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<title>Forest of Dean FHT  Forum - Clearwell War Memorial</title>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all , I’ve now had confirmation from war records that Kenneth Roberts (Worgan )  was killed in action in May 1940 near Amiens France and is Burried in Abbeville military cemetery - I have row and number it says he was registered in Monmouth and resides in Gloucestershire and was born 1919 which is all correct - I sent for his birth certificate also - so although they have put him down as Sussex regiment , he was in the Dorset’s , thanks for all your help . Kind Regards</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51703</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 21 Nov 2019 15:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Worgan family</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the picture. I agree, that's a Dorset badge. But I think the evidence you have for the person you found buried in France is quite convincing. I wouldn't discount it. Maybe the regiment was recorded incorrectly. Getting a copy of his military record would probably sort this out but I'm not sure how you would do that. Maybe others here could help. I couldn't find anything more on Ancestry.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51697</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 16 Nov 2019 15:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can't post an email address on the forum and you haven't made yourself contactable so I can't send you an address. You can email me by clicking on the envelope next to my name in this post.</p>
<p>Or, if you go to the image, wherever you have posted it and right click on it and click on 'save image address' (might be different depending which browser you are using) and post the address here that will also work.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51695</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 16 Nov 2019 13:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ,if you send me you’re email address I’ll email you , I’m not sure how to do it on here</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51693</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 16 Nov 2019 12:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Worgan family</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you provide a link to the picture?</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51691</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 15 Nov 2019 14:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I now have a photo of Kenneth from my mother ( in grandads belongings ) the cap badge seems to show the Dorset regiment? I put it on ancestry UK to ask others . The Kenneth Roberts I found  burried in France was in the Sussex regiment so I’ll keep on searching ? ?</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51690</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2019 19:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Worgan family</dc:creator>
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<title>Worgan &amp; ROBERTS household, Clearwell, 1939 Register (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's taken a while as the FindMyPast website keeps stalling, presumably due to heavy demand at the start of this free access period, but no complaints as it's search engine worked perfectly and it's all free haha !</p>
<p>Here's the full 1939 Register entry for the above household. <br />
I've also downloaded the image of the Register page and will happily email it to anyone who asks.</p>
<p><span style="color:#006;"><br />
Worgan household, No 3 Temperance Cottages, Clearwell, West Dean R.D. </span></p>
<p><span style="color:#006;">First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number<br />
William Worgan 18 Feb 1881 Male Part Time Blacksmith Married 19 1<br />
Agnes Worgan 27 Jun 1876 Female Unpaid Household Duties Married 19 2<br />
Richard Roberts 26 Jun 1874 Male Cripple (Incapacitated) Single 19 3<br />
Kenneth Roberts 08 Mar 1919 Male Builders Labourer - 19 4</span></p>
<p>(No added notes or info in margins etc)</p>
<p><br />
Their neighbours are;</p>
<p><span style="color:#006;">Arthur &amp; Winifred Baker &amp; family, the Stores, Lower Clearwell, <br />
No 1 Temperance Cottages, Frank &amp; Emily Rosser &amp; family,<br />
No 2 T.C., Record is &quot;closed&quot;, but is clearly just the one person.<br />
No 4 T.C., James &amp; Alice Powell &amp; son Edward.<br />
Frederick &amp; Sarah Jane Jones &amp; family, Stark Farm. </span></p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51648</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Nov 2019 16:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although you may well be correct in George Pyner being Mabel ‘S father ? Agnes Roberts May not have got with William Tamalge Worgan until after Mabel . I definitely know he was the father of William my grandfather ( before marriage) to Agnes</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51646</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 07 Nov 2019 19:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Worgan family</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial, K ROBERTS, 1939 Register (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using today's free access to Ancestry and FindMyPast wesbites, I've just tried searching Kenneth in the 1939 Register, in the hope it might give a clue as to why he apparently joined the Sussex regiment, maybe he was living there ?. </p>
<p>First attempt using Ancestry, which is indeed offering free access for the Register, yet I couldn't find our man at all, but will try again later.</p>
<p>Using FindMyPast, using the exact same input data (name, birth year and place), I found our man straight away !  However the site's free access doesn't officially start until tomorrow, which I'd hoped was why I could not view the actual register image for him, but it seems the record is still &quot;locked&quot;. However the available info clearly shows he was known as ROBERTS, and was still at home in Clearwell at the outbreak of WW2.</p>
<p><br />
FindMyPast gave this hit from &quot;the Roberts household&quot;</p>
<p>Kenneth Roberts.   1919.   West Dean R.D. Gloucestershire England. No 3 Temperance Cottage.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51645</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 07 Nov 2019 17:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point Peter !</p>
<p>I think I'm right in saying these local memorials acroos the UK were produced on something of an ad-hoc unofficial basis, under the control of local government officers, with the names on the memorials supplied by the families and friends rather than from some official database, so some inconsistences and errors did creep in.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51644</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 07 Nov 2019 17:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes this is all correct</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51641</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 07 Nov 2019 15:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Worgan family</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning all, I have been reading through the previous comments so to clarify - Kenneth W Roberts was Mabel Roberts son . He was brought up by his grandparents William Talamge Worganand Agnes Roberts . They married eventually after having Mabel and William ( my grandfather) and went on to have Miriam . They lived at no 3 Temperance cottages . Mabel was in service and I’m told went on to have more children also ( adopted) . Kenneth was therefore born Roberts but brought up as Worgan . My grandfather and him brought up like brothers . My grandfather later moved next door to no 4 Temperance cottages . Kenneth was MIA and my grandfather tried for many years to find out where but to no avail . I really don’t know which regiment Kenneth joined it is only the fact of his middle name that made me think it could be him ?? Thankyou for all your interest</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51640</link>
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<pubDate>Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Worgan family</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A point that passed me by is the fact he is living with his grandparents which suggests Mabel had perhaps died. Which could explain why his name was put as Worgan on the memorial.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51637</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 17:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A thought, has anyone tried finding this K.W. Roberts in the 1939 register ?.<br />
It might give a clue as to why he was in the Sussex regiment.</p>
</blockquote><p>Chris did, further back up the thread. He was in Clearwell.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51636</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 17:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Peter,<br />
yes that all makes good sense.<br />
Glad you've managed to find some records for his soldiering, not easy for WW2 men.<br />
Maybe this is why the OP also focussed on this particular CWGC record.</p>
<p>A thought, has anyone tried finding this K.W. Roberts in the 1939 register ?.<br />
It might give a clue as to why he was in the Sussex regiment.</p>
<p>Thanks J.</p>
<p><br />
PS thanks to your prompt, I did revisit the GRO website and found the people #  I was unable to find when first looked a year or two ago, I can only assume they'd somehow been omitted from the early version of the site. So all good there, thanks.</p>
<p>#But not KW Roberts of course</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51635</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 17:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George PYNER</p>
<p>There is a Public Members Tree on Ancestry</p>
<p>George PYNER birth : 3 April 1872, Clearwell, Monmouthshire</p>
<p>parents: William Henry PYNER and Mary Elizabeth ROBERTS</p>
<p>On the 1911 census, George PYNER is living at 1 Railway Terrace, Nr Monmouth</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51634</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 15:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>MPGriffiths</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1901 Census Gloucestershire, Newland</p>
<p>Clearwell</p>
<p>Richard ROBERTS - Head : Single aged 27, Labourer in Sand Quarry (Worker) born Clearwell<br />
Agnes ROBERTS - Sister : Single aged 25 - born Clearwell<br />
Mabel ROBERTS - Niece : aged 5 - born Clearwell</p>
<p><br />
GRO Index</p>
<p>ROBERTS Mabel Annie  (Dash for mother's surname)<br />
1896<br />
J Qtr Monmouth Volume 11A Page 17  (baptism gives birth date as 16 February 1896)</p>
<p><br />
----</p>
<p><br />
Public Tree on Ancestry gives Mabel, 1911 census</p>
<p>at the home of Thomas J TEAGUE (Court Farm, Clearwell Glous)</p>
<p>Mabel ROBERTS - Servant - aged 15</p>
<p>----</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51633</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>MPGriffiths</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good spot Mike. Certainly appears to be.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51632</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if this is a sight of Mabel’s mother, Agnes:-</p>
<p>BNA Monmouthshire Beacon - Friday 29 September 1899</p>
<p>Coleford Petty Sessions, Tuesday</p>
<p>George Pyner, labourer, of Monmouth, was brought up on remand from the previous day on a charge of being in arrears to the extent of £2 2s., plus expenses, under a bastardy order obtained against him by Agnes Roberts on 24th August, 1897. Defendant said he was in the militia and had lately been in Chatham. He was going to work at Newport. He only had 12s. in his possession ; he was willing to pay that down and 5s. per week regularly afterwards, which would be 2s. on the arrears and 3s. on the order. Complainant agreed to accept the offer and defendant paid the 12s.</p>
<p>Again in 1907:-</p>
<p>BNA Gloucester Citizen - Wednesday 04 December 1907</p>
<p>Coleford Police Court</p>
<p>George Pyner, a Monmouth labourer, was summoned for being £4 12s. in arrears on an order made the Bench to pay 3s. 6d. week towards the illegitimate child of Agnes Roberts. —Defendant now promised 6s. a week until the arrears were paid, and this was accepted.</p>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 12:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Mike Pinchin</dc:creator>
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<title>Clearwell War Memorial (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff,</p>
<p>I've concluded this is our man.</p>
<p>The Army Roll of Honour lists the same K W Roberts (same service number) as living in Gloucestershire and a birth place of Monmouthshire (Clearwell coming under Monmouth at the time).</p>
<p>The grave record has him as being born 1919 (OK, he could have lied about his age) and there's only one birth record of a Kenneth W Roberts in 1919 who's mother's maiden name was Roberts also and that was registered in Monmouth.</p>
<p>Given that we can't seem to find a Kenneth Worgan anywhere and the connection between Kenneth W Roberts and the Worgan name, I think it would be reasonable to assume the Kenneth Worgan on the memorial is actually the Kenneth Roberts identified here. It would be good to get proof that Mabel was his mother though but that should be possible if someone gets a copy of the birth certificate.</p>
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<pubDate>Sun, 03 Nov 2019 08:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probinson</dc:creator>
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