Do any of the good folks on the Forum have ideas on who owned, and who staffed, the Longhope Bakery from around 1850 please?

The name Harry Clayson has been mentioned to me for the 1950s when I think the bakery closed. Sissy Clayson was, I believe, the daughter of Harry. Sissy married a Mr Richards. I think Mr Richards a mechanic at one of the garages in Huntley?

Green's Bakery in Huntley employed Harry after the Longhope closure. Did the Green's own the Longhope Bakery? Or did they purchase it and close it down? Perhaps it closed because modernisation after 1945 meant that this area could be supplied with bread and cakes from Huntley?

I am told that Green's persisted with horse delivery into the 1950s but I am thinking that vans were being used from 1935 onwards. I know that a horse and delivery cart were available in 1947 but I do not know who, if anybody, used this.

There was also a three wheeled delivery bike - I do not have details, nor who rode it, nor where it was used.

For Longhope Bakery I recall the names Gingell and Williams mentioned years ago.

The Green's owned a cottage that Harry lived in. I do not know the arrangement - rent or work in lieu of some rent? nor do I know the time span that Harry was in the cottage. This was Ivy Cottage in Huntley.

Green's Bakery closed in the early 1960s. I do not have date, nor do I know what became of Harry Clayson and other staff. I recall the names but not details of staff including the Williams, Percy Hall, Fred Foley and Percy Open.

The Green's were taking in baker's boys and future apprentices through the orphanage at Ashley Down. Perhaps the girls working in the shop and as servants came from here. I do not know if this was common practice at that time.

Going off track somewhat, I believe that Ivy Cottage was rented to a Bryn Davies and family after Harry left. Bryn may have been a driver for Red and White buses passing through Huntley - this is my childhood memory.

My first post on the Forum - perhaps I have got carried away with too many questions!

A name to explore might be William Armstrong BRADLEY:-

BNA Gloucester Citizen – Friday 21 April 1939 reported the funeral of Mr W.A.BRADLEY (74) of Sunnyside, Little London, Longhope. One of the bearers was Mr Harry CLAYSON.

BNA Gloucester Citizen – Thursday 20 April 1939 reported a tribute to Mr W.A BRADLEY (74) of Longhope – a former baker and grocer.

GR 1911 Census, Longhope,

William A. BRADLEY. 46, Mar, Grocer and general dealer,Employer, b. Mitcheldean.

GR 1901 Census, Little London,

William A. BRADLEY, 36, Mar, Grocer and shopkeeper,Employer, b. Mitcheldean

GR 1891 Census, Longhope, Little London,

William Armstrong BRADLEY, Mar, 26, Grocer, Baker and General Dealer, b. Mitcheldean.

There is also a report in the BNA Gloucester Journal - Saturday 20 February 1937 concerning the somewhat distressing death of an “employee” at Green’s Bakery in which Percy OPEN and Frederick FOLEY are mentioned. This is too long to transcribe but I can download it if of interest.

Hello Mike

Thank you for this. It appears that my recollection, or searching for names, is along the right tracks but fell short of Mr Bradley. The download would be most welcome. I do not know how you do this, neither do I know the term BNA. Is this a subscription service for newspapers?

Again many thanks.

The BNA is the British Newspaper Archive. It is possible to free-search it but you need a subscription to see the full details. To get a download to you I would need a suitable email address sent to me via the blue envelope next to my user name. If you put this in a public post the whole world will be sending you home improvement, solar panel and PPI adverts before the day is out. Or worse.

Thanks Mike
An excellent reply. I appreciate your comments and will send you an email.

I guessed that there would be a private mail system but as a first timer I am learning about all this!

From GR this could be Frederick FOLEY’s death,

First Name FREDERICK H
Last Name FOLEY
Gender Male
Year 1943
Birth Year 1918
Birth Month
Birth Day
District GLOUCESTER RURAL
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Volume 6A
Event Quarter 2
District Number
Page 371
Line Number 68
Entry Number

From the same source that of Percy OPEN?

First Name PERCY
Last Name OPEN
Gender Male
Year 1970
Birth Year 1906
Birth Month 6
Birth Day 25
District FOREST OF DEAN
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Volume 7B
Event Quarter 1
District Number
Page 1127
Line Number 97
Entry Number

In GR 1911 Census, Huntley,

Joseph GREEN, Head, 56, Mar, Grocer & Baker, Employer, b. Middlesex, St Pancras.
Anna Rosina, Wife, 54, Mar, b. Mon. Newport
Herbert John, Son, S, 28, Baker, b. Glos, Huntley
Charles Henry, Son, S, 19, Baker, b. Glos, Huntley
Francis Luther, Son, S, 17, Grocer & Baker, b. Glos, Huntley
Dorothy Ann, Daur, S, 15, Servant, b. Glos, Huntley
Percy George HALL, Servant, S, 15, Baker’s Apprentice, b. Glos, Bristol

29 years the marriage, 7 children, 5 living, 2 died.

Joseph GREEN is trackable in Census as a baker in Huntley back to and including 1881.
It also looks like Joseph did not learn a lesson from this report in the BNA Gloucester Journal – Saturday 26 May 1906,

Joseph GREEN, baker, Huntley, was summoned by Gerald SHARPE, Factory Act Inspector, for having employed Stanley PAYNE, aged 15, contrary to the Act.

Joseph GREEN’s death from GR (confirmed by a report of his death – 11 January 1930, aged 75 - in the BNA Gloucester Citizen – Monday 13 January 1930),

First Name JOSEPH
Last Name GREEN
Gender Male
Year 1930
Birth Year 1855
Birth Month
Birth Day
District WESTBURY ON SEVERN
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Volume 6A
Event Quarter 1
District Number
Page 337
Line Number 42
Entry Number

Anna Rosina GREEN’s death from GR (confirmed by a report of her funeral -20 May 1931 - in the BNA Gloucester Citizen – Thursday 21 May 1931),

First Name ANNA R
Last Name GREEN
Gender Female
Year 1931
Birth Year 1856
Birth Month
Birth Day
District WESTBURY ON SEVERN
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Volume 6A
Event Quarter 2
District Number
Page 295
Line Number 81
Entry Number

Perhaps Francis Luther took over the business (maybe with his brothers – there is a reference in the BNA to a GREEN BROS of Huntley at the right time) following the death of his parents. This might be his death from GR,

First Name FRANCIS LUTHER
Last Name GREEN
Gender Male
Year 1988
Birth Year 1893
Birth Month 7
Birth Day 20
District GLOUCESTER
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Volume 22
Event Quarter 2
District Number
Page 1810
Line Number
Entry Number

Hello Mike
This certainly gets me thinking. I have an old family photocopy of the 1901 Census and that lists an Annie Rosina Green who was a daughter working as an "assistant grocer and baker". So I assume that Annie had left by 1911 perhaps to set up her own grocery or bakery, or perhaps for a married life. I wonder if she did not move far - people did not in those days. Might she have become involved with the Longhope Bakery?

As for the 26 May 1906 case, this is not an item I ever heard anything about. If you able to forward details that would be greatly welcomed.

I am now wondering if Fred Foley and Percy Open died of natural causes or whether the death was work related. I recall a suggestion that flour caused chest problems and the atmosphere breathed in when working in a bakery was not wholesome. Reflecting on this, years ago one made childhood glue from flour and water, so there must be a risk that flour damaging the lining of the lungs. However, I am not a medical man so cannot comment with knowledge on this matter.

The reference to the "Green Bros"? Was this in the obituary, or notice of death of Joseph, or in a separate article?

Please keep up the good work with your responses.

Many thanks
hawkyboy

Annie Rosina Green married on 24.8.1910 to Harold Gilbert Stevens of 9, Worcester Street, Gloucester. Harold Gilbert Stevens was a house decorator. From parish records on this site. Her father's occupation was transcribed as "Glazier?" but the image of the register reads "Grocer". So she apparently did not go to another bakery.

Thank you Harry for this.

I have pondered regarding conversations years back and this now falls into place. You are spot on in your research. Indeed, this address became a decorators shop, selling paint and wallpaper is what I now recall being told. One would hope that being Gloucester there may be an old photo of Worcester Street showing this shop. I can but hope that one will turn up!

Just to extend things at Longhope as far as 1946,

BNA Gloucester Citizen – Thursday 21 March 1946,

East Dean R.D.C, nominations,
Longhope (two seats): Oswald Cadogan BRADLEY, baker and confectioner……….

And two entries from the National Probate Calendar which might be of interest,

National Probate Calendar 1939,

BRADLEY William Armstrong of Sunnyside Little London Longhope Gloucestershire died 15 April 1939 Probate Gloucester 15 June to Annie Elizabeth Bradley widow Oswald Cadogan Bradley baker and Percy Windham Probert post office overseer.
Effects £3853 19s 8d.

National Probate Calendar 1930,

GREEN Joseph of Huntley Gloucestershire died 11 January 1930 Probate Gloucester 28 May to Charles Henry Green and Francis Luther Green bakers and grocers.
Effects £3132 12s 3d.

£3132 might be upwards of £110,000 in today’s terms but it is difficult to assess what this really means – I’m not sure that sum would get you much of a house in Huntley now.

Hello Mike. Thank you for this.

After a lifetime working it is not a lot of money to leave. Of course, better than many folks and far better than a life in the Workhouse. But on reflection this does tie in with what I am picturing about the family. My inkling is that money was not the only driving force - religious beliefs and charitable beliefs were. These do sound unlikely in the light of what we now know, which raises some interesting questions.

As you will have gathered I am new to all this. Hence when you mention probate does this list all the details of the deceased assets? Or would one go the Will for this?

Of course this was a long time ago in relation to my memory, but I do not recall ever hearing the name Bradley. This might sound like a strange remark but numerous surnames have been mentioned in recent years and it is surprising how many ring a bell. I may not be able to place that bell, but it does ring!

The Green's ran a bakery and grocery. I am wondering if the bakery and grocery were separate businesses in Longhope. If so, I may have heard of the name of the Grocer. I do not know who the grocer was. I am wondering if your excellent knowledge of the area can answer this one?

This might be a significant date,

The London Gazette is the official vehicle for legal notices/appointments etc. It is freely available to search on-line. On 29 April 1960 it published a notice concerning the liquidation of GREEN BROS of Huntley:-

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/42021/page/3062

The National Probate Calendar is available on such sites as Ancestry. It is just a list of probates or administrations granted and contains no more details than I have posted already. Although Ancestry is a subscription site it occasionally has free weekends – attention to these is usually posted on this site. However, you can get the same information for free by searching the site below. The relevant page(s) of the Calendar will come up,

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

(may have to paste this link - seems to be a problem with it)

For a fee a will can be provided. It looks like Joseph GREEN did leave a will or the record would have mentioned a Grant of Administration rather than probate.

There are some interesting photos on this site,

http://www.forestprints.co.uk/bygone_forest_of_dean.htm

Go to the Huntley page, look at Huntley Post Office circa 1923 and note the windows and position of the sign. Then go to Huntley Village circa 1925 View No. 5. In this latter photo you can clearly see the Post Office right in the middle. It might be that my eyes are playing tricks but I’m sure it says GREEN over the door of the house/shop on the far left. The 1911 Census shows that there was only one schedule between the GREENs and the Post Office.

On the Longhope page there is a picture of W.A.BRADLEY’s shop in Longhope. Clearly he is operating a drapery but there is what appears to be part of the same set-up on the left which looks like something else. I cannot make out what it says above this part – General Provisioner?

(Later note:- Found a better copy on this site. It say General Warehousemen). Perhaps W.A BRADLEY had more then one shop.

http://www.forestpictures.co.uk/page23.htm

Sissy Clayson ( my mother Sylvia Clayson was married Bernard Richards yes he was a mechanic, still in the village of Huntley. I remember we lived in Ivy Cottage until late 1960'S the cottge was owned by Mrs Green. I remember that it was at one time a bakery.there was a huge bricked up fireplace where the ovens would have been.

Hello Wendy
Are you suggesting that there was an oven in Ivy Cottage? Or do I misunderstand?

I have clear memories of Ivy Cottage from 1973 onwards and there were no signs of any oven then. This was my introduction to the building trade - the tenant (perhaps Mr Bryn Davies and family?)had left and the cottage was empty. New floors and wood burning boiler and other works were done.

Are you able to enlighten me on the oven. For example, if an oven was there where was it located?

It is good to hear that your mother was a Sylvia. I have asked people if Sissy was a real name because it sounds strange to me. Everyone has always replied "Yes, I suppose so!"

Searching the Wills index under Beneficiaries and Others gives us the following details

GREEN Anna Rosina Beneficiary Wife
STEPHENS Annie Rosina Beneficiary, Daughter
GREEN Charles Henry Beneficiary Executor Son
GREEN Dorothy Ann Beneficiary Daughter
GREEN Francis Luther Beneficiary, Executor, Son
WADESON H H Witness
GREEN Herbert John Beneficiary, Son
PHILLIPS John Beneficiary
OPEN Percy Witness

Looking at the Will Joseph leaves the following

£400 to Herbert his son
£200 to Annie his daughter
£300 to Dorothy his daughter
£300 to Charles his son
£300 to Francis his son
£25 to John Phillips, his baker
Household goods etc to his wife Annie

Another interesting detail is "I devise my dwellinghouse, shop, bakehouse and carthouse situate in High Street & Ley Road, Huntley aforesaid to my sons Charles and Francis"

The Will goes on to mention "a stone building roofed with red tiles situate adjoining my land in Ley Road and some 40 acres of land"

Hello Mike
You are a star coming up with this, but for me this is a conundrum.

I was brought up believing the business was sold - certainly the bakery side. This was plausible because this was the domain of Charlie Green, my grandfather. He died around Feb 1959 and the bakery and rounds were sold to Wonderloaf - or so I was regularly told by my grandmother. This pre dates the liquidation. But I wonder if Charlie had sold up before he died, during 1958 is a possibility.

But the selling up, and any links with Longhope Bakery, are unknown areas to me.

The business had vans. and I do not know if these were sold or transferred to the grocery business. The bakery and grocery were separate but inter linked businesses.

I am wondering if things went rapidly down hill from 1958-9, or if Wonderloaf were just buying up a local competitor to close it down, or run it into the ground.

Equally, the liquidation may have been for the grocery business. This was the domain of the other brother, Frances Luther, known as "Santy". I sense that Charlie had little input into this - the bakery side was his forte, or responsibility.

After liquidation, I think a Mr and Mrs Brown bought the business. I am guessing the liquidator put the business to auction. I do not think the bakery operated thereafter, which again ties in with the Wonderloaf story. On reflection, there would have been a local demand for bread and cakes, and people did rate highly the quality of the baking.

So one of the next steps is does anyone know if my recollection of Mr and Mrs Brown is correct?

Thank you again for your help.

Hi Wendy
In my excitement at receiving your post I forgot to thank you for it, hence this post.

Any memories that you have of this era would be greatly welcomed.

Mrs Green was my grandmother. I will diplomatically refer to "Granny Green" as a village character. At the time you refer to she was living at Chapel House, Birdwood. I am wondering if she rode her bike to collect the rent on Ivy Cottage? Or perhaps a cheque was put in the post?

There was along running dispute behind the scenes regarding the Council, the Church and others, and Ivy Cottage was getting drawn into this. I will not bore you with details but I wondered if this rings any bells regarding security of tenancy, or any pressure to seek alternative accommodation? Or perhaps Mr Richards might recall some of this?

Hello Mike.

I do not recall what the shops looked like. We lived in Huntley 30 years ago but I cannot recall the arrangement of the buildings. When you refer to the 1925 photo are you saying that it is an ivy clad house located between Greens on the left and the Post Office on the right?

If so, my recollection is that this house belonged to the Greens. I am suggesting it functioned as the farm house for land down Grange Court Lane. I am told this was 49 acres and this is where the horses were kept, and later pigs and sheep. There was no farm house on the land, so I assume this was a number of adjacent, or nearby, fields purchased by Joseph. Why he moved into farming in addition to the bakery and grocery is a mystery to me. They are totally different lines of work.

Thank you for persisting with your research. The more the merrier!

Hello Mike
Thanks for this one - I meant to comment on the General Warehouseman. Whilst the term is not one that I can define, it would appear that this included groceries. That is what the window display and advert suggests to me. Hence I assume this would have been deemed the grocery in Longhope? If so, one assumes that Mr Bradley had a bakery located in a separate building at another address, or round the back of these shops?

Hello dink999 and thank you for this helpful addition to my mysteries and musings.

Joseph leaving different sums to Herbert and Annie ties in with vague recollections- there was to be a settlement agreed between them.

My recollection of the land is slightly out - I had recollections of 49 acres attached to the business. But this is the first evidence that I have seen that any land at all did exist. I have often dismissed this thought because it is an unusual add on to a bakery and grocery business.

Indeed, the other 9 acres may have existed and been purchased after Joseph's death. I believe that the farm prospered through WW2. I have been told that an orchard existed just inside Grange Court Lane opposite the bakery. There are memories of the Greens having this in around 1947. Perhaps this was the 9 acres?

The Ley Lane reference is, I assume, to what we currently know as Grange Court Lane? Or might it be off this? If so the buildings were along on the left of Grange Court Lane when turning in off the A40. This would then be the stone building referred to in the will. There was no farm house on this land even though it was run as a farm. So I assume that Joseph purchased fields when they became available. The eldest son, Herbert, subsequently became the farmer - perhaps he always had an interest in farming rather than baking and groceries. Perhaps Joseph bought the land with the intention of his son farming it? Herbert's farm house was, I believe, the house on the main road. I have responded to the kind postings from Mike regarding the ivy clad house. I think this was, or became, the farm house. However the Will says this was left to the other sons.

Another grey area might be the Head Baker, John Phillips. I wonder if he came from an orphanage and Joseph was recognizing this in his Will. My intuition is that John lived on the premises and might have had any other home. I never heard of any family, but there may be good people on this Forum who can guide me further on this.

Thanks again for your reply.

Just to clarify, from GR 1911 Census,

Schedule 25 is the Post Office.

Schedule 26 is (living alone):-
Louisa HARRY, Head, 72, Widow, Old Age Pensioner, b. London, Stepney

Schedule 27 is the GREEN household.

The BNA Gloucester Chronicle Saturday 16 February 1918 announces the death of Louisa HARRY of Ivy Cottage Huntley on 12th February.

There are about a dozen mentions of Ivy Cottage, Huntley in the BNA in the period 1900 to 1950 and it is clear that there were at least two of them and, possibly, three. One was “set back from the road from Huntley to Tibberton” (towards Solomon’s Tump Farm); another was at Northend near Huntley Manor. The house between the PO and the GREENs (appropriately covered in ivy) looks like a third.

Searching the net for Ivy Cottage Huntley produces some photographs from modern Estate Agents and property sites. None of them look like the house in the photo.

This subject is becoming more and more intriguing.

Hello Mike, thanks again for your response.

I can only chip in pieces of info and see what happens. Joseph came from London and I do not know why he settled in Huntley. Equally, a typical London background would not have made him an ideal person to go farming in a significant way for the era we are considering.

It is known that Joseph had connections with an orphanage. Hence he may have been an orphan settling in the community. Equally Louisa Harry may have come from an orphanage and be living in the Green's accommodation. Or she may have settled from London in connection with Joseph.

The Ivy Cottage that is my particular interest is the black and white cottage a couple of dwellings to the left of the butchers on the main road. The property to the right of the Greens clad in ivy on your photo does interest me. The Greens almost certainly owned this by the 1930s. I do not know the name of this home - is this also an Ivy Cottage?

Wendythewife may hold a key here for she lived in the Ivy Cottage down the side lane to the left of the butchers. If there were an oven here then that adds a further twist to the story. This might also suggest that Harry Clayson was baking there for the Greens.

Joseph's Will refers to a house and I was assuming this is the one beside the Greens. It might be that instead this reference is to the Ivy Cottage near the butchers. I say this because years ago I think the property to the right of the Greens was viewed by them as an extension of their business and not a separate dwelling. There are recollections of family and staff lived behind the Greens, above the Greens and to the right of the Greens.

My problem is trying to piece everything together, but you are doing brilliantly!

This is beginning to look like a severe outbreak of Ivy Cottages:

There is the one at Northend on the Newent Road. Probably not relevant to this query.

There is the one by the Butcher’s. Looking on Google Maps the sign on the wall is a bit blurred but almost certainly is Ivy Cottage.

GR 1911 Census identifies another one in North Road, occupied by a Frederick Thomas RUCK, gardener.

There is one in Solomon's Tump Lane - still called Ivy Cottage.

There is the one next to the Post Office on the main road.

I imagine it is possible that Louisa HARRY had moved to another property owned by the GREENs before her death in 1918. The house she occupied in 1911 is nowadays identified as Ivy House on Google Maps. Intriguingly the house on the left (presumably the GREEN’s former shop?) has a sign on the door which is mostly unreadable but says PULL TO OPEN at the bottom. There is also a logo unfamiliar to me.

Hi Mike
I feel like a Simpson's moment saying "Doh!". I had not seen a photo before but it is now logical. The ivy clad property next to the Greens was called Ivy House because it is covered with ivy!

Perhaps this was once called Ivy Cottage and got changed to Ivy House. Who knows?

This was owned by the Greens as far as I can establish. I am guessing this was the house in Joseph's Will.

Ivy Cottage by the butchers was owned by the Greens, but I think this was by Charlie Green and not inherited from Joseph. This is the cottage in wendythewife's post.

Hopefully wendythewife will come back and enlighten me. The next stage for me is if wendy can recall details of the oven, or fireplace, or even the internal layout. I am wondering if this was a bakery supplementing the one behind the grocery. The long shot would be if Harry Clayson set up a bakery here in competition with the Greens. But if he was a tenant in the Green's home the chances of this are remote.

Perhaps to muddy the water even further there were properties on the opposite side of the main road. Today this constitutes three properties. Certainly in the 1960s all was owned by the Greens. I do not know when these were purchased by the Greens nor if they had a commercial role. The stocks were outside the main property and these were move some decades back. I do not know why this was.

The land at the rear and side of these properties is the recreation ground. I do not know who owned this land before the recreation ground was established. Perhaps the Greens?

This looks like it. It's a big fireplace.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-30072016.html

Hello Mike
As a teenager I never gave this any thought. But now it is pointed out it does seem a big fireplace for a small cottage. On reflection, an enormous heating potential in an era when people did not have high temperatures and high levels of heating.

In defense of my lack of knowledge, I never saw any ovens so I am guessing they were removed before I was visiting there.

It is fascinating what one picks up on this Forum!

I will chance my arm a little further! Are there any old photos of this Ivy Cottage? I would be fascinated to see any that do exist.

Many thanks to one and all.

Ref the above mention of GINGELL at Longhope Bakery, I've just found this same family, Longhope bakers c1900, while researching another post, please see here; http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=46982