My paternal grandmother's uncle, Thomas Rogers Gamage, was born on the "tenth day of June, in 1874." He names the Crown Inn as the place of his birth. According to him, the "imaginary line seperating Herefordshire and Gloucestershire runs through the upper right front corner room on the second floor where he first drew independent breath."

In 1954, when he wrote his memoirs, he relates that "the Crown Inn still stands in Hawthorn, not far from the hamlet of Cinderford in the Forest of Dean." He has even provided a picture.

Fast forward 51 years, I am searching for evidence of the Crown Inn. From the story he tells, my great-great-grandmother managed the Inn in 1874, whlie my great-great grandfather was involved in railway construction in the area.

The family name is Gamage or possible Gammage. I have seen it spelled both ways at different times.

sounds like the Crown Inn at Drybrook /(Puddlebrook) Hawthorns near the Euroclydon looking out over Lea Bailey and Hope Mansell...

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
co ords 364360,218415

If you look carefully on this mordern map
you will see the Hereford/Gloucester county boundary -marked as
a black chain line --.--.--.--.--.--.-- pass close to the buildings - pink rectangles - just above ( north) of the word Puddlebrook.
This is where the old Crown Inn was.

www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=51.8594&lon=
-2.5242&scale=25000&icon=x

The Mus(eum) marks where the Euroclydon is , the Dean Mechanical Organ collection is housed along side the Old folks home ( at the Euroclydon)

Forest Of Dean Mechanical Organ Museum Springfields, Hawthorns Cross, Drybrook, GL17 9BW.
Open 14:00 - 17:00, Tuesday & Thursday, April, May, July, August and September. Also open Easter Saturday & Monday.
Parties by arrangement all the year round (not Sundays). Admission £3.00 (£2.50 for OAPs).
Polyphons, DeCap Café Organ, Gasparini Fair Organ, & Chiappa piano, etc.

Contact: Wally or Gill Marfell, Tel: +44 (0)1594 542278

Associated Thread
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=1711#p1711

Name: Gamage, Tom Rogers
Record Type: Births
Quarter: September
Year: 1874
District: Ross
County: Gloucestershire Herefordshire Hereford and Worcester
Volume: 6a
Page: 462

1900 Manahattan New York
John H Gamage 1869
Annie Wife 1880
Mertil Dau 1895
Agnes (?) Dau 1899
Ruth Dau 1899
Elizabth Mother 1847
Richard Bro 1848
Albert Bro 1871
Thomas Bro 1873 Student
Agnes Sis 1883
James 1886

Emigrated 1884 ?

1910
Name: Tom R Gammage
Age in 1910: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Home in 1910: 14-Wd Kansas, Jackson, Missouri
Physician
married to Mabel (?)
Daughter Virginia 1905

1920
Name: Tom R Gammage
Age: 42 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Birthplace: England
Race: White
Home in 1920: Miami, Dade, Florida
Home owned: Own
Sex: Male
Marital status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Year of immigration: 1un
Mother's Birth Place: England
Father's Birth Place: England
Image: 350
Surgeon
married to Muriel
Daughter Virginia

Could this be a sibling of Thomas Rogers G. ?

Name: GAMAGE, Henry Edwin A R
Record Type: Births
Quarter: September
Year: 1872
District: Westbury on Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 228

It is possible that this could be Albert. I note that his name is listed Henry Edwin A. R. -- Henry for his grandfather? A. for Albert, possibly R. for Rogers? His marriage in 1903 to Edith Beniteau Anderson shows him listed as Albert E. Can't begin to imagine where the "Henry" may have gone to.

The time frame is about right, if you compare it to the Persian Monarch records and the 1900 US census, Manhattan, New York.

Hi Shari,

The information Slowhands has given you about the location of The Crown Inn is "spot on" as usual. Also your information about the Gloucestershire/Herefordshire boundary line is correct.

Some background information that may interest you ...

The immediate area is locally called Hawthorns Cross Drybrook probably because of the crossroads close by (Drybrook to Bailey Lane End road and the Puddlebrook to Hope Mansell road)

I believe the Euroclydon was built by an owner? of the Trafalgar Colliery and has a tower at one end from the top of which he could reputedly see the colliery. I can't vouch for this as I haven't been to the top of the tower since I was a teenager (long time ago!). It became an hotel for a number of years before that closed and it became a home for the elderly.

The Crown has been a private house since about 1970 but outwardly it has changed little. That date is only an educated guess as I have known two of the owners since that time. It was very popular pub in its day partly perhaps because of the boundary which ran through the property. One bar was in Herefordshire and the other in Gloucestershire and because these counties had differing licensing laws the Herefordshire bar closed later than the Gloucestershire bar. There is no prize for guessing which bar was used the most! I seem to remember that there was a skittle alley in a building at the back. Although I can picture the last landlord I can't remember his name but I'm sure my husband will know if you think it will help you backtrack.

So the Crown Inn has survived? Uncle Tom had included a picture, probably taken in 1954. To quote from page 1 of his book, "Once again during this summer of 1954 I plan to sleep in the room of my birth when I visit England as I have done almost annually since my retirement."

He says that his birth certificate mentions both Herefordshire and Gloustershire, but that "no one took the trouble to record on which side of the line the natal bed lay."

Thank you for your posting and for sharing the information that you have regarding the Crown Inn.

Since I was a child and first saw this book written by my grandmother's uncle, England was the only far away place that held any interest for me. My Gamage/Gammage line comes through my Dad's mother.

I have also been researching the other side of my Dad's family and got to spend two days in Missouri this August. The family owned a large farm and lived on it for about 100 years. I was able to visit the family cemetery and see the graves of my great grandfather, his parents, his grandparents and his great grandfather, along with some siblings and aunts and uncles.

Thomas (Bennett) Brain ( b. Ruardean circa. 1834) was the owner of the Euroclydon, built about 1866,and Trafalgar Colliery

In 1871 Census for Hope Mansell, Here. It looks like Joseph Roberts is the nearby Inn keeper to T. B Brain ( assumed at the Euroclydon)

By 1891 The Crown is home to John Sharpe , Inn Keeper

Not sure what ties in with your documents ( I can sense some envy that you have such a family book), If the Gamage family were in the area in 1874, this ties in with the construction of this short single track railway and its tunnels.

Mitcheldean Road and Forest of Dean Junction Railway
3 1/4 miles allowed by Act of Parliament in 1871
Construction began in 1874

Route from Whimsey north to the Gloucester/Hereford line at Lea.
Tunnels at Drybrook and Euroclydon, target iron ore haulage from Drybrook and
connection to the South Wales routes.

Robert Sharpe & Sons
Railway Contractors
1 Victoria Square, Westminster,London

available at the Public Records Office in Kew, London
RAIL 494/13 Notice to Mitcheldean Road and Forest of Dean Junction Railway Company from W Moon (solicitor for John Simmons and Robert Sharpe, Lincoln's Inn Fields, London) of filing of petition in London Court of Bankruptcy and claim of J Simmon and company to contractor's plant; with account 1875 Nov

RAIL 494/17 Notice to Mitcheldean Road and Forest of Dean Junction Railway Company from W Moon of filing of John Simmons and Robert Sharpe's petition for bankruptcy 1875 Nov

RAIL 494/31 Garlant v Mitcheldean Road and Forest of Dean Junction Railway Company: case for opinion of James Austie concerning contractor's plant on land rented by John Simmons and Robert Sharpe 1879 June

railway absorbed into Great Western Railway (GWR) 1880

seen also referred to as Mitcheldean and Whimsey branch

the Construction Co had numerous rail contracts across the UK and also in the Americas.

http://www.sungreen.co.uk/Drybrook/Drybrook%201920s.htm

May

In the "image" above , it refers to a small pub and Hawthorns Cross - looks like the Crown Inn to me - can you confirm ?

S

Shari

A picture you will find of interest is in our own Photo Gallery provided by Sam Hale. It is a view taken from the top of the railway tunnel looking towards the Eurocyldon before Drybrook quarry was started.

http://forest-of-dean.net/gallery/hale_people/pages/page_58.html

It was very interesting reading the snippets from your Uncle Tom memoirs about the times when he was living in the Forest and that you also have a picture of the Crown Inn. If there is any of this you would like us to add on the Website please forward it on to me as we are always looking for additional material to add to our Photo Gallery and Stories and Articles sections.

Photo Gallery
http://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/photo-gallery

Stories and Articles
http://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/stories-and-articles

Uncle Tom relates that in 1874 his father (Deodatus)was in the constrution business and had taken on a contract relating to the railroad. He mentions a link from the Mitcheldean Road Station to Cinderford and into Gloucestershire.

He says his mother operated the Inn while the family lived there and that father's draft horses pastured in nearby fields. Tom says his father bought these properties -- but who can be sure?

Bottom line on this part of the story is that about eighty of the draft horses died and the project went "belly-up" and the family went to London.

Hi

There seem to be many truths here and records to bear out the financial failings of the project. The line ran from Mitcheldean Road Station , on the Gloucester -Ross-Hereford line south to Whimsey just outside Cinderford.

From there the line connects onto the Forest lines down to the River Severn and the ports along the severn estuary and the South Wales coast.

Considering how briefly the family were in the area there are a fair number of records to cross reference the family history handed down. Treasure that document :-)

and you only asked about The Crown !

S

Inside the front cover of the book, titled "Starting Below Scratch" Uncle Tom has written; "To John, 'Lest We Forget,' Your brother, Tom. - Feb. 6, 1955"

My grandmother got the book from her father, John, and I got it from her.

It has offered many clues in my search for my ancestors.

I have emailed pictures of the Crown Inn and my great-great grandparents to be posted in the photo gallery.

Thank you for everything that you have added.

Slowhands,

Confirmed as the Crown Inn, about halfway up on the left hand edge of the photo. Its a back view of the pub. I always admire the beautiful stonework in this building when I travel that way to Ross. The front elevation is almost on the edge of the Drybrook to Lea Bailey road.

May,

I got excited when I saw your post and wondered how you had seen my picture so soon and then I realized that you were replying to a earlier posting from "slowhands" about a ink he had provided.

I have e-mailed 2 .jpg files, with a picture of my great-great grandparents and a picture of the Crown Inn, both taken from Uncle Tom's book.

Shari (and one time posted as Sharo)

Shari

I read with interest your messages about the Crown Inn, Hawthorns. I know a little about the pub because my husband lived there with his parents and brother when it ceased to be a pub and became a private residence. The last landlord was my father in law Herbert (Bert) Marshall and they moved away in about 1970.

The pub was always refered to as the "Hawthorns" by the locals, never the Crown.

It is true that the county border did at one time run through the building, straight from the front door along the hall to the right of the main bar and into the kitchen. Looking at the building from the front, left of the door was in Herefordshire and the right was in Gloucestershire.

A stream runs under the pub cellar floor, always keeping the beer cool even in the hottest weather.

I hope this helps a little with your research.

Ann

May
I thought I would put you out of your misery the name of the last landlord of The Crown Inn was Herbert Marshall (Bert) my father in law.

Ann

Hi,

I appreciate that this posting is a few years old but came across it while searching the forum for 'Crown Inn'. I have a death certificate for a relative, Mark Malson. In the "when and where" died section, it states that he died at the Crown Inn, Hope Mansell, Hereford. The cause of death "Alcohol Delirium Tremors, certified". He died on the 1st April 1874 (not long before Shari's ancestor was born there) at the age of 30.

Unless there is another Crown Inn in the vicinity I'm pretty sure that this is the same inn. I was wondering if anyone knew if there was lodgings at the Inn at this time - Mark was lodging with his brother and family during the 1871 census, but I guess I was trying to build a picture of whether he would likely to walk to the Inn to be drinking in the Crown on a Wednesday (his 1871 census record shows he was living at 'Tump Hill) or whether he could be lodging at the Inn and it was convenient?

I was also wondering if, due to his young age and as this is in a public house, if there would likely be an 'inquest' into his death?