So this is how we add Sir Lloyd Elsmore into our tree. William Elsmore b.1795 had a daughter Caroline who,with Edwin Lewis, had an illegitimate son Henry Alfred. Henry Alfred married Ann Thomas and their son George Richard ( bap.on Sept 26th 1875)was the father of Lloyd Elsmore born 16th Jan 1913. George Richard Elsmore died on 22 Feb 1954 and his wife Minnie died on 24 Oct 1947. They are both buried at Hillsborough New Zealand - I have the cemetary records - so we have someone famous in our tree at last!

Regards Catherine

I am afraid I cannot go beyond Albert & Elizabeth's children.

Marfell Beach is located as you have stated.

With regard to the Marfell connection, although there have no doubt been other Marfell emigrants, the 2 most significant were Richard Marfell born 31.5.1864 Cinderford, who emigrated to Littleton, Christchurch on the Marlborough in 1881. He married a New Zealand lady Margaret Gammie in Hawkes Bay and they had 9 children. I met one their great great granddaughters when she visited the Forest of Dean and still keep in touch.
The other perhaps more significant emigrant was Edward Marfell born 1853 Clytha, Mon. he married Fanny Jones and emigrated to Dunedin 6 Sep 1879 on ship Wanganui. They settled in the New Plymouth area and I have considerable data on this family, the Marfell School and Post Office are named after this family. Marfell School have several pages about the Marfell Family in their literature, of which I have a copy. The head teacher visited a school in Usk on a sort of exchange visit. Edward Marfell & Fanny had 7 children, unfortunately 2 were killed in action in WW1. I can forward information to you if you are interested, use my email link.

Jim Ashton

1881
Charles Treherne abt 1847 Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Treherne abt 1849 Tidenham, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Treherne abt 1873 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Herbert Treherne abt 1880 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Reubina Treherne abt 1876 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Temperence Treherne abt 1878 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Charles Trehince abt 1847 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Trehince abt 1848 Tidenham, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Trehince abt 1873 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Bessie Trehince abt 1885 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Herbert Trehince abt 1879 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Lenord Trehince abt 1882 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Rubina Trehince abt 1876 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Tommy Trehince abt 1878 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1901
Record
Albert Treharne abt 1873 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth Treharne abt 1874 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire
Henry C Treharne abt 1897 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
William A Treharne abt 1899 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire

Although my main area of research is the Marfell family, my grandmother being Jane Kate Marfell, she married Tom Treherne, so I of course have an interest in the Treherne family. The parents of Albert Treherne are indeed Charles Treherne & Elizabeth. If you are interested I can go back a further 3 generations to one of my 4 times great grandparents, George Treherne 1748 & Susanna White, plus the White's back a further 2 generations.

This has been the first time I have noted the name Treherne on this wonderful web site and your entry encouraged me to do a search on the Treherne family. Although I did most of my researches a few years ago at the Alvin Street,Gloucester Records Office, I have just gained more from my search on this site, including I am ashamed to say the previously unknown detail of my mothers baptism !! as it took place in the United Methodist Church, Drybrook.

If you are interested I have a lot of information about the Marfell families that emigrated to New Zealand. I visited New Zealand in 2005 but unfortunately my month long organised tour did not include the area which includes the Marfell School, Marfell Beach or Marfell Post Office.

Jim Ashton

agreed but in the meantime the christian names are George Richard which seems a strong match :-)

Hopefully they are related - just have to establish final link between Henry Alfred and son George Elsmore -marriage certificate of George required to see fathers name - cannot find him on Forest of Dean parish records but know they married. Yes I have all of Lloyd Elsmore's brothers and sisters -did some sleuthing and had help from kind lady called Jan New Zealand library service.

According to passenger list George Elsmore and Minnie Nelmes emmigrated to New Zealand from Southampton to Auckland in 1925. At the time they had three sons and three daughters.
Ronald b.1904
Minnie b.1907
William b.1909
Gwen b. 1910
Dorothy b. 1912
Lloyd b.1914
and there was another son Jack born in New Zealand but I don't know when but it must have been very soon after arrival as Minnie was nearly 50 when she emmigrated. So there were 4 sons and three daughters which tallies with the information in the biography of Sir LLoyd by Pauline Garus.

Hope this is what you wanted.

Regards Catherine

Marriage ?
Name: Frederick Nelmes
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
DISTRICT: Chepstow
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11a
Page: 18

1861
Frederick Nelms abt 1834 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelms abt 1835 How, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelms abt 1856 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Ellen Nelms abt 1858 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
George Nelms abt 1854 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
William Nelms abt 1860 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1871
Frederick Nelmes abt 1834 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelmes abt 1835 Elton, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelmes abt 1857 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Eliza Nelmes abt 1865 Whitecroft, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Ellen Nelmes abt 1859 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
George Nelmes abt 1855 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
William Nelmes abt 1861 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1881
Fredrick Nelmes abt 1836 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelmes abt 1836 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Nelmes abt 1878 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Annie Nelmes abt 1880 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Edwin Nelmes abt 1872 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Minie Nelmes abt 1876 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Nelmes abt 1861 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
nearby
Charlotte Treherne abt 1819 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Fredrick Nelms abt 1835 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelms abt 1837 Elton, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Nelms abt 1878 Bream Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Annie Nelms abt 1880 Bream Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Edwin Nelms abt 1872 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1901
Frederick Nelmes abt 1835 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Carline Nelmes abt 1835 Awre, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire
Annie Nelmes abt 1880 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire
Minnie Nelmes abt 1876 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire

Many thanks for the information - I am going to send for George and Minnie Nelmes marriage certificate.

Regards Catherine

Year: 1875
Month: Sep
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: ELSEMORE
Child_Forenames: George Richard
Fathers_Forenames: Henry Alfred
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Breams Eaves
Occupation: Miner
Officiating_Minister: William N Truss Officiating Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Sponsers George Batten Albert Batten Ann Batten
Notes:
Register_Reference: P57 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 29
Parish_Chapel: Bream

1881
Henry Elsmore abt 1846 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Ann Elsmore abt 1838 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth E. Elsmore abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Richard G. Elsmore abt 1875 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Kear abt 1811 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Henry Elsmore abt 1842 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Ann Elsmore abt 1839 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Elsmore abt 1873 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Elsmore abt 1875 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Elsmore abt 1882 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1901
Henry Elsmore abt 1841 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Ann Elsmore abt 1839 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire
George Elsmore abt 1876 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
Henry Elsmore abt 1882 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire

Name: Minnie Nelmes
Name: George Richard Elsmore
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 58

You must live in New Zealand if you spoke to Lloyd Elsmore. Caroline went on to make a very respectable marriage to Thomas Batten and her son by Edwin Lewis was bought up by her parents William and Mary. Edwin Lewis was a hoop shaver which I think means that he made the hoops for wooden barrels. It was Henry Alfred - Halford was a miss spelling.

Regards Catherine

Caroline ELSMORE(1822 West Dean Gloucestershire Eng-14 Sept 1885 Gloucestershire Eng)
bd.(18 Sept 1885 St James Church Bream Gloucestershire Eng)at age 64
partner was Edwin LEWIS
Caroline ELSMORE as buried on 18 Sep 1885 in Parish Church of St.James, Bream, Gloucestershire, Eng
1.Henry Alfred/Halford ELSMORE(14 Dec 1842 Newland Gloucestershire Eng-25 Oct 1919 Bream Woodside Gloucestershire Eng)bpt.22 Jan 1843 Saint James, Bream, Gloucester, England
md.09 Nov 1872 St James Church Beam Gloucestershire Eng Ann THOMAS (1848)
Ann THOMAS’s parents were Richard THOMAS and ?
1.Elizabeth Annie ELSMORE(19 March 1874 Breams Gloucestershire Eng)
md.16 April 1896 Bream, Gloucestershire, England
Albert TREHERNE(bapt 19 March 1873 Breams Gloucestershire Eng)Collier
Albert TREHERNE’s parents were Charles TREHERNE and Elizabeth ?
1.Henry Charles TREHERNE (04 February 1897 Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
bapt.10 March 1897 Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
2.William Albert TREHERNE(09 January 1899 Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
bapt. 09 January 1899 Forest of Dean Bible Christian Circuit Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
3.Doris May TREHERNE(21 January 1902 Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
bapt.(21 January 1902 Forest of Dean Bible Christian Circuit Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
4.Mabel Annie TREHERNE(09 April 1911 Woodside, Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
bapt.(09 April 1911 Forest of Dean Bible Christian Circuit Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
5.Elizabeth Florence TREHERNE(23 February 1915 Bream, Gloucestershire, England)
bapt.(23 February 1915 Forest of Dean Bible Christian Circuit Bream, Gloucestershire, England)

2.Henry ELSMORE( 1882 Bream Gloucestershire Eng) Collier
md.01 Aug 1904 Daisy Mary LEE( 1879 Bream Gloucestershire Eng)
Daisy Mary LEE’s parents were Edward Thomas LEE and ?

This was a solitary mining accident and as such is not recorded although I suspect it would be in the coroners records as an inquest was held. I do not know if these records are held in the Gloucestershire Records office.
However I do have the following that you might find interesting.

On the 10th November 1842, according to Wood’s Laws of the Dean Forest, William Elsmore aged 47 of Bream was awarded the 'Lass of the Mill' gale and was registered as a free miner. Could this have been connected with his son James's death? The mine later passed to 'Peglar' and became known as Peglar's Drift. It is situated by the track from Oakwood Mill Bottom to Noxon Park.

The actual wording is as follows: February 7th 1843 to William Elsmore of Bream for a level situate at a place called Quabbs on the east side of and near to Noxon Park, to get coal from the Coleford High Delf “ Lass of the Mill”

Perhaps you can heip me out? I am trying to tie in Sir Lloyd Elsmore born 1914 in Bream, son of George Elsmore and Minnie Nelmes married 1902. The family emmigrated to New Zealand in 1924 I hope that George's father may have been Henry Alfred Elsmore, illegitimate son of Caroline Elsmore and daughter of William Elsmore b 1795 and Mary Morgan. I suspect I will have to get the marriage certificate of George & Minnie to see who his father was unless of course you know!

Regards Catherine

Year: 1861
Month: Jul
Day: 10
Surname: ELSMORE
Forenames: James
Residence: Bream
Age_at_death: 35
Officiating_Minister: Cornelius Witherby Incumbent
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P57 IN 1/17
Page_No: 47
Parish_Chapel: Bream

James Elsmore was my gg grandfather. He married Ellen Walklett on the 11th June 1851 at St James's Church at Bream. They had five children.
James Frederick bap Dec 12th 1852 St James Bream
William Herbert born Jan 9th 1855
Priscilla Ann born July 7th 1857
Arthur John Thomas born June 6th 1859
Henry Albert bap Apr 26th 1862 St James's Bream

James senior died on 8th July 1861 in a pit accident so Henry was born after his death.