Hi, I have been trying to research an ancestor of mine - Dr Joseph Abell. According to my records he lived in Forest Lodge, Mitcheldean. I cannot seem to locate where this in is? Does anyone have any further information on where Forest Lodge is or was located, or have any info on the family.
Many thanks
K

Hi

Can you give an approximate time frame to look for ?

Thanks

Sid Toomey

Hi Sid, thanks for the reply. I believe he was living in Forest Lodge around 1895 and he died around 1906.
Thanks K

Hi

The following should be of interest .

Kellys 1897 Directory for Gloucestershire shows :-

John Robert William Abel M.R.C.S, Eng. L.S.A. Surgeon and Certifying Factory Surgeon living at Forest Lodge, Micheldean.

1891 England Census shows

John Abel aged 65, Surgeon, living at Forest Lodge in Merrin Street, Micheldean along with his wife Harriett aged 62, a housekeeper and a groom.

Previous Census entries for Merrin Street show a Southward recording of entries with the Rectory and National School appearing before Forest Lodge and the Congregational Chapel appearing afterwards.

National Library of Scotland Ordnance Survey map of Micheldean shows the above locations.

Google View overlay of the Ordnance Survey map shows some buildings still exist and a Street view of the building on the East side on a corner intersection shows a "Forest House". Although this building is rendered, what looks like old stonework exists on the corner.

Looks promising to me.

Sid Toomey

BRITISH NEWSPAPERS ON LINE

Gloucester Journal

Saturday 3 December 1904

THE LATE DR ABELL

FUNERAL AT MITCHELDEAN

The remains of the late Dr J.R.W. Abell of Mitcheldean, were laid in their last receiving-place in the burial ground of St Michael and All Angels' Church on Saturday, amid general evidence of grief and respect.

In diference to the express wish of the deceased, the coffin was of polished elm with brass mountings, the breast-plate bearing the inspection.

"J.R.W. Abell, died November 22nd 1904.

There no flowers, also the wish of the deceased.
The chief mourners were
Mrs Abell (Widow)
Marion and Molly (daughters)
Rev and Mrs Mogridge, Framilode
Mrs Howard Abell, Witcombe
Mr Jack Abell, Gloucester (nephew)

Among those who attended to pay a last tribute to an old and valued friend were Messrs, E E Yearsley, T Whatley, S W Constance, W Shaw, G M Wright, Sergt M Powell, C Baynham, P Hatton, W Silly, A Chew, Dr Searanchke, J Morgan, O Staley, C Rudge, C B Mason, F C Mason, E Brain.

A number of members of Court "Hope" A.O.F. Longhope, also attended, and the Foresters' funeral service was impressively read by Bro. W H Powell (hob. member and trustee of the Court) at the deceased's residence.

Blinds were drawn en route to the church, and a number of twon folk assembled at the building. Letters of sympathy were received by Mrs Abell from Rev C E Dighton, Dr Batten, Messrs. F Wintle, J W Probyn and G Newman.

The service was conducted by the rector, the Rev. L Wilkinson, after which the local band of bell-ringers rang a muffled peal.

Forest of Dean records

Burial at Mitcheldean - 26 November 1904

John Robert William ABELL, m.r.c.s.

residence: Forest Lodge Mitchel Dean

aged 83

Here's another one from the Gloucester Citizen - Wednesday 23 November 1904 - Very useful background information.

Death of Dr ABELL

A WELL KNOWN DEAN FOREST PRACTITIONER.

By the death of Dr John Robert William Abell, which took place at his residence, Forest Lodge, Mitcheldean, in the early hours of Tuesday morning, a very familiar figure passed peacefully away at the advanced age of 83 years.

The deceased gentleman was an old boy of King's School, Gloucester, and was trained for his profession at St Bartholomew's Hospital, taking the degree of M.R.C.S. in 1845 and L.S.A. two years later, about which time he succeeded to his father's extensive practice at Mitcheldean.

Deceased was highly respected, and earned the reputation of being a most assiduous medical attendent. In addition to a large private practice, he was for many years surgeon to Lord Wimborne's iron mines and various lodges of friendly societies, and was certified factory surgeon for this district.

Deceased was a great lover of sport. He had few rivals in taking a fence, and he rode as often as possible to the Ledbury and Berkeley Hounds, which practice he kept up till within the last few years.

Although Dr Abell had been in declining health for nearly a year, he only gave up practice in March last, when he resigned his appointment as surgen to Court Hope, A.O.F. of Longhope.

Deceased leaves a widow and three children to mourn their loss.

If you look under the Heading: Resources

and then Inquests, and type in the name ABELL

There are 16 ABELL's listed

a couple being John Robert W ABELL, 1868 - Mitcheldean and the other 1894, a couple of John ABELL, other names

F ABELL, Thomas ABELL, George ABELL, and Margaret ABELL

Hi Kate
My reply and some of the others relate to a John Robert William Abell Surgeon whose address in 1891 Census was Forest Lodge Mitcheldean.
Some further developments are that 1901 Census address for him was still Forest Lodge. However next entry was for "Forest House" where Francis Wintle and his wife Ann lived. Francis was a Brew Master & Miller. If you look at the photo gallery for Mitcheldean i think you will find photos of the Wintle family in Mitcheldean as well as street scenes.

I believe John Robert William Abell was a brother of your Joseph Abell who was baptised 15th May 1829. (transcription is on this sites Parish Records resource).

Joseph and John Robert William Abell's parents were Joseph Abell (Army Surgeon on half pay and private practice) and Mary Wilton Abell.

Joseph Abell (Senior) was born 1782 in Merrin Street.

31st August 1813 Assistant Surgeon Joseph Abell from the 49th Regiment of Foot was appointed Ensign in the 60th Regiment of Foot. I believe its name could have been "60th (Royal American Rifles) Regiment of Foot.

There is more that i haven't listed above.

Sid Toomey

Hi again,

I think that, if you want to, there are quite a few leads to follow up for Joseph Abell (the older one) and his family. Some are as follows:-
Gloucestershire Tithes Apportionment Data Base. (searchable free on line)
Once you are at the searchable part of the data base, input "Abell" in the land occupier box.
This should give you
PLOT 152, House, offices and garden 1 rood 20 perches owned and occupied by Joseph Abell.
PLOT 153, Cherry orchard, 3 roods 31 perches occupied by Joseph Abell. Owned by another person.
PLOT 153 A, Garden, 39 perches occupied by Joseph Abell, owned by another person.
This relates to around 1839.

Then go to "Know Your Place, Gloucestershire" online which is a searchable series of overlaid maps and other information. Find your way to the village of Micheldean and Merrin Street.
Play around with the different maps and one of the older Ordnance Survey maps has "Forrest Cottage" showing on it, next door to "Forest House" (on its North Side).
You can then overlay the Tithe Map over the Ordnance Survey map and you will see plots 152, 153 & 153A.
For some reason in this instance the maps aren't perfectly synchronised but it isn't an issue.
Then one of the more recent maps will show "Forrest Cottage" as a place name "Merrin".

Do a search for listed buildings in Micheldean and you should find that both "Forest House" and "Merrin" are Grade two listed buildings. If you follow the different links for "Merrin" you should find a photograph of the house. The front of the house is to the back and doesn't face the road. The copyright for the photograph is owned by a Doctor. Interesting.

Wales Newspapers online (free searchable) have some entries for newspaper articles concerning Doctor Abell.

Then another avenue to search is The National Archives. Gloucestershire Archives have documents relating to "Doctor Abell of Micheldean" and properties, mostly mortgages, at 16 & 18 Brunswick Square, Gloucestershire.
Buildings 12 to 18 Brunswick Square are Grade two listed and Google Street view shows No.18 all scaffolded and looks like being refurbished. I think Dr Abell might ? have practised medicine there. Description of the square and its history look exclusive.
One of the files in Gloucestershire Archives relates to a family court case, Abell vs Abell.

British Medical Directories should also provide information on Doctors Abell and their medical qualifications.

Military History for Ensign Abell of the 60th Regiment of Foot, previously of the 49th Foot, could also be interesting to follow up.
The 49th Foot from 1802-1814 was in Canada and fighting the Americans.
The 60th Foot had as many as five Battalions with at least some of them fighting with Wellington in Spain in the Peninsular Wars before the Battle of Waterloo. From a quick read i think they were split up with individual Companies being attached to other Regiments. I think they were equipped with new "short rifles" and performed well, earning praise. If Joseph Abell was there, being a Surgeon, he probably would have been in amongst the gory stuff.
Some reports mention the 60th didn't fight at Waterloo owing to being understrength.
Around 1818, after Waterloo and the occupation of France, the British Army was downsized and i believe the 60th was disbanded.
This could be when Ensign Abell went on half pay.

I hope this gives you something to think about.
Any queries let me know.
Good hunting.
Sid Toomey.

According to the 1859 Medical Register, Joseph Abell's medical qualifications were that he was "in practice before 1815".
This Joseph also owned a house or part of one at St Aldate House, St Aldate Street Gloucester. I think his Son John William Robert Abell might have been born there. Any mention regarding Aldgate Street i have seen still refers to "Joseph Abell of Micheldean"..

Regarding Joseph Abell's Army Service, Gazette notices from 1813 mention that he went from 95th Foot to 49th Foot to 60th Foot.

More leads on Joseph Abell's (The ex Army Surgeon) parents. Looks promising but i haven't cross checked this information.
Father : Thomas Abell Died 17th September 1815 in Gloucester.
Mother : Anne Harris, died 8th June 1833 aged 72. in Gloucester .
Among his siblings there was a brother Thomas who was a Lieutenant in the Army and died at Masulipatam on 17th September 1835. He was buried in Madras. Baptised 21st April 1793 at St Thomas Gloucester.

There is an old Forum online where members were asking about
Thomas the Soldier and relating the queries to a transcription on a vault in the cemetery. His Father and Mother are recorded on the vault there as well.

Should keep you out of trouble

Sid Toomey

Hi Again Kate,
I apologise in advance if i am robbing you of the feeling of satisfaction whenever you make a discovery about an Ancestor.
The following is a broad summary of Joseph Abell's Army Service as records to date have revealed. I believe there is much much more which can be discovered about this mans army service and the Regiments in which he served. The events occurred at important dates in British military history and some of the regiments were ahead of their time.
We know previously that in 1813, newspaper notices reported that he was originally in the 95th Regiment of Foot, promoted to Surgeon, transferred to 49th Regiment of Foot, then transferred quickly again and promoted to Ensign with the 60th regiment of Foot. (The Regiments were known by other names as well during the time he served)
First. The 95th Regiment of Foot was formed early in the 19th Century ,originally being known as the Regimental Corps of Riflemen. Their tactics were different to a normal infantry regiment, they marched far quicker than the standard number of steps/minute so that they arrived at their destination faster. Their uniform was green for camouflage rather than the standard Red Coat and they went to ground as sharpshooters rather than stand in lines and fire. Joseph Abell was part of this regiment.

Source for the following is "The Napoleon Series, Lionel S. Challis's "Peninsular Roll Call". This is a searchable index of soldiers who fought in the Peninsular Wars against the French and under the overall command of the Duke of wellington.
Joseph Abbell's record is as follows :-
Asst. Surgeon, 95 Foot, 10th April 1806
Surgeon 49th Foot, 15th July 1813.
First Battalion, October 1808 to January 1809, June 1809to May 1810
Second Battalion, January & February 1811.
Engagements (Battles), Carabellos, Siege of Corona, Cadiz.
Also Copenhagen and Battle of Kioge in 1807
The duke of Wellington encouraged his junior officers and those wishing to earn promotion to write histories of their regiments in order to foster an Esprit de Corp. There is a lot written about the Peninsular wars in detail and Wellington also has his official records which should be able to be found online.
"History-the 95th Rifles" is one site which has a detailed record of the units history. Although it is a reenactment unit in Canada it makes interesting reading which probably is pretty accurate.

Continued on another message.

Sid Toomey

Re Joseph Abell's Army service.

Next, refer online to Harts Annual Army Lists.
"Special Reserves List and Territorial Forces List"
In the section "War Services of the Medical Officers" Medical Department on page 420
Mr Joseph Abell is mentioned . Apart from the engagements mentioned previously when he was in the Peninsular war, the following new information is listed.
Hospital Assistant..4th November 1805
Assistant Surgeon.. 10th April 1806
Surgeon.. 15th July 1813

next to his name is (55). look this up on following pages for the following information.

Served in Hanover in 1805.Served in America in 1814-1818 in the 7th Battalion of the 60th Rifles (Regiment of Foot).

The 7th Battalion is interesting. It was formed in 1813/4 because more manpower was needed and the existing Army was stretched in Europe chasing Bonaparte. Someone came up with the idea of forming a Battalion using Europeans, Germans, French and other Nationalities too go fight the Americans. There was a bit of a hiccup with all the languages spoken except English and the troops were trained previously in German or French drills etc.
After the American war ended the Battalion stayed in Canada on Garrison duty.
There is a book online dealing with this regiment . " A regimental Chronicle and list of officers of the 60th, or the King's Royal Rifle Corps, formerly the 62nd, or the Royal American Regiment of Foot" A mouthful i know but there is information in it about Joseph Abell.
The book carries a year by year listing of the places where the regiment was stationed or fought as well as a list of all the names of the officers year by year.
Joseph Abell is first listed in 1813 (15th July) and appears each year until 1818. Knowing that he was in the 7th Battalion there should be mention of its disbanding then and probably able to fine-tune where the 7th Battalion fought during that period.

I think that army Surgeons in the early 19th Century would have been close to the front line and probably still within their own Regiments lines rather than in hospitals. I think hospitals probably came later. I am sure there will be books written about the life of 19th Century Army Surgeons. He probably didn't have a rifle, just a saw and a strong stomach.
Of course all of my theorising might be proved inaccurate once his Record of Service is located. We might even find he spent much of his time in isolation fighting the 19th century equivalent of Covid.
I hope you find something of interest.

Sid Toomey

Wow! This is amazing, thanks ever so much! I initially got confused with the name and it is definitely Dr John Abell that I am a descendant of so there is much interesting info to digest here. Thanks a million x

Thank you so much for all this information. I now have so much to go on X

Hi

Re Dr. John Abell, your Ancestor.
Am I correct that this is John Robert William Abell ?
There is a good photo of him in a top hat and a photo of what might be him and family and servants outside the front of "Forrest Lodge". It is on Ancestry.
If you are interested in more detailed information about him and his father Joseph, the one time Army Surgeon let me know. I am now intrigued by Josephs time in the Army and am going to explore it more for my own interest if nothing else.
If you put your email address into the box provided on the Forum, I can communicate through there.

If other Forum members might be interested in Joseph and the Army, reply to this post and i can continue to put information on the Forum .

Sid Toomey

Dear MP Griffiths,
I have been trying to get in touch having read your post regarding my connection to the Matthews Family from Down Ampney and other villages in Gloucestershire. There seems to be very recent activity from you on this site so may I appeal to you to get in touch in the first instance so we can at least establish or not, that you may have information useful to my research.
Unfortunately in order to allow easy communication without having to use this website, I included an email address that I notice was censored.

If you are so minded please use my contact box on my website; www.antiquefurniturerestorstion.net

Best regards

Andrew A. Matthews

Dear MP Griffiths
Apologies and I now realise that by including my website details the admin will probably delete it !
So can I draw your attention to looking at google for andrew a matthews restoration , arrington, Cambridgeshire, Uk

Thanks again for all this info! It's so intriguing....would love to hear more! I have seen that photo of Forest Lodge, that is what started my interest in finding out more about it and.the family in general!

If you go to mitcheldean church guide web site and click on inscriptions you will find Dr Abel surgeon and his wife's grave stone is still standing

I've found your previous message, and posted a few replies.

If you don't belong to Find My Past, you can subscribed (if not already) to British Newspapers on Line.

Down Ampney isn't normally covered on the Forest of Dean forum. Rootschat Gloucestershire is on the net with a forum and help.

Hi Kate,
Your Joseph Abell (the ex Army surgeon) has intrigued me. When i first the and saw the Army regiments he had belonged to and the Peninsular wars, i became hooked. I am working on putting all the information in to a story form and once finished, will put it on to the FOD resources section of this site. (mind you, the administrators might choose to start a new comedy section to store it owing to my punctuation and spelling abilities). I will let you know once i have finished. A brief overview of his service is as follows using the first record uncovered to date as a starting point.
In 1805 he was a hospital Assistant with the new 95th Regiment (RiflesBrigade) which had Green uniforms, not redcoats, different tactics and even marched faster than the other Infantry regiments. He went to Hanover in Germany then as an Assistant Surgeon went to the siege of Copenhagen and battle of Kioge in 1807.
Each Battalion of a Regiment was supposed to have one Surgeon and two assistant Surgeons although apparently it was often hard to find people to fill these positions. After 1807 his regiment went to fight in the Peninsular wars which would be the lead up to the battle of Waterloo. During this time each time a Regiment stopped for the night it was regulations that one of the first duties to be done was for an Aid post to be set up for any sick and wounded . This was often done by commandeering a local farmhouse. During a battle or engagement it was desirable for the Battalion Surgeon and assistant to be located "no more than seven paces" behind the fighting. At the first battle of the Peninsular Wars there are reports of this location for the Surgeon being just behind the Regiments "Colours" which were probably their most treasured possession and a rallying point during a battle.
He was part of the retreat to Corunna during winter and then the battle of Corunna. After that battle battalions were understrength and evacuated back to England to be brought back to strength. During the evacuation by small boats to the ships waiting off shore the French artillery shelled the boats carrying the sick and wounded. Probably Joseph would have been amongst this chaos.
The Regiment returned to the Peninsular after regrouping and Joseph was in more action. In addition , in one four month period the Army lost more than 5,000 men to fever with the 95th Rifles losing 100.
Sometime after 1811 he was transferred to 49th Regiment of Foot (It might have been in 1813). By August 1813 he was promoted to an Ensign and Surgeon of a new 7th Battalion of the 60th Regiment of Foot. The new 7th Battalion was raised on Guernsey and most of the soldiers were ex German prisoners of War. (The 60th Regiment of Foot was like a British Foreign Legion which served outside of the UK and comprised of mostly "foreigners.). the 7th Battalion then went to Canada with some of it participating in action against the Americans. After this action the next few years were spent defending Nova Scotia and garrison duties. By the end of 1818, his regiment had been reduced to two battalions and Joseph was on half pay and out of the Army to begin the next stage of his life.

Did you know he had a younger Brother Thomas who was a Lieutenant who died in India in 1833. The circumstances leading up to his death were tragic. I haven't read much about this yet but it looks like his regiment were ordered to proceed to a particular location about 250 miles away. The regiment commander thought the distance by land to be too far through mosquito and fever infested swamp and requested transport by sea. The Commander in Chief refused permission and ordered them to march. The majority of the regiment then died from Cholera with as little as 15 men presenting themselves on parade. Thomas's date of death was only a couple of days after the remainder of the regiment were eventually transferred by sea to Burma to recover. He either died at sea or was one of the ones left behind. I also believe he might have been married so was his wife with him and what happened to her ?
Let me know if you want more about him and i will look in to it.

Sid Toomey

Thank you for that info Johnn. I've located it on the website. Would be great to see in person someday now I know it is there
thx Kate

Thanks once again for all this info, it's amazing and soooo interesting! Apologies for my late reply, i've had to put this on the back burner for a while. if you do find anything further of interest, please do share if you can.
Many thanks
Kate

Hi Kate.

I have copies of Dr Joseph Abell's Statement of Service from the time he was in the British Army as well as his younger brother Lieutenant Thomas Abell's statement of service.
Source was the National Archives of the UK.
If you would like copies, send me an email using the blue envelope next to my user name to make arrangements.

(If any other Forum user would like copies send me a message also)

Sid Toomey

Hi

Following on with looking for records to do with Dr Joseph Abel/Abell of Mitcheldean, his parents and his siblings, would anyone have access to the following book ?

"A Calendar of the Registers of the Apprentices of the City of Gloucester 1700 - 1834" by Jill Barlow

My reason for asking is that Joseph spent his childhood in Gloucester where his father, Thomas Abel was a Victualler with the family owning The Fox Inn located in Mercers Lane Gloucester. Members of the family owned the Inn for almost 100 years. Before becoming a Victualler, Thomas Abel was apprenticed to William Murcott as a cabinet maker/joiner.

Before son Joseph Abel moved to Micheldean to live in 1822 at the latest, he was a Surgeon in the Army. First record discovered to date was in July 1805 when he and his brother William became Freemen of The City of Gloucester. Joseph was listed a Surgeon.

My current thinking is that he gained his Medical Qualifications by being apprenticed to another Surgeon hopefully in Gloucester. Also hopefully this apprenticeship would have been listed in the above register.

Also looking for more apprenticeship records for his Father ,Thomas.

Any help greatly appreciated.

But wait there's more, Does anyone know if early Kings School Gloucester pupil records might be available somewhere ?

Thank you

Sid Toomey

It may be of interest that his brother Thomas Abell may be the ensign commissioned into the 60th foot in 1813. His commission is up for auction at present at Canterbury Auction Galleries.(The Saleroom.com)

Hi
Thank you for your post. This is the same Thomas Abell. In the Officers Commission which is up for Auction on the Internet, there is mention of his being Commissioned in to Captain Leonard Gibbons Company of the 60th Regiment of Foot.
Other sources place both of these men in Capetown with the 1st Battalion of the 60th Regiment of Foot in 1813/1814.
National Archives Statement of Service for Lieutenant Thomas Abell (Who later died in India) shows that he served in Capetown.
The South African Calendar lists the names and ranks of members of the 60th Regiment of Foot who were there in 1813 etc.

Is he someone you are researching ?
A good discovery, i don't know how on earth you could have found it.

PS at this time, his brother Joseph Abell was also serviing with the Regiment but in a different Battalion and in Canada.

Thomas Abell obtained his Ensigns Commission by Purchase and his Lieutenancy by promotion, not by Purchase.
Joseph Abell obtained his by promotion not by Purchase.

Sid Toomey

Hi Kate,
I am new to this site and have just picked up this thread. I currently live in the house named Forest Lodge you talk about, and have been researching the house history, and the involvement of John Robert William Abell and Joseph Abell and others.
The history is confusing not least because his father Joseph Abell (the army surgeon) lived in the house next door (Forest House). I have been in contact with Sid Toomey and also the descendants of Joseph Abell in British Columbia, Somerset and Nottingham who have sent me much of the family history. Part of the confusion of the house history is that the two houses quoted are next door to each other, and some of the newspaper reports must be wrong! Also John moved in and out: he was here in 1851 just after the house was built; the house was sold in 1855; had different owners; and John ended up renting it back in 1876 until his death in 1904. John went bankrupt along the way. I cannot find a gravestone for him in the churchyard, but his father's is still there and in good condition.

The house is much the same now as in the picture from about 1902 you will have seen, and an early plan is on the deeds of 1855 that I have. I have been trying to piece together where the servants lived. Whilst digging the garden I have found what I think must be the remains of three old cottages that were here before they were knocked down to build the current house.

Are you still looking into this? If so I will write out a potted history of the Abells and this house (and Forest House next door) if you are interested. I need to do that for myself anyway. I have some of the original deeds (dating from 1855) and have studied others in the Gloucester Archives back to 1832 before the house was built and Joseph owned the land. Some are mis-labelled which also makes it confusing.

Are you in the UK? The current postcode is GL17 0BT if you want to look it up on Google Maps. Forest Lodge (formerly called Forrest Cottage, and now called Merrin Cottage or just Merrin), and Forest House, are the only two addresses with that post code, and are clearly marked on the old OS maps you can find on Know Your Place).

Ian