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I am completely new to this, I always wanted to create a Family Tree for my Husband, but do not have so many facts.
I know my husbands mother was a daughter from Dorothy Walpole-Wintle 1894-1975 married to Henry Hansell.
Grandparents were Ane Elizabeth Davis married to Francis Wintle, who run the Brewery.

Thats all I have and it is very confusing. Is there anybody who could help me to get all this names and dates in order?

Thanks to Amanda Woolley my husband saw for the first time some on the Forest of Dean Family History Trust pictures (Page48) of his Greatgrandmother and Grandmother as a Baby.

Thank you for all the information and pictures you could send me.

regards
Gabriella Dormer

8947 views

Hi Gabriella

Is this the marriage of Henry (Harry on Index?) and Dorothy?

From FreeBMD: https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Marriages Mar 1928

Hansell Harry Z Wintle Marylebone 1a 971
Wintle Dorothy W Hansell Marylebone 1a 971

Possible children, one in Middlesex and two in Gloucestershire.

Births Mar 1930
Hansell Ann E Wintle Cheltenham 6a 563

Births Sep 1934
Hansell Inez E Wintle Hendon 3a 645

Births Mar 1937
Hansell Francis Wintle Cheltenham 6a 603

Will come back to this later!

Regards
Chris

8932 views

Francis Wintle and Ann Elizabeth Davis married at St Katherine's Church, Matson, Gloucester in 1892.

From Gloucestershire BMD Indexes:

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MarriageSearch.aspx

Photo of church:

https://www.achurchnearyou.com/matson-st-katharine/

-----------------------------------------------

Record_ID: 42769
Entry_Number: 284
Year: 1868
Month: Dec
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Francis
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Mary Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Mitcheldean
Occupation: Malster
Officiating_Minister: James Davies Rector of Abbenhall
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: [Son of]
Notes:
Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 36
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: W534

1871 Census

Street Marion Street
Parish Mitcheldean
Town
City
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 30
Municipal Ward
Parliamentary Borough
Registration District Westbury on Severn
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Person 1
First Name Alice
Last Name Trigg
Birth Year 1854
Age 17
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Servant
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602
Person 2
First Name Mary Jane
Last Name Trigg
Birth Year 1856
Age 15
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Servant
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602
Person 3
First Name Francis
Last Name Wintle
Birth Year 1869
Age 2
Birth Place England
Birth Town Mitcheldean
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household Son
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602
Person 4
First Name Kate
Last Name Wintle
Birth Year 1867
Age 4
Birth Place England
Birth Town Mitcheldean
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602
Person 5
First Name Mary Jane
Last Name Wintle
Birth Year 1835
Age 36
Birth Place England
Birth Town Leonard Stanley, Glos
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602
Person 6
First Name Sophia
Last Name Wintle
Birth Year 1865
Age 6
Birth Place England
Birth Town Mitcheldean
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602
Person 7
First Name Thomas
Last Name Wintle
Birth Year 1834
Age 37
Birth Place England
Birth Town Mitcheldean
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 15
Page 21
Piece Number 2602

(c) brightsolid online publishing ltd

Could you please confirm (or otherwise!) that I have the right family.

Do you have any Census data for the family please? I don't want to duplicate any info you already have!

Chris

8720 views

I think this could be the baptism of Thomas. Mother's name Sophia and he called one of his daughters by the same name.

Record_ID: 42164
Entry_Number: 479
Year: 1833
Month: Dec
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Sophia Harris
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Mitchel Dean
Occupation: Cordwainer
Officiating_Minister: George Cox Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 220 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 60
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: W534

***
Can anyone spot a marriage for Thomas Wintle and a Mary Jane please?
Can anyone find Thomas in 1861 please?
***

Thanks
Chris

8675 views

GR 1861 Census, Leonard Stanley, Stroud,

Transcribed by GR as WINKER

Mary Jane COLEMAN, Head, Un, 26, no occupation, b. Gloshire, Leonard Stanley [corrected from Mar]
Caroline BRYANT, Niece, 12, Gloshire, Leonard Stanley
Thomas WINTLE, Visitor, Un, 27, Miller and Maltster, Gloshire, Mitcheldean

It looks like Francis’s mother was born in Leonard Stanley,

GR 1891 Census, Mitcheldean,

Mary Jane WINTLE, Head, Wid, 54, Living on own means, b. Gloshire, Leonard Stanley
Francis, Son, Sing, 22, Brewer Malster and Miller, Gloshire, Mitcheldean

Are these two Mary Janes the same person?

GR Marriages,

First Name THOMAS
Last Name WINTLE
Gender Male
Year 1862
Spouse
Image Quarter 4
Country England
County London
District ST. GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE
District Number
Registry Number
Volume 1A
Page 479
Line Number 32

Thomas Wintle married one of the people below:

Mary Jane COLEMAN
Jane REDHEAD

8914 views

Hi Mike

Well found 1861!

I spotted that possible marriage but couldn't find a baptism for a Mary Jane Coleman in Leonard Stanley.

Going cross-eyed now, so will wait for Gabriella to come back to us.

Many Thanks

Chris

8795 views

Just looked at this again and it does say that Sophia Harris were her Forenames.

Record_ID: 42164
Entry_Number: 479
Year: 1833
Month: Dec
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Sophia Harris ***
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Mitchel Dean
Occupation: Cordwainer
Officiating_Minister: George Cox Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 220 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 60
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: W534

Also a baptism for another child of Thomas and Sophia:

Record_ID 42242
Entry_Number 557
Year 1837
Month Dec
Day 17
Parents_Surname WINTLE
Child_Forenames Alfred
Fathers_Forenames Thomas
Mothers_Forenames Sophia Harris
Mothers_Surname
Residence Mitchel Dean
Occupation Cordwainer
Officiating_Minister George Cox Curate
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P 220 IN 1/3
Page_Number 70
Parish_Chapel Mitcheldean
Soundex W534

Chris

8626 views

Hi Chris, here's another couple of HARRIS records to add to the family group (don't think you've already included them in this thread, apologies if you have and I've missed them).

Record_ID: 42196
Entry_Number: 511
Year: 1835
Month: May
Day: 27
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Edwin
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Sophie Harris
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Mitchel Dean
Occupation: Cordwainer
Officiating_Minister: George Cox Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 220 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: W534

I first found the above on Familysearch/LDS site, which also has;

Name Alfred John Wintle
Gender Male
Christening Date 17 Dec 1837
Christening Place MITCHELDEAN,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name Thomas Wintle
Mother's Name Sophia Harris

I cannot find a PR for this one.
Interestingly, GlosBMD gives this birth as;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
WINTLE Alfred John WINTLE WINTLE COLEMAN 1837 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 1 43

Searching him on Ancestry finds Amanda Wooley's public tree, in which she includes a transcript from their Family Bible giving his birth as 17th November 1837.

The tree goes onto show the Marriage of Thomas Wintle and Sophia Harris Coleman was at 25 Feb 1833 at Hempstead, Gloucester. They were therefore married some months before their first child Thomas was born.

Amanda ("Kimbad123") hasn't attached any media records to support this marriage date, I presume it comes from her family's own Bible records. # Curiously her tree only shows one sibling for Thomas, Alfred John, with no mention of Edwin ?

Finally, the tree shows Sophia Harris Coleman was born in Mitcheldean on 17 June 1808, as per the "base-born" PR you posted. It states her parents were John Coleman born 1792 in Longhope & Elizabeth Harris b 1783 in nearby Blaisdon, these dates appear to come from their 1851 Census records, at his 20 acre Mount Farm at Nottwood, Blaisdon. Clearly John was very young IF he was the actual biological father. I cannot find any PRs in this site's database to fit their marriage or Elizabeth's birth, but this might be John's;

Record_ID: 391829
Entry_Number:
Year: 1790
Month: Oct
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: COLEMAN
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P206 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 114
Parish_Chapel: Longhope
Soundex: C455

The PRs show eleven John Colemans buried in Longhope, this fits ours the best, he's present on the 1871 census but not later;

Record_ID: 21911
Entry_Number: 102
Year: 1872
Month: Mar
Day: 19
Surname: COLEMAN
Forenames: John
Residence: Longhope
Age_at_death: 82
Officiating_Minister: J Davies Rector of Abbenhall
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P206 IN 1/11
Page_No: 13
Parish_Chapel: Longhope
Soundex: C455

(So born abt 1790)

# Later update.
Searching Ancestry finds the image of the above 1837 Marriage Record by Banns for Thos' and Sophia from the Bishop's Transcript Records, the Record also names witnesses Charles Bailey, Elizabeth Watkins and George Reade.
I cannot find any Marriage record for Sophia's parents John & Elizabeth.
Searching Ancestry gives this POSSIBLE record for Elizabeth Harris, their best "fit" by far, but not a rare name so ??..

Name: Elizabeth Harris
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 20 Jul 1783
Baptism Place: Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Westbury On Severn
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Father: John Harris
Mother: Hannah Harris

8667 views

BNA Gloucester Journal - Saturday 27 October 1888

Sudden Death or Mr. Thomas WINTLE, of MITCHELDEAN.— The death took place at his residence at Mitcheldean, on Sunday morning, of Mr. Thomas Wintle who, as a businessman is well known in the Forest of Dean and a wide district outside. Mr. Wintle enjoyed fairly good health. Until lately it was generally understood, however, that his heart was affected. During the past month he had suffered from a bad cold, and this, with other ailments, gave his medical attendant Dr. Searancke, occasion for some considerable anxiety. On Saturday last, accompanied by the gentleman named, Mr. Wintle, while at Gloucester, saw Mr. Edis, who did not think the patient in a good state of health. He urged caution and care. Mr. Wintle returned home and went to bed early. Next morning, having passed a fairly good night he took a dose of medicine as was his usual custom, this being given by Mrs. Wintle at about 6 o'clock. There were then no unusual symptoms, but at 8 o'clock Mrs. Wintle took up a cup of tea into deceased's bedroom, and was horrified to find him dead. He had apparently passed away in his sleep. The news caused much grief in the town, and the sad event was mentioned at morning service at the parish church, by the Revs. H. Hardy, rector, and L. Roberts (Congregational). Deceased was in a large way of business, engaged as a miller, maltster, and brewer, and employed a numerous staff of men. He owned several public houses in Gloucester and the neighbourhood. The funeral took place at Mitcheldean on Wednesday. The coffin was placed in an open hearse, richly upholstered and mounted with silver bearings. The mourners were : Mr. A. J. Wintle, Ross (deceased's only brother), and his two sons : Messrs. Frank Wintle. E. Yearsley, J. Bryant W. Woolley, H. J. Davies, W. Fletcher, Rennett Jones, and W. Gurney. Many beautiful wreaths were placed upon the coffin. About 40 gentlemen friends and tenants of the deceased attended the funeral. The business houses were closed, and the tradesmen joined in the procession. The Revs. H. H. Hardy and G. E. Gillbanks officiated. Carriages were supplied by Mr. Symonds, Gloucester, and the undertaker was Mr. H. Goodwin, also this city.

However, they must have meant his only surviving brother,

Record_ID 29769
Entry_Number 247
Year 1836
Month Apr
Day 11
Surname WINTLE
Forenames Edwin
Residence Mitcheldean
Age_at_death Infant
Officiating_Minister George Cox Curate
Event Burial
Cause_of_death [not sta
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P 220 in 1/9
Page_No 31
Parish_Chapel Mitcheldean

8909 views

The HJ Davies listed among mourners would have been Harry Jeynes Davis, brother to Ann Wintle, and husband to Kate Wintle Davis (2 Davis siblings married 2 Wintle siblings).

7601 views

Hello Chris

Just looked at your post dated Oct 24th 2016 of Harry Z Hansell and Dorothy W Wintle.
also the children dates of births.

I noticed March 1930 for my mother Ann Eilla Hansell is incorrect. it is December 1929

Kind Regards
Zahra

4928 views

Recent postings to this thread cause us a great deal of concern as it puts those named at risk of Identity Theft and we strongly recommend the posts be amended and the information supplied direct by email using the email contactable facility details of which can be found under Help - FAQ. We also strongly recommend Posting Guidelines be read (see link at top fo the Forum page).

Admin

5159 views

Thank you for sending post. I have tried to edit with know joy so I've deleted
The post I hope.
Z

4976 views

These snippets are from the British Newspaper Archives, which is a subscription site.
To view the whole article you have sign up, but there may be some kind soul on here who has a subscription and may post some for you!

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England
19 Jul 1862

BANKRUPTCY ACT, 1861
1861 Notice to the Creditors of Mr. THOMAS WEBB, late of the George Inn, Mitcheldean. ALL persons to whom the above named THOMAS WEBB stands indebted are requested to forward the particulars thereof to Mr. Thomas Wintle, of Mitcheldean aforesaid. Maltster

View article Type: Article

Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England
19 Oct 1888

NEWENT
and G. O. Deane.— Christopher Clarke, TJpleadon, was summoned for keeping two dogs without license. Case dismissed.— Thomas Wintle, of Mitcheldean, applied for temporary transfer of the I-.oyal Oak Inn, Newent. Application granted to 15th November.

Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England
7 May 1891

NEWNHAM
Plaintiff was not prepared, however, to go on with tho case, which was adjourned his expense. —Alfred John Wintle, executor of the will of the late Thomas Wintle, brewer, of Mitcheldean, sued Oliver collier, of the Morse, Dry brook, to recover £5 18s. balance

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England
25 Oct 1884

DOVEY’S FARM, BRINKWORTH
LLANTHON Y.—This old-established and well-situated HOUSE TO LET. with immediate possess!' n. Rent and in going low.—Apply Thomas Wintle, Forest Steam Mills and Brewery, Mitcheldean.

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England
23 Apr 1881

NKWNHAM
for 30 days, it appearing that defendant, who was described as a monumental mason, had evaded eleven judgment summonses —Thomas Wintle, brewer, of Mitcheldean, v. J. Menrychurch, of Upton Bishop, near Kiws. The claim was recover £l4 odd, for which judgment

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England
7 Dec 1907

Sequel to a Littledean Farm Sale
provided that as the property had been for 00 years and upwards treated as freehold, and having been conveyed to the late Mr. Thomas Wintle and his predecessor in title, no objection should be taken on account of any part thereof having been originally leasehold

View article Type: Article

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England
9 May 1891

WEBTBURY ON-SEVERN
not prejiared, however, to go on with the case, which was adjourned at his ex|ieiuie. -Alfred John Wintle, executor of the will of the late Thomas Wintle, brewer, of Mitcheldean, sued Oliver Vick, collier, of the Morse, Drybrook, to recover 18s. 6d., balance

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England
17 Sep 1938

DEATHS
Tyler, aged 51 years. 1404 WlNTLE—September 6. of- 7. St. Paul’s Road. Weston-super-Mare, Frances, daughter of the late Thomas Wintle, of Mitchcldenn. 2333 ???

Cheltenham Chronicle Gloucestershire, England
7 Nov 1896

GLOUCESTER BANKRUPTCY COURT
Cinderford, and had a capital of £15. At the time took the public-house had a capital of about. Tho house was the property of Thomas Wintle, brewer, Mitcheldean, and debtor paid money for the in-going. About 12 months ago he got behind in his rent and beer account

Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England
17 Apr 1890

NEWNHAM COUNTY COURT
as it was only a question of time, and gave judgment for the remainder. JUDGMENT Br DEFAULT. Mr. A. J. Wintle, executor of the will oi Thomas Wintle, deceased, brewer, Mitcheldean, sited Philip Woodman, of the Junction Inn, Grange Court, to recover 13s

Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England
25 Oct 1888

LOCAL INTELLIGENCE
give humorous recitals, and several other gentlemen will also assist during the evening. The Mb. Thomas Wi.vtlu The funer*l of the late Mr. Thomas Wintle took place on Wednesday af;ernoon at Mitcheldean, and was attended by large gathering of relatives

Gloucestershire Chronicle Gloucestershire, England
16 Jul 1892

CHAUGKS K 011 SMALL. AUVEimSKMEN’Ib. Once. Three Times, s. d. '■ *■ 1 I 0 1 2 0 3 fi
12, at the parish church, Matson, Gloucestershire, the Her William Baieley, M.A.. rector, Francis, only son of the late Thomas Wintle, Forest House, Mitche’dean. to Ann Elizabeth, only daughter of John Davis, Tuffley Lawn, Gloucester. DEATHS. Bubb-Julv

-------------------------------------

In 1911 FRANCIS and mother Mary Jane are in Bath and living on Private Means. Going by the above snippets the family seemed to have property. Perhaps they sold up or were living off rents. Either way, Francis seems to be retired at 37 (lucky man!)

Will wait to hear back from you before digging deeper!

Regards
Chris

8839 views

Hi Gabriella and welcome to the forum & website.
Thomas/Francis Wintle's brewery was my very first place of work, the first year of my Apprenticeship at Rank Xerox in 1978 was at their Training School on the 2nd floor of their old "Maltings" building, which was originally built as Wintle's brewery before it became the home for B.A.F. during WW2 which then became Ranks.
Prior threads abt the Brewery & the Wintle family already on this forum include the following, hopefully they're of interest to you;
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=224
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=41808
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=38138
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=35078

Good luck with your researches, you've come to the right place !

8707 views

Thank you to you all for responding so quickly, that is so overwhelming so many information.
But so kind and amazing to write back to me.

At the moment I think I have:

Thomas Wintle was married to Sophia Harris Coleman
1800-1848 ?

Thomas Wintle was married to Mary Jane Coleman
1833-1888 1835-

they had 4 Children

Sophia Wintle Katherine Wintle Francis Wintle ?
1864-1958 1866-1927 1868-1943

married to married to married to
William Woolley Henry Jeynes Davis Ann Elizabeth Davis
1870-1949

Children ? none Dorothy Walpole Wintle
1894-1975

married to Henry (Harry) Z Hansell ?
?

They had 3 children Ann Elizabeth Hansell Inez Elizabeth Hansell- Dormer Francis Hansell
1937 1930 1934

Children Stephen, Lloyd, Yvette

Dear Chris this is the right family

Dear Chris why was on their Birth Certificate the name Wintel if the father was a Hansell ?
And why was Dorothy Walpole-Wintle ?

Kind regards,

Gabriella Dormer

8664 views

Hello Gabriella

I think we have confused you with too much information in one go!

On the baptism of Thomas Wintle (junior) his parents are named as Thomas Wintle and Sophia Harris. So far I haven't found a marriage in those two names. However, there is this marriage in Gloucester:

Record_ID: 105954
Entry_Number:
Year: 1831
Month: Dec
Day: 29
Grooms_Surname: WINTLE
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence:
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: HARVEY
Brides_Forenames: Sophia
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark:
Witness_1:
Witness_2:
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P154/12
Page_Number: 99
Parish_Chapel: Gloucester St Mary de Lode
Soundex_Groom: W534
Soundex_Bride: H610

This is only speculation, but I am wondering if Sophia and Harris were BOTH Christian names. Not that unusual for children to be baptised with (for example) the maiden name of their mother as a Christian name. If it is (IF!) then Thomas married a Sophia Harvey.

We need to see if there is a baptism somewhere for a Sophia Harris Harvey!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas Wintle (junior) is the one that married Mary Jane COLEMAN.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ref: the Hansells.

From the September Quarter of 1911 Mother's Maiden Names started to be included in the GRO Index which you can see on FreeBMD.

So the children are registered as Hansell but it then gives Wintle as the MMN.

We all wish they had done that that from the very beginning in 1837 'cos it would have made researching a lot easier!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is Dorothy's baptism. As you can see, Walpole was a second Christian name. You would have to do more research to find out where the Walpole name came from!

Record_ID: 1564
Entry_Number: 796
Year: 1894
Month: Dec
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Dorothy Walpole
Fathers_Forenames: Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Ann Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Micheldean
Occupation: Brewer
Officiating_Minister: E. Cargill
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born 6 Nov[ember] 1894
Notes:
Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 100
Parish_Chapel: Abenhall

Can I suggest you write out a tree on paper with the info you now have? It all gets very confusing when you are trying to remember everything you have found out! Work back from your husband and add his parents, grandparents etc.

Come back to us if you get stuck, or there is something you don't understand. There are lots of Parish Records for Wintles on this site which should help you find 'family groups.'

Cheers
Chris

8608 views

Ref: the Hansells.

From the September Quarter of 1911 Mother's Maiden Names started to be included in the GRO Index which you can see on FreeBMD.

So the children are registered as Hansell but it then gives Wintle as the MMN.

We all wish they had done that that from the very beginning in 1837 'cos it would have made researching a lot easier!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is Dorothy's baptism. As you can see, Walpole was a second Christian name. You would have to do more research to find out where the Walpole name came from!

Record_ID: 1564
Entry_Number: 796
Year: 1894
Month: Dec
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Dorothy Walpole
Fathers_Forenames: Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Ann Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Micheldean
Occupation: Brewer
Officiating_Minister: E. Cargill
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born 6 Nov[ember] 1894
Notes:
Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 100
Parish_Chapel: Abenhall

Chris is entirely correct ref the FreeBMD site not giving Mother's Maiden Names for births before 1911.

However, luckily for us the excellent GlosBMD site DOES !, I recommend always use these two reference sites hand-in-hand.

For example here's their Birth Record for Dorothy;

Birth Details

Child Surname & Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
WINTLE Dorothy Walpole WINTLE WINTLE DAVIS 1894 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 2 308

Searching for a Wintle/Davis Marriage on GlosBMD gives;

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
WINTLE Francis DAVIS Ann Elizabeth Gloucester Matson St Katherine 1892 51 No 1 37

which nicely fits what we already have.

The reason I was using GlosBMD was trying to find a link to the Walpole name. GlosBMD is really user-friendly, it's not fussy about spelling of surnames, and it displays records in tables that can be quickly and easily browsed thro. A strongly recommended site !. GlosBMD site has this record, a relation perhaps ?

Birth Details
Child Surname & Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
DAVIS Sidney Walpole DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1872 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 13 435

Searching GlosBMD for Baptisms to DAVIS and GLOVER at this time suggest this complete family group;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
DAVIS John Newman DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1864 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 10 138
DAVIS Charles William DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1865 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 10 407
DAVIS Harry Jeynes DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1866 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 11 250
DAVIS Annie Rebecca DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1868 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 12 6
DAVIS Ann Elizabeth DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1869 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 12 355
DAVIS Sidney Walpole DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1872 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 13 435
DAVIS Edward Frank DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1873 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 14 214

So if he lived to adulthood, Sidney is Dorothy's Uncle, her possible Godfather perhaps ?. Still doesn't explain WHY Walpole ?.

Probable parents, again from GlosBMD;

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
DAVIS John GLOVER Rebecca Ann Gloucester Northgate St John the Baptist 1861 55 No 2 474

Maybe these parents were just admirers of the Walpole family, it's quite normal for Victorian children to be given names from all sorts of prominent public people ?

OR, could "Walpole" relate to the Matson area where Dorothy's parents were married, presumably her mother's home area ?. The only thing I can easily find by searching "Matson Walpole" is that Horace Walpole, an emminent London-based politician of the 1700s from an important aristocratic family, was a good friend of George Selwyn who owned much of MATSON where Walpole visited him several times... ?.

Regarding Chris's wise advice to draw your tree out, another option is to "draw" it using Ancestry or any of the other subscription sites, this can be done without taking out a paid-subscription, plus the site can still be used to search and gain some records eg the FreeBMD records, plus they occasionally have free-access weekends etc. This is how I worked for a few years building several quite substantial trees on-line, long-before eventually shelling-out on a subscription; this marvelous FoD site was key, plus the other free sites we've discussed. As for most queries, searching this forum often provide useful info from older threads, in this case see
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=35197

Hoping this helps, Jeff.

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Child Surname & Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
DAVIS Sidney Walpole DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1872 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 13 435 [/color]

Searching GlosBMD for Baptisms to DAVIS and GLOVER at this time suggest this complete family group;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
DAVIS John Newman DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1864 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 10 138
DAVIS Charles William DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1865 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 10 407
DAVIS Harry Jeynes DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1866 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 11 250
DAVIS Annie Rebecca DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1868 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 12 6
DAVIS Ann Elizabeth DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1869 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 12 355
DAVIS Sidney Walpole DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1872 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 13 435
DAVIS Edward Frank DAVIS DAVIS GLOVER 1873 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 14 214

So if he lived to adulthood, Sidney is Dorothy's Uncle, her possible Godfather perhaps ?. Still doesn't explain WHY Walpole ?.

Probable parents, again from GlosBMD;

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
DAVIS John GLOVER Rebecca Ann Gloucester Northgate St John the Baptist 1861 55 No 2 474

I can answer the "why Walpole" question - Ann (Davis) Wintle's grandmother's family were Walpoles (that is, Rebecca Glover Davis's mother's family). There's a tradition in that branch of my family to use familial surnames as middle names. The Sidney Walpole listed above is my great-grandfather. Thus, Ann Davis Wintle is my second-great aunt. This discussion thread filled in some blanks in my family tree and I'm happy to add a little something to it!

Marie

7537 views

Aha, riddle solved !
Many thanks Marie for your contribution, much appreciated.
J

7553 views

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
DAVIS John GLOVER Rebecca Ann Gloucester Northgate St John the Baptist 1861 55 No 2 474

I can answer the "why Walpole" question - Ann (Davis) Wintle's grandmother's family were Walpoles (that is, Rebecca Glover Davis's mother's family). There's a tradition in that branch of my family to use familial surnames as middle names. The Sidney Walpole listed above is my great-grandfather. Thus, Ann Davis Wintle is my second-great aunt. This discussion thread filled in some blanks in my family tree and I'm happy to add a little something to it!

Hello Marie

Sorry, it has been so long since I have done anything with the Family Tree. There was to much going on in my Family that I did not have the time to be on the Computer and search.
My Husbands mother does not talk a lot about her family, but I know she was very close to her grand mother Ann Elizabeth Davis-Wintle.

I would love to find out more about the Davis side, if you could give me any information about names and dates would be so much appreciated.

thanks and kind regards
Gabriella Dormer

5103 views

Hello Gabriella Dormer

I've just started to go on the forum were I found you.

I'm so pleased that at last I've found a family member to Annie Wintle nee Davis who is my great grandmother and Dorothy Walpole Hansell my grandmother.

Is your husband Stephen or Lloyd they are my cousins. Inez Hansell is my godmother and my mothers sister Ann Ellia 1929 died 2009.

This a short note for now and hope to be in contact again soon

regards
Zahra

5121 views

Hello Zahra

Thank you for writing back to me.
My Husband is Lloyd Dormer.

You are Zahra .... and who is Janice Gluyas who wrote to me on the 18.01.19?

I am trying to do a family tree with the Wintle family and the Davis. I have not signed up with ancestry.co.uk, I am on a free Family Tree with them at the moment, but I am having problems with finding more family member.

thanks for your reply
regards

Gabriella Dormer

5057 views

Hi Gabriella

Thank you for responding to me. I'm Zahra and my Christian name is Janice. I should have stuck to one name only.

I've got some information which you may or may not have on Francis Wintle and Ann E Davis as well as John Davis and Rebecca Glover who are my gg grand- parents who lived at York Buildings, Tuffly Lawn, Gloucester.

I would like to communicate with you through our e-mails, rather than the open forum if you are happy to do that.

Please could you tell me if my mothers brother Francis b 1937 is still alive and what are his 3 children's names.

Kind regards
Zahra

5027 views

Hi Zahra,

If you want to be contactable by email you need to enable that in your profile. At present you don't have that option enabled.

Same applies to Gabriella.

--
Peter

4979 views

Please could you tell me if my mothers brother Francis b 1937 is still alive and what are his 3 children's names.

Zahra

Hi Zahra,
on the assumption you know Francis's surname (I've read back thro this thread but don't think it's been mentioned for sure), and IF he then married and you know his wife's maiden name, then you may be able to find their children's names using FreeBMD which offers good coverage within our area. Knowing the dates then GlosBMD may give further detail if the events were within Gloucestershire.

The FreeBMD website is fussy insofar as all names input for searching must be spelt exactly as per the website's database, it won't give near-misses like GlosBMD does, but it it still very helpful in other ways.

For example, I can search for all Birth registrations of people first name "Francis" between say 1936 and 1938. This gives over 6000 results, too many for the site to display; but if we now filter them to just include those births registered in Gloucestershire we get a more managable list to browse through. Because the results are all post 1911, each includes the mother's maiden name. This list includes a huge variety of surnames, most of which are clearly not relevant, but hopefully something springs out, I'm thinking it may be Wintle, or Davis etc.

By screen-searching the results for "Wintle", as a first guess, I found the following results which I suspect are relevant.

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Births Mar 1937
Hansell Francis Wintle Cheltenham 6a 603
Zabra-Hansell Francis Wintle Cheltenham 6a 603

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Apologies if wrong, but it seems reasonable to suspect these are one and the same person, and your Francis.

This record shows the Birth was registered (so not necessarily occurred) sometime during the Jan/Feb/March Quarter of 1937, to get more a more precise date one needs to order the Birth Ceritifate.

If I now search this record on GlosBMD, it gives the following record. This suggests the birth actually occurred in 1936. We often seen records like this, suggesting the birth was in late 1936, probably December, so not surprisingly given the busy time of year and possible wintery weather etc, the birth wasn't actually registered by a family member until sometime into the New Year, aka the "Jan/Feb/Mar" Quarter.
This record also confirms it's one and the same person/event

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
ZAHRA-HANSELL Francis WINTLE 1936 Cheltenham Cheltenham, Cheltenham 66A 473
HANSELL Francis WINTLE 1936 Cheltenham Cheltenham, Cheltenham 66A 473

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/SimpleSearch.aspx

Thus-far I've been unable to find a Marriage record for Francis, hence cannot find any birth records for his children. However it's likely they may still be found within the FreeBMD site - perhaps the unusual surname, with it's likelihood of mis-spelt records, is a contributor, but hopefully methodical & patient searching will give results.

That said, a general internet search of this name does give the following entry. I'm not a subscribed member so cannot give you any more specific information, even if this FoDFH forum allowed me to do so.

Francis Zahra-Hansell in Hereford, HR3
Based on 2010, 2014-18 Electoral Roll
Street address available
Hereford
Hereford And Worcester
HR3
Full postcode available
Together with:
Caryl M Zahra-Hansell

etc, see
https://www.192.com/atoz/people/zahra-hansell/francis/

I hope this is of some help to you.

Finally, please be reminded this FoDFH forum is NOT intended for finding "living relatives". Please see http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=10668
I do hope my post is acceptable in this respect, as an attempt to show beginners how useful the various online sites can be for researching C20th records as well as earlier ones.
In this respect I am pleased Zahra and Gabriella have already indicated they'll continue this discussion away from the forum using the private e-mail system.

Good luck to you both,
J

5063 views

Hi Jeff

Thank you for the information.As you see I've just started with the on the form recently.

Francis Hansell is my uncle and lives in South Africa.
His children would have been born there.

Regards
Zahra

5027 views

Hi Zahra,
you're very welcome.
Then it's possible the free-to-use FamilySearch website with it's worldwide database will hold records of interest to you.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/

Meanwhile, out of curiosity, is the Hereford link relevant to you ?

Thanks, J.

5020 views

Hi Jeff
Yes the Hereford link would be helpful
As some off my ancestors lived in Herefordshire

Thanks
Zahra

4925 views

Hello Zahra,

firstly please allow me to introduce myself I am Yvette Boucher nee Dormer, my Mother is Inez Dormer nee Hansell. My grandmother was Dorothy Walpole Hansell nee Wintle, I have two brothers called Stephen and Lloyd and you of course have already spoken to my sister-in-law Gabriella Dormer.

I am not sure if Gabriella has informed you yet but my Uncle Francis is still alive and he did have three children and they were born in South Africa, their names are Colin, Mark and Christine although she is known as Dusty. My uncle's wife is call Carole.

Regards
Yvette

5011 views

Hello Yvette

So pleased that we are in contact.
I gather you've taken over from Gabriella.

Thank you for uncle Francis information

This is just a short note,will get back to you soon

Kind regards
Zahra

4905 views

Dear Zahra,

your very welcome and thank you for your reply. I have since spoken to Gabriella and more than happy to help you where I can.

I await your response.

Kind Regards
Yvette

4938 views

Dear Yvette
Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I Unfortunately put
some family names and dates of births who are living.I was asked from the admin to edit my post

I tired with know joy so I deleted the post.
Will get back to you soon.

Kind Regards
Zahra

4944 views

Dear Yvette

I've since logged in on my profile Username, which allows e.mail contact.

Would you be happy to do the same, then I can ask questions about living family members.

Kind Regards
Zahra

4887 views

Dear Yvette

I hope we could keep corresponding about
Our great grandmother Annie Davis and her parents John Davis
and Rebecca Glover.

I've managed to get a picture off John who is quite talk and Rebecca.
Looks on the small build like grandmother Dorothy.

Hope to hear from you sometime

Kind Regards
Zahra

4498 views

Hi Dilly
Wonder if you can contact me . Im trying to locate Stephen and Llyod.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

We make it very clear in Posting Guidelines that the publishing of an email address in a post is not acceptable for it leaves the user open to Spammers etc. The address has therefore been deleted.
If you wish to be contacted then access your profile and tick the box "Email address contactable"
Admin

3891 views

Hi

My name is Mark Zahra-Hansell. My dad is Francis Zahra-Hansell ( Son of Dorthy Warpole)

Francis Zahra-Hansell is married to Caryl Mary Zahra-Hansell ( Harris) Maiden Name

My Brother Colin Zahra-Hansell was killed in an aeroplane crash back in 1985. My sister , Christine Lynn Wheeler ( was Zahra-Hansell ) resides in Botswana . I reside in Canada.

Anne was my fathers sister whom I have never met.

Inez dormer ( Warpole ) also my fathers sister is married to Raymond Dormer and have three children ( stephen, Lloyd, and Dilly )

Hope this fills in some blanks

4133 views

I am Mark Zahra-Hansell. One of Francis children.

My brother Colin was killed in 1985 . My sister Christine Lynn Wheeler is alive and had two children . Devin and Jessica . Jessica was murdered around 1996 .

I am married and have two sons Colin Zahra-Hansell and Graham Zahra-Hansell

4112 views

Hi Mark, and a warm welcome to this forum and it's associated website, we hope you've found it a worthwhile visit.
Please accept our sympathies for the terrible losses you and your family have suffered, we appreciate it can't have been easy writing about them.
Thankyou so much for updating this thread.
Best wishes, Jeff.

4124 views

Hi Gabriella

Not sure if I have the right person but I think Llyod might be my first cousin. My dad is Francis Zahra-Hansell sister Inez dormer .

Be good to get in touch .
Regards
Mark

4157 views

Hi Gabriella

I take it this is where you got the info that Sophia Harris was Sophia Harris Coleman!

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/wintle/86/

mitcheldean wintles
By amanda woolley March 15, 2002 at 12:22:41
I descend from Thomas Wintle 1800-1848 of Mitcheldean.He married Sophia Harris Coleman, and they owned both the White Horse and the Red Lion hotels in Mitcheldean.Their eldest son was another Thomas Wintle (1833-1888) He founded the Forest Brewery at Mitcheldean.Their second son, Alfred John Wintle founded A.J.Wintle & Sons, a company which bottled alcoholic and soft drinks at Bill Mills (near Weston-under-Penyard).I have posted family photographs on the "Forest of Dean" website.If anyone would like further details of this Wintle line please contact me.Amanda Woolley

Does she give the marriage details anywhere?

Chris

This baptism then?

Record_ID: 414712
Entry_Number:
Year: 1808
Month: Jun
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: COLEMAN
Child_Forenames: Sophia Harris
Fathers_Forenames: not stated
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: base child of
Notes: Mother's name Elizh entered in the PR has been expanded to Elizabeth
Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 32
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: C455

So Harris MAY be her father's name?

8692 views

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