Thanks again

Rosemary

----

Thread continued

On the 1851 census there is a James Woore age 73 who seems to be the widower James who married Ann Howells in 1807 (but see my posts to Pauline) and he gives his place of birth as Welsh Bicknor. Interestingly on the 1851 census there is also a Matthew Woore age 70 at Goodrich who gives his place of birth as Welsh Bicknor but I can't find a baptism for either him or James even though the relevant dates are online. I thought it might be useful to look at earlier baptism at Welsh Bicknor to see if there were any more clues.

However it is also possible that James who married in 1804 is a different James from the one who married in 1807 and that the Marstow records might show his baptism and help in establishing his relationship to Martha. I hope all this makes sense!

Rosemary

depending where he actually lived the area is possibly in Goodrich records as well as Marstow .....

Herefordshire Record Office

Marstow Parish Records [1707-1908] - ref. AG37
Goodrich Parish Records [1558-1952] - ref. BF16

L24/14 2 April, 1935
Contents:
Draft scheme for uniting the Benefices of Goodrich, Welsh Bicknor and Marstow, confirmed

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Marstow/index.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Foy/index.html

I wonder ?

JAMES HOAR
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 06 OCT 1775 Foy, Hereford, England
Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: RICHARD HOAR
Mother: ELISABETH
--------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

----------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C145911 1661 - 1861 0992149 Film NONE
Sheet: 00

RICHARD HOAR
-------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ELISABETH JONES
Marriage: 23 JAN 1772 Foy, Hereford, England
-------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M145911 1661 - 1849 0992149 Film NONE
Sheet: 00

Rosemary, do you have a possible direct connection with James or are you just trying to complete the whole picture?

The Marriage images/register may have a gap 1754-56

---

Added by admin:
Missing 1760-1771 Welsh Bicknor Records

I have been looking at baptisms for Welsh Bicknor but on the list of available records there seems to be a gap between 1760 and 1771 and I am wondering if these records are missing. I am not sure if I am asking the right person but you seem to know a lot about the area!

Thanks
Rosemary

It's good to have the 1851 census record too - definitely seems to be same family as 1841 - interesting too that Thomas Howels is now listed as Thomas Hore.

I looked on FreeBMD and found-
WOORE Eliza reg Dec1842 Ross
WHORE Harriot Whore reg Dec 1843 Ross (Whore is given as a surname and also first name)

Even if Anne was born c1801 as the 1851 census suggests, she still could not be the Ann Howells who married James in 1807 but she might possibly be his step daughter which might explain the confusing information for the baptisms of the three Howell children in Goodrich.

James born c 1778 at Welsh Bicknor remains a bit of a mystery as there is no baptism for him at Welsh Bicknor unless he is older than stated on the 1851 census. There seems to be a gap in the available baptism records for Welsh Bicknor before 1771 but hopefully the records for Goodrich may throw up some new information when they become available on-line. It would be interesting to see if there is a burial between 1804 and 1807 for the Ann who married James Woore in 1804 and also if there are any children from the marriage.

I guess we will need to be patient!

Rosemary

Found the 1841 of James Warr but if you enlarge it could be Woor and then found the 1851 Goodrich James Hore 73 brn Bicknor Monmouth!!!! Blind
Ann Hore 50 brn Goodrich, Thomas so 19 Lab Goodrich, Eliza da 08 Scholar Goodrich, Harriet gd 07 Goodrich

so really the Ann in 1841 should read 40yrs?

The search goes on........

bye for now Pauline

It is good to make contact with another distant cousin!

Like you I wonder if James Woore who married Ann Davies in 1804 ( and who is definitely connected to Martha Woore) is the same James who married Ann Howells in 1807 and the James who died in 1853.

I have tried to find James on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. I can't find anything for 1851 but for 1841 I found someone who is transcribed as James Ware but who is more likely James Woore or Wore. He is living in Goodrich and his age is given as 60 and with him is Ann with the same surname age 36 (age looks more like 36 than 56). In the same household are the following all with the surname Howels - Ann age 18, Henry 14, Thomas 9 and Elizabeth 6. This is interesting because of the possible second marriage to Ann Howells in 1807 but the Ann in the census age 36 would be too young to be his wife from that marriage.

I looked for the baptisms of the Howells children at Goodrich and found the following confusing information -
Henry Howells bapt 27 Apr 1828 illigitimate son of Anne residence Copped Wood
Anne Howells bapt 10 Sept 1829 dau of James and Anne of Copped Wood. Father's occ - labourer
Thomas Howells bapt 29 July 1832 mother Ann single woman residence Copped Wood

I'm not sure what all this amount to at the moment but I would really like to find out who James is and what his connection is to Martha!

With best wishes

Rosemary

I seem to be a generation adrift of Dave and Pauline as Sarah Coleman is only my 2nd great grandmother!

Rosemary

----

Thread continued

John - 1803
Thomas - 1805 (Pauline's 3rd great-grandfather)
Comfort - 1807 (My 3rd great-grandmother)

Courtfield Catholic Chapel, Welsh Bicknor, entered with the surname of COLEMAN.

Mary - 1809
Sarah - 1812 (Rosemary's 3rd great-grandmother)
William - 1814
Martha - 1818
Edward - 1825

All the above records are availalable on this site.

Good to hear from you, William & Martha are my 4xgt through their son Thomas 1805, so far all I have is:
Goodrich
Martha Hoar/Woar/Woore bap 15-12-1782 d/o John & Mary
sisters
Elizabeth bp/bur 1771, Sarah bap 1775, Anne 1779

As for James who married 1804 would he also be James who married again in 1807 a widower of Goodrich and died 1853 aged 77yrs, this would make him the right age to be a possible brother, as yet have found no bap

So far the only bap for a William Cole has been
Westbury on Severn
William Cole bap 21-07-1772 s/o Henry & Ann

I've not so far had any luck with the 1851 for Martha or her son John
bye for now Pauline

Entry_Number: 57
Year: 1837
Month: May
Day: 14
Grooms_Surname: YEMM
Grooms_Forenames: Edmund
Grooms_Age: [not
Groom_Condition: [not stated]
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: the Extraparochial part of the hundred of St Briav
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Surname: COLEMAN
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age: [not
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: the Extraparochial part of the hundred of St Briav
Brides_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Thomas Coleman
Witness_2: Mary Morris
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John Hardy - Perp[etual]: Cur[ate]:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: both of the Extraparochial part of the hundred of St Briavels
Notes:
Register_Reference: AG52/5
Page_Number: 19
Parish_Chapel: Lea

Martha HOAR born 15 Dec 1782 at Goodrich is my 4th great-grandmother and she died at Ruardean 1870.

Her marriage details which were only were added to the Parish Records database a few days ago:

Entry_Number:
Year: 1802
Month: Aug
Day: 1
Grooms_Surname: COAL
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: of this parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: HOAR
Brides_Forenames: Martha
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: of this parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of James Hoar
Witness_2: Thomas Jackson
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: William Prosser Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AW19/4
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Welsh Bicknor

<Goodrich transcription for this period is in progress>

Martha HOAR
-------------------------------------------

Event(s)
Birth: abt 1775/82

Goodrich,Herefordshire
Christening: 15 Dec 1782

Goodrich,Herefordshire,England
Death: 1870

Ruardean,Gloucestershire,England
Burial: 12 Jul 1870
Ruardean,Gloucestershire,England
-----------------------------------------
Parents
Father: John WOAR
Mother: Mary ?
----------------------------------
Marriage(s)
Spouse: William COLE
Marriage: 1 Aug 1802
Welsh Bicknor,Monmouthshire,Wales

I was very interested to read about your connection to Martha Woore/Hoar who married William Cole/Coal at Welsh Bicknor in 1802. I am descended from their daughter Sarah Cole/Coleman(born 1812 Welsh Bicknor) who married Edmund Yemm in 1837.

You mentioned that Martha Hoar was born at Goodrich in 1782 the daughter of John and Mary and I am wondering if you have been able to find a baptism for Martha and if so did she have a brother James? The reason I am asking about James is that a James Hoar was a witness at Martha's marriage to William Cole and William and Martha Cole were witnesses at the marriage of James Woore to Ann Davies on 2 July 1804 at Goodrich. How sure are you that the Martha born in Goodrich is the right one as on the 1861 census her place of birth is given as Monmouthshire (although the information was probably given by her son in law who maybe only guessed at it!) Have you been able to find Martha on the 1851 census?

I live near Aberdeen in Scotland and am not easily able to access the parish registers for Goodrich and I have not so far been able to find Martha Woore's baptism so I was really interested when I read your posting relating to Martha. Also have you been able to find a baptism for William Cole?

With best wishes
Ro