas Snr.

I'm still puzzled about Quaker Fanny Lea & am not finding it easy to access Society of Friends records for the period. The search goes on!

Best wishes

Jane

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

Jane Hall — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:15:50 +0000

Thanks Mike

Yes, I've explained in my reply to Chris why I'm a bit doubtful. My dad & aunt were both positive that Fanny was from a Quaker family - so unless they joined the Society of Friends later on it seems unlikely she would have been baptised. Also father's occupation by 1871 is given as butcher/innkeeper - rather improbable if he was a Quaker! Not ruling the leads out altogether at this stage though.

Best wishes

Jane

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

Jane Hall — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:11:45 +0000

Thanks for this ChrisW
I had found the entry, but was a bit uncertain since by 1871 the family seem to have moved to Lea Bailey, Hereford (sorry, haven't got all the details to hand) - but father (William) listed as a butcher/innkeeper. This occupation seems at odds with fact that my father & aunt were both positive that Fanny was from a Quaker family. They recalled her using the 'thee' form in speech, among other details. Dad and his sister both handed down the family story that she & Thomas Hall eloped to Gretna Green because her family didn't approve of the match. They subsequently settled in Silvertown, West Ham, London - & I have pretty comprehensive records from then on.

I have so far been unable to locate any mention of Fanny in non-conformist records.

One of the other respondents to this thread Has pointed me in the direction of the 1881 census when Fanny & Thomas's daughter, Lily, was living with her grandparents, Thomas & Jane Hall in Albert St. Lydney. Delighted to find this as it confirms who Thomas's parents were. I wondered why Lily didn't appear on the 1881 census with the rest of the family in Silvertown.

Best wishes

Jane

Thomas (William?) Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 05:08:31 +0000

Re the apparently-incomplete 1861 Census transcript, I now wonder if this is in fact the whole household. Hence Edwin Morse is actually the son of Thomas Hall, and not the son of a "missing" Head of household as I'd first assumed, ie James Morse as per your original post, Jane; or did you mistype James instead of Jane ??

My reason for wondering is this PR which fits Edwin MORSE in the 1861 Census;

Record_ID: 38200
Entry_Number: 234
Year: 1846
Month: Jul
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: MORSE
Child_Forenames: Edwin
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: [Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lidney
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: Charles Taylor
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: base born Child of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 30
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: M620

So, repeating my search for the other children gives;

Record_ID: 38501
Entry_Number: 535
Year: 1850
Month: Nov
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: MORSE
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tuthill
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: Charles Taylor
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: base born child of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 67
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: M620

Record_ID: 38812
Entry_Number: 46
Year: 1855
Month: Jan
Day: 23
Parents_Surname: MORSE
Child_Forenames: Sarah Ann
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tuthill
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: Charles Taylor
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: base born daughter
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 6
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: M620

Record_ID: 39273
Entry_Number: 507
Year: 1860
Month: Jul
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: MORSE
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Naas Lane
Occupation: Servant
Officiating_Minister: Gilmour Harvey Offic[iatin]g Min[ister]
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Illegitimate son living with Thomas Hall in fornication
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: M620

Record_ID: 39274
Entry_Number: 508
Year: 1860
Month: Jul
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: MORSE
Child_Forenames: James Baker
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Naas Lane
Occupation: Servant
Officiating_Minister: Gilmour Harvey Offic[iatin]g Min[ister]
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Illegitimate son living with Thomas Hall in fornication
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: M620

Sorry Jane to find this "interesting" background, but at least it explains my problems findng their Baptisms etc earlier. I'm confused why you believe Thomas Junior later adopted the name William ?
Maybe this is a nod toward his biological father, just as "Baker" seems an unusual second name to give James ?.
I also wonder if Thomas Hall ever actually married Jane Morse, I've not found a record yet, not that such a situation was particularly unusual in those days.

Revisiting the LDS aka FamilySearch site, I now find;

1871, Lydney, Monmouthshire, Wales.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Hall Head M 56 Labourer. Northamptonshire
Jane Hall Wife F 50 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Edwin Hall Son M 24 Labourer. Lydney, Gloucestershire
Sarah Ann Hall Daughter F 16 Lydney, Gloucestershire
James B Hall Son M 10 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Frederick W Hall Son M 7 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Harry W Hall Son M 3 Lydney, Gloucestershire

So where's our Thomas Junior, perhaps just out of the home on Census night ?

1881, Albert Street, Lydney, Monmouthshire, Wales.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Hall Head M 68 General Labourer. Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England
Jane Hall Wife F 60 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Harry Hall Son M 13 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Louisa Hall Grand Daughter F 1 Silvertown, Essex, England

------------------

Thomas Senior's death ?

Record_ID: 27747
Entry_Number: 333
Year: 1888
Month: Feb
Day: 18
Surname: HALL
Forenames: Thomas
Residence: Albert Street
Age_at_death: 74
Officiating_Minister: E.Louis C.Clapton
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/13
Page_No: 42
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: H400

Record_ID: 265926
Entry_Number: 147
Year: 1907
Month: Sep
Day: 28
Surname: HALL
Forenames: Jane
Residence: Chepstow
Age_at_death: 87
Officiating_Minister: H B Parker Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/37
Page_No: 19
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: H400

Both their ages & addresses are good fits.

Thomas William Hall b 1858 Lydney, and family. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 02:01:23 +0000

Trying to trace Great Grandparents.

Married to Thomas William Hall
Est yr of birth 1858
Born Lydney

Thomas possibly living in household of James Morse (1861 census) but identification not certain.

Hi Jane, welcome to the forum.

Apologies if you already have this for Thomas, but LDS aka Familysearch gives the following which seems to fit; https://familysearch.org

1901, Gray Street, Canning Town, West Ham.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Hall Head M 43 LABORER SUGAR REFINERS. Lydney, Gloucestershire
Fanny Hall Wife F 43 Linderford, Gloucestershire
Annie Hall Daughter F 21 West Ham, Essex
Lilly Hall Daughter F 20 West Ham, Essex
Winifrrd Hall Daughter F 15 West Ham, Essex
Nelly Hall Daughter F 13 West Ham, Essex
Thomas Hall Son M 10 West Ham, Essex
May Hall Daughter F 5 West Ham, Essex
Edith Hall Daughter F 2 West Ham, Essex

Re Thomas's employment, my wife's ancestors also worked at the huge Tate & Lyle jam factory at Canning Town / Silvertown, Keillers was there too, you may find this background of interest.
http://www.thesugargirls.com/tatelyle/
Lots of period stories and photos here http://www.docklandsmemories.org.uk/stansgallery.htm
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/essex/vol6/pp76-89#h3-0002

Which seems to fit what you've already found, namely;

1861, Hut Hill Road, Lydney.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Hall Lodger M 48 Road Contractor. Northampton Blisworth,
Jane Hall Wife F 40 Road Contractors Wife. Lydney, Gloucestershire
Edwin Morse Son M 14 Work With Father. Lydney, Gloucestershire
John Hall Son M 10 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Sarah A Hall Daughter F 6 Lydney, Gloucestershire
Thomas Hall Son M 3 Lydney, Gloucestershire
James B Hall Son M 10M Lydney, Gloucestershire

-------------

HOWEVER, despite my extensive searching of this site's PRs, FreeBMD and GlosBMD sites, I cannot find a likely marriage for Thomas's parents Thomas and Jane. I wonder if this was because it happened out of this county ?. Thomas senior's birthplace is a small village on the important Grand Union canal, the site of a very (2 mile) long canal tunnel built c1805. I wonder if his own father maybe worked there as a navvy, given Thomas's own apparent wandering & roadworking lifestyle, indeed Thomas could have found wife Jane in Lydney via the canal via Stratford then into the Severn waterway ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blisworth_Tunnel
Unfortunately there are several Thomas Halls born c1811 in Northants..

More oddly, I'm totally unable to find any of their children's Baptisms in any of our local websites, very odd.... hence no consistent clues as to Jane's surname etc. I hope this is a silly oversight on my part, however at the moment it almost seems as if they're trying to avoid the official registration system !.

???

====================

When I first found the 1861 Census transcription above I assumed it was incomplete, and LDS had accidentally omitted the top line for the Head of the household, which according to Jane is "James Morse". (I saw such an error on another LDS transcription a few weeks ago).
Please can someone confirm if the actual Census image differs from the above transcription, thanks ?.

PS LDS also gave this baptism which MAY be relations, altho these names aren't rare in Northants;

Name Jane Hall
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Jan 1827
Christening Place Wellingborough, Northampton, England
Father's Name Thomas Hall
Mother's Name Jane

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

Mike Pinchin — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 20:20:27 +0000

Have you discounted this baptism from this site? Evidently the same Fanny found by Chris.

Record_ID 33161
Entry_Number 733
Year 1857
Month Mar
Day 24
Parents_Surname LEE
Child_Forenames Fanny
Fathers_Forenames Wil[lia]m
Mothers_Forenames Jane
Mothers_Surname
Residence LIttle Dean
Occupation Butcher
Officiating_Minister H M Willis Perp[etua]l Curate
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P110 IN 1/6
Page_Number 92
Parish_Chapel Littledean

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea (reply)

ChrisW — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 19:57:44 +0000

Hi Jane

There is a Fanny Lea with her family at Little Dean Hill on the 1861.

Have you checked her out?

Person 1
First Name Fanny
Last Name Lea
Birth Year 1857
Age 4
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Birth Place England
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Gender Female
Occupation Scholar
Condition Unmarried
Archive Reference RG09
Folio 107
Page 41
Piece Number 1756

Regards
Chris

Quaker Fanny Hall nee Lea

Jane Hall — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:31:17 +0000

Trying to trace Great Grandparents.

Fanny Lea & Thomas William Hall

1881 census Fanny aged 24
Living at Lower Grey Street, West Ham
Est. yr of birth 1857
Born Lydney (but later census suggest could have been Cinderford)

Married to Thomas William Hall
Est yr of birth 1858
Born Lydney

Thomas possibly living in household of James Morse (1861 census) but identification not certain.

Fanny was from a Quaker family (this confirmed by my late father & aunt.)

Family story was that she & Thomas eloped to Gretna Green & then went to live in London.

Have been unable to verify the elopement bit!

Not found any record of Fanny Lea's birth.

Please can anyone shed any light??