I'm researching Philip James born 1833 to Thomas James and Mary (? Virgo). I believe that he is my 2 x great grandfather but his name wasn't listed on the brith record for my great grandmother Elizabeth Sarah Parry. I recently found a death record for her and she listed Philip James as her father. I have managed to do a fairly good tree for the James family and it does link into what I already had for Elizabeth Sarah Parry's family but I think that is due to some intermarriage going on between James, Kear, Watkins and Simmonds families. So I would really like to find members who can link in with my James tree as I have not been able to confirm it with good DNA matches as yet. Anybody here have Philip James 1833 in there tree?

Year: 1821
Month: May
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: PARRY
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: Forest of Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Surname: HYETT
Brides_Forenames: Esther
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Forest of Dean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Signature_or_Mark: Both Mark
Witness_1: Mark of Thomas Hyett
Witness_2: Charles Fennell
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar
Event: Marriage
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 27
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1832
Month: Jan
Day: 29
Parents_Surname: PARRY
Child_Forenames: Mary
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Esther
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Etloe
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: G C Jordan Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P50 IN1/1
Page_Number: 126
Parish_Chapel: Blakeney

1841 Viney Hill
Robert Hyett Male 75 1766 Gloucestershire,
William Parry Male 50 1791 Gloucestershire,
Esther Parry Female 40 1801 Gloucestershire,
George Parry Male 15 1826 Gloucestershire,
William Parry Male 15 1826 Gloucestershire,
Charles Parry Male 14 1827 Gloucestershire,
Thomas Parry Male 12 1829 Gloucestershire,
Mary Parry Female 9 1832 Gloucestershire,
Ann Parry Female 6 1835 Gloucestershire,
Edmond Parry Male 4 1837 Gloucestershire,
John Parry Male 1 1840 Gloucestershire,

1851 Newland St Coleford
Sarah Harper Head Married Female 49 1802 Grocer Newland, Gloucestershire,
William Harper Son Unmarried Male 32 1819 Grocer Newland, Gloucestershire, E
Richard Harper Son Unmarried Male 24 1827 Tailor Newland, Gloucestershire,
Mary Parry Servant Unmarried Female 19 1832 Servant domestic Blakeney, Gloucestershire,

Child Surname Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
PARRY Charlotte 1859 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 15 74
PARRY William Edwin 1861 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 16 416

1861 Viney Hill
William Webb Head Unmarried Male 40 1821 Cordwainer... East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Mary Parry Housekeeper Unmarried Female 29 1832 House keeper Awre, Gloucestershire, England
Charlotte Parry Daughter - Female 1 1860 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
William E Parry Son - Male 0 1861 - West Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
PARRY Fanny 1867 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 22 480
WEBB Mary Matilda Parry PARRY 1869 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 26 32

1871 Yorkley
William Webb Head - Male 53 1818 - Gloucestershire, Shoemaker
Mary Webb Wife - Female 43 1828 - Gloucestershire,
William Webb Son - Male 10 1861 - Gloucestershire,
James Webb Son - Male 6 1865 - Gloucestershire,
Fanny Webb Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Gloucestershire,
Mary Webb Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Gloucestershire,
James Morgan Boarder - Male 30 1841 - Gloucestershire,

Deaths Dec 1872 (>99%)
WEBB William 52 Westbury S. 6a 156

Year: 1872
Month: Nov
Day: 5
Surname: WEBB
Forenames: William
Residence: Westbury Union
Age_at_death: 52
Officiating_Minister: BL Poyntz Curate
Event: Burial
Page_No: 20
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Child Surname Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
PARRY Elizabeth Sarah 1875 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 32 144

1881 Viney Hill
Mary Parry Head Widow Female 52 1829 - Awre, Gloucestershire,
William Parry Son Single Male 20 1861 Coal miner West Dean, Gloucestershire,
James Parry Son Single Male 17 1864 Coal miner East Dean, Gloucestershire,
Fanny Parry Daughter Single Female 14 1867 - West Dean, Gloucestershire,
Mary Parry Daughter Single Female 11 1870 - West Dean, Gloucestershire,
Elizabeth Parry Daughter Single Female 6 1875 - West Dean, Gloucestershire,

Year: 1884
Month: Oct
Day: 4
Surname: PARRY
Forenames: Mary
Residence: Viney Hill
Age_at_death: 55 years
Officiating_Minister: E. S. Smith
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: 679
Register_Reference: P348 IN 1/5
Page_No: 65
Parish_Chapel: Viney Hill

1891 Llanthony House, Bristol Road, Hempstead, Gloucester,
Michael J Vickridge Head Married Male 55 1836 Brick maker Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Hannah Vickridge Wife Married Female 55 1836 - Helston, Cornwall, England
Annie Kate Vickridge Daughter Single Female 23 1868 - Barnwood, Gloucestershire, England
Frederick Michael Vickridge Son Single Male 21 1870 Commercial traveller Barnwood, Gloucestershire, England
Sydney Herbert Vickridge Son - Male 15 1876 Scholar Barnwood, Gloucestershire, England
Ralph Aubrey Vickridge Son - Male 10 1881 Scholar Barnwood, Gloucestershire, England
Frederick Badcock Visitor Single Male 25 1866 Drapers assistant Taunton, Somerset, England
Elizabeth S Parry Servant - Female 14 1877 Servant domestic Blakeney, Gloucestershire, England

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)
Parry Elizabeth Sarah Bristol 6a 332
Wheeler George Francis Bristol 6a 332

1901 St Mary Street, Whitland, Narberth,Llangan East (Carmarthen),
George Wheeler Head Married Male 26 1875 Train examiner Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Wheeler Wife Married Female 24 1877 - Yorkley, Gloucestershire, England

1911 29 Albion Street S Thomas,Exeter
George Wheeler Head Married Male 36 1875 Railway carriage examiner Newnham Glosshire
Elizabeth Wheeler Wife Married Female 34 1877 - (Yorkney!) Glosshire
Mary Wheeler Daughter Single Female 9 1902 School Whitland S Wales Carmanshire
Muriel Wheeler Daughter Single Female 6 1905 School Whitland S Wales Carmanshire
John Wheeler Son Single Male 3 1908 - Whitland S Wales Carmanshire

Births Jun 1911 (>99%)
Wheeler Lilian B M St.Thomas 5b 57

Deaths Dec 1911 (>99%)
Wheeler George F 36 St.Thomas 5b 70

1921 E J, B M and J Wheller in Exeter ?

Heading for Sydney Australia
On P&O line Berrina 3rd September 1925
Mrs Elizabeth S WHEELER cook ager 48 and Lilian Betty domestic aged 14 of Pinewood Budleigh Salterton Devon

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Year: 1823
Month: May
Day: 29
Grooms_Surname: JAMES
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: Hundred of St. Briavels
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Surname: VIRGOE
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Hundred of St. Briavels
Brides_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Mark
Witness_1: Mark of John James
Witness_2: Mark of Sarah Bath
Other_Witnesses: Charles Fennell
Officiating_Minister: Fred K. Wilkinson Off[iciatin]g Minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 37
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1833
Month: [not stated]
Day: 0
Parents_Surname: JAMES
Child_Forenames: Philip
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Forest of Dean
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: G Colebrook Jordan
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Follows entry for 3rd March and before April entry
Register_Reference: P50 IN1/1
Page_Number: 133
Parish_Chapel: Blakeney

1841 Oldcroft
Thomas James Male 45 1796 Gloucestershire, England
Mary James Female 40 1801 Gloucestershire, England
Thomas James Male 14 1827 Gloucestershire, England
Phillip James Male 8 1833 Gloucestershire, England
Joseph James Male 6 1835 Gloucestershire, England
William James Male 3 1838 Gloucestershire, England
Harriet James Female 0 1841 Gloucestershire, England

1851 Oldcroft
Thomas James Head Married Male 55 1796 Labourer Gloucestershire, England
Mary James Wife Married Female 52 1799 - Gloucestershire, England
Thomas James Son Unmarried Male 24 1827 Cole miner Gloucestershire, England
Phillip James Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Cole miner Gloucestershire, England
Joseph James Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Cole miner Gloucestershire, England
Harriett James Daughter - Female 10 1841 Scholar Gloucestershire, England

1861 Oldcroft
Thomas James Head Married Male 65 1796 Formerly coal miner West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Mary James Wife Married Female 63 1798 Wife of coal miner Awre, Gloucestershire, England
Philip James Son Unmarried Male 27 1834 Coal miner West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Joseph James Son Unmarried Male 25 1836 Coal miner West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Maryann James Granddaughter - Female 2 1859 - West Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1871 loyal Foresters Inn Oldcroft nr Yorkley
Thomas James Head - Male 74 1797 - Gloucestershire, England
Mary James Wife - Female 71 1800 - Gloucestershire, England
Phillip James Son - Male 34 1837 - Gloucestershire, England71

1881 Oldcroft
Mary James Head Widow Female 82 1799 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Phillip James Son Single Male 48 1833 Coal miner West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Edwin Turner Grand son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar West Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1891 Oldcroft
Philip James Head Single Male 58 1833 Coal miner West Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1901 Oldcroft
Philip James Head Single Male 67 1834 No occupation Oldcroft, Gloucestershire, England

Year: 1901
Month: Oct
Day: 10
Surname: JAMES
Forenames: Phillip
Residence: Oldcroft
Age_at_death: 68
Officiating_Minister: S. Morgan
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: Grave No. 575
Notes:
Register_Reference: P348 IN 1/6
Page_No: 58
Parish_Chapel: Viney Hill

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thanks so much, Slowhands for all this info. It is really helpful. This Charles Fennel is interesting as he appears in two documents. I think Philip James was an extended relative of Mary Parry as well as being the father of her youngest child Elizabeth Sarah. I have managed to get fairy good evidence from DNA matches for my Hyatt/Parry line so I know at lease that is correct. Also I have a lot of James and Kear matched leading back to Warren James who I believe married another Mary Parry. I guess these are all common names in that area.

???

Although this Philip JAMES on the Gloucestershire Genelogical Database in 1872 is aged 34 (c1838)- not quite sure whether he might be Philip James born 1834) as they are both from West Dean and Coal Miner.

On the 1861 Census Philip JAMES is aged 27 (c1834) and on the 1871 Census, he is aged 34 (c1837)

-----

Gloucestershire Genelogical Database

1872

JAMES Philip - unmarried, Parish : West Dean
Reference: Q/Gc6/6
Occupation: Miner
Catalog: GOAL

Date of Committal: 1 Jan 1872

Does the committal date refer to prison? I know Mary Parry was in and out of prison so maybe that was how they met. They jailed Mary for not having the money to buy her children shoes and them having to miss school. Her son was also in trouble with the law for stealing apples! No doubt starving! Aged 15 and 4 ft 7 inches.

This Philip James born 1834 I think is the son of Warren James and Ann Kear who are my 5 x great grandparents. The other Philip James born to Mary Virgoe and Thomas James had a sister names Harriett. I was drawn to him as Elizabeth Sarah's mother was listed as Harriett (no known surname) when in fact it was Mary. It also said her soiree was John Henry Wheeler and that was her son. She sadly died in a home for destitute women in NSW and I think she was in a bad way mentally hence the mistakes in her family history.

Sorry, parents William James and Elizabeth James.

No idea whether this is your Mary PARRY, but British Newspapers on line, do have a few articles .

Gloucester Journal - 17 October 1874

COLEFORD

POLICE COURT, THURSDAY

Mary PARRY, a single woman was brought up before Major Davies, charged in September last unlawfully deserting her children who became chargeable to the Union of Monmouth, Hereford and Gloucester. Prisoner was committed for seven days.

----

Gloucestershire Chronicle - 15 January 1876

FOREST OF DEAN, COLEFORD PETTY SESSION, Tuesday, Before Sir J Campbell Bart, and Major Davies.

Mary PARRY, of Yorkley, was summoned for neglecting to have her child vaccinated. It was proved that defendant had had letters sent to her, warning her to attend before the medical officer, but she took no notice of them. One day a message was sent to her by a woman named Morgan, and an impudent answer was returned. She was ordered to pay the costs, 5s. 6d. within a fortnight.

----

Gloucester Journal - Saturday 12 April 1879

COLEFORD POLICE COURT

Mary PARRY, of Yorkley, appeared to a summons preferred by the School Board Authority, on a charge of neglecting to send her childen to school. Defendant said she had no boots for her children. Order made. Mrs PARRY was directed to apply to the guardians for boots,

Yep! That’s her. Bless her. Poor wee soul X

Just found an article, Gloucestershire Chronicle - 6 January 1872

NEWNHAM, Petty Session - Monday : Before Capt. Goold, Sir Thos. Crawley-BOEVEY, Bart, Edwin Crawshay etc. etc. etc.

John HATTON and Ambrose HODGES, of Newnham, and Philip JAMES of Oldcroft, were charged with stealing 22lbvs of bacon from the Victoria Hotel taproom, the property of Mrs Ellen HAWKINS, the landlady.

etc. etc. The prisoners were committed for trial at the quarter sessions.

I have John Hatton in my tree who married Ann James born 1782 and the daughter or Warren James and Ann Kear. Ann James is my 4th great aunt. Family of rogues.. lol

I'll add this article, in case it's relevant...

South Wales Daily News - Tuesday 9 November 1886

SERIOUS POACHING AFFRAY IN DEAN FOREST

A KEEPER BADLY BEATEN

A serious poaching affray occurred in a wood upon the Lydney Park Estate, Dean Forest, about 5.30 on Sunday afternoon.
Quite recently Mr C Bathurst, of The Park, Sydney, has let the whole of his extensive shooting preserves to a Mr Dymock, who employed a gamekeeper named Richard JAMES to look after his interests.

The keeper heard shots being fired near one of the woods where he had been feeding pheasants and he proceeded alone in the direction of the place. Almost immediately he came across two men with double-barrelled guns whom he knew well to be confirmed poachers. He told them his suspicion, and said he must search them.

The first, a man named RICHARD BEARD, a labourer, of Oldcroft, showed no opposition, but, the other whose name was PHILIP JAMES, also a labourer, of OLDCROFT and who is is elderly man, refused to be interfered with.

The keeper persisted, whereupon JAMES knocked him down, and both men then beat and kicked him whilest he was on the ground. Then they had satisfied themselves they left him. The poor fellow crawled away to his home, and was placed in a trap and conveyed to the surgery at Blakeney.

Drs WEBB and IRWIN, who were in church, were at once called to see the wounded man, and found him suffering from severe cuts about the face, head and head, while was body was bruised all over. he is in a very weak state from loss of blood.

Oh my goodness! How awful. Did he survive his injuries do you know?

Just been checking on Rootschat Gloucestershire.

There is an old thread: which started, Saturday 20 May 06 from a Claire FRASER

Heading:

James Family, Oldcroft, West Dean

Which starts, I have just started research on the above family for an uncle. Names are:

Thomas JAMES born 1796
Thomas JAMES born 1824

Thomas Philip JAMES born 8.12.1867 married Sarah Ann SANDFORD 1889

John William JAMES born 11.11.1890 ( My Uncle's father) siblings, George, Steven, Sarah, Elsei. Married Gertrude Elizabeth Ellen Watkins 1.04.1918.

Then the Contributors, basically quote the same 1841 census...

Thomas James 45 collier
Mary 40
Thomas 14
Philip 8
Joseph 6
William 3
Harriet 6 months

---

I found this just by Googling: Philip JAMES - and it comes under the heading... as above (on Rootschat). If you don't belong, its free, just have to register.

I have Harriett as the daughter of Mary Virgoe and Thomas James. She married a John Turner.

Hello ,,,Have just seen yr message regarding Phillip James of 1833,& have him in my family tree
as I am a decendant of Phillip James bn 1767 Am on Ancestry, with a DNA result

Roy

CarrieBEE Ref Phillip James 1833, AS my records go ,don't think he was ever married.

Roy

Hi,
Thanks for your reply. What is your username on Ancestry? Mine is carrieb20. I'm also on 23&Me, My Heritage and FTDNA. There is a lot of conflicting information on some of those Ancestry tree. Very confusing and frustrating.

Looks like a candidate

Year: 1796
Month: Mar
Day: 27
Parents_Surname: JAMES
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname: nee](Marshall Spinster])
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar & Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: S[on]
Notes: Blakeney Chapel
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 473
Parish_Chapel: Awre

going further back needs much more research as there appear to be several Philip/Mary JAMES in the area at a similar time - so sorting offspring could be very challenging - yet to find a MARSHALL marriage record

Year: 1754
Month: Sep
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: JAMES
Grooms_Forenames: Phillip:
Groom_Condition: Widower
Brides_Surname: SAUNDERS
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Condition: spinst[e]r
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: [1]Saturday[symbol for] [2]See the other Regist[e]r Book
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 328
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1767
Month: Sep
Day: 6
Parents_Surname: JAMES
Child_Forenames: Philip
Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Jno Sargeaunt Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: S[on] of
Notes: Blakeney Chapel
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 438
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1787
Month: Feb
Day: 19
Grooms_Surname: JAMES
Grooms_Forenames: Philip
Groom_Condition: B[achelo]r
Brides_Surname: WANKLYN
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Condition: Sp[inste]r
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar
Event: Marriage
Notes: BTs Brides surname shown as Wanklin
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 346
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1787
Month: May
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: JAMES
Child_Forenames: Philip
Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar & Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: [1]S[on] of [2]b[or]n May 25 priv[atel]y b[aptise]d rec[eive]d into Church June 24
Notes: Blakeney Chapel. BT's show date as Jun 24
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 459
Parish_Chapel: Awre

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

There is a lot of conflicting information on some of those Ancestry tree. Very confusing and frustrating.

When we set about creating this site, the vision was to share / acquire / transcribe additional data to assist research , at that time online information was sparse, census data 1881, 1851 and I think 1841 were reasonable accessible online.

A number of trees will no doubt go back to the early days and perhaps lack "triangulation" of data, some will be best guess....

Todays challenge is very similar take as much information as you can with source tags if possible and assemble it , hopefully with data that cross checks i.e. dates / children's names to a fair degree of confidence.

However once you go back beyond 1841 , it gets harder to correlate data to get high degree of confidence

Its all part of the fun or challenge

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Yes, very true. it doesn't help when in my situation here, Philip James was not the husband of Mary Parry so not paper trail. I am relying on DNA. Also, I have another James line through another part of my tree.

CarrieBEE,Ref Phillip James of Oldcroft
I have been researching since the 1980s,visits to record offices was the thing then,
going through file after file,record upon record. Now Ancestry is not perfect, a lot of information tends to be copied from other researchers, quite often leading one in an entirely different path without the correct result. People tended to stay in the same area in the early days. DNA has helped in some way,but unfortunately,not for our ancestors. My contact details for Ancestry are jamesrandj5 , Regards Roy

I've just sent you an invite to my tree on ancestry. Perhaps you could have a look at it if you have time and let me know your thoughts about my Philip James. I may well have it all wrong about him. In the mea time I;ll looks at other possibilities. We have no Dan match it seems.

Mary certainly had mixed fortunes - 1873-1880
she seems to have settled with William WEBB and had a number of children with him before his death in 1872, then Elizabeth Sarah in 1875 father unknown before her own death in 1884.

I wonder if she is in the Workhouse records for Westbury on Severn

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

I know she had a few brushes with the law. One for for not sending the kids to school. She said she had no money to buy boots and the other was for leaving them at home to go to work. The thing is...her siblings all seems to have done reasonably well in life. I wonder if she had a bit of a learning disability.