Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Fanny WILCOX 1843 Newland ( -1875 ?)

Fanny WILCOX 1843 Newland ( -1875 ?) (reply)

doreen scott — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:23:46 +0000

Thanks for all the information. The pieces are all coming together.

Doreen

Fanny WILCOX 1843 Newland ( -1875 ?) (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:42:59 +0000

this or parts of this may be Fanny (MORGAN)

Year: 1835
Month: Feb
Day: 27
Surname: WILCOX
Forenames: Harry
Residence: Coleford
Age_at_death: Years 43
Officiating_Minister: G Ridout Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/16
Page_No: 197
Parish_Chapel: Newland

1841
Mary Willcox abt 1801 Newland, Gloucestershire School Mistress
Marianne Willcox abt 1825 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Agnes Willcox abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Alice Willcox abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Sarah Willcox abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Eliza Willcox abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire

Year: 1830
Month: May
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: WILCOX
Child_Forenames: Alice Freer
Fathers_Forenames: Harry
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation: Taylor [sic]
Officiating_Minister: G Ridout Off[iciatin]g Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 96
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1825
Month: Apr
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: WILCOX
Child_Forenames: Mary Ann
Fathers_Forenames: Harry
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Forest
Occupation: Tailor
Officiating_Minister: D Jones Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 62
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

Year: 1843
Month: Feb
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: WILCOX
Child_Forenames: Fanny Adams
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Mary Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: Richd Davies Rector of Staunton
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: illegitimate
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 62
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

1851 Staunto Rd
Mary Wilcox abt 1801 U.S.S.R.[Surrey ?], Christchurch Head Newland, Gloucestershire School Mistress
Alice Wilcox abt 1830 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Charles Wilcox abt 1843 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Fanny Wilcox abt 1844 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter Newland, Gloucestershire

Name:Fanny Wilcox
Name: William Morgan
Year of Registration: 1862
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 69

Name: Frances Fanny Morgan
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 31
District: Rotherham
County: Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 419

<< could this be Fanny's mother marrying James Evans ?

Name: James Evans
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Ross
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester
Volume: 6a
Page: 898

Name: Mary Ann Wilcox
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Ross
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester
Volume: 6a
Page: 889

Oliver EVANS 1865, Lydbrook - (reply)

doreen scott — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:05:49 +0000

Hi there

My mother was Oliver Evans' daughter. He had eight daughters and one son and my mother was the second youngest child. She was named Olive after him. We have tried to trace Oliver for years and had given up when my daughter in law discovered he was originally known as Oliver Morgan, which was his step father's name.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Doreen

Oliver EVANS 1865 - 1923, Lydbrook - (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:28:33 +0000

suspect for William Morgan
Year: 1847
Month: Aug
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: MORGAN
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Tryphena
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: East Dean
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: R C W Collins
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born 17th June 1847
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number: 11
Parish_Chapel: Bishopswood

1851
William Morgan abt 1825 Joyford Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Tryphen Morgan abt 1826 Lydbrook Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Morgan abt 1834 Lydbrook Visitor West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Morgan abt 1847 Lydbrook Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriett Morgan abt 1849 Lydbrook Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
John Morgan abt 1850 Lydbrook Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1861
William Morgan abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Tryphena Morgan abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Morgan abt 1848 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriet Morgan abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Morgan abt 1851 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thommos Morgan abt 1856 Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Morgan abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

Name: Oliver Morgan
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 42

1871
William Morgan 23 Moorwood Coppice
Frances Morgan 25 Lydbrook
Olive Morgan 7 Lydbrook
William Morgan 1 Lydbrook

1881
William Morgan abt 1848 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England Head Birtley, Durham
Eliza A. Morgan abt 1853 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England Wife Birtley, Durham
Chris Morgan abt 1864 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England Boarder Birtley, Durham
William Morganabt 1870 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England Son Birtley, Durham
Harriet Morgan abt 1874 Rotherham, Yorkshire, England Daughter Birtley, Durham
John Morgan abt 1878 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England Son Birtley, Durham
Wilson [MILSOM] M. Morgan abt 1880 Backworth, Northumberland, England Son Birtley, Durham
Henry E. Morgan Backworth, Northumberland, England Son Birtley, Durham

1891
Oliver Evans abt 1864 Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England Head Gateshead, Durham
Ann Evans abt 1866 South Shields, Durham, England Wife Gateshead, Durham
Mary Evans abt 1885 South Shields, Durham, England Daughter Gateshead, Durham
Edith Evans abt 1888 South Shields, Durham, England Daughter Gateshead, Durham

1901
Oliver Evans abt 1864 Lydbrooke, Gloucestershire, England Head Lamesley, Durham
Ann Evans abt 1866 Birtley, Durham, England Wife Lamesley, Durham
Mary Evans abt 1885 Lamesley, Durham, England Daughter Lamesley, Durham
Edith Evans abt 1889 Lamesley, Durham, England Daughter Lamesley, Durham
James H Evans abt 1892 Sheriff Hill, Durham, England Son Lamesley, Durham
Isabella Evans abt 1894 Lamesley, Durham, England Daughter Lamesley, Durham
Frances H Evans abt 1896 Lamesley, Durham, England Daughter Lamesley, Durham
Ann Evans abt 1900 Lamesley, Durham, England Daughter Lamesley, Durham

Name: Olive Evans
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Chester Le Street
County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 624

1911
EVANS OLIVER M Chester le Street Durham
EVANS OLIVE F 1905 6 Chester le Street Durham
+others

Name: Oliver Evans
Year of Registration: 1923
Age 59
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb -Mar
District: Chester Le Street
County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 664

Name: Olive Evans
Spouse : Graham Walton
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1930
Registration district: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
Registration county (inferred): Northumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 345

Name: Doreen Walton
Mother's Maiden Surname: Evans
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1932
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 77

[thats far enough !]

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Carole Lewis — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:10:07 +0000

Dear Helena,
Sorry that I cannot answer these questions. I believe that William must have gone to Rotherham in search of work. He was a miner and I think there must have been a massive exodus of people looking for work from the forest. I think he returned to Lydbrook with Oliver, William, Edith and baby Harriet after Fanny died because he needed someone to look after them. He took them back to Mum! The following year he married Eliza in 1876. John was born in Lydbrook but they moved to the Durham/Newcastle around 1879/1880 presumably again looking for work. Neither Hester (Eliza's daughter and my Great grandmother) nor Edith were there for the Census in 1881. Hester was with her maternal grandfather who died a few months later and Edith was with William's parents.They might have just been breaks however because they were both in Newcastle by 1889 and had been there a while but living "out" as servants.

Both Harriet and Edith were Oliver's half sisters so that explains how his daughters came by their names. William would have been his half brother but of course he would have not been related to the other children.

Good luck
Carole

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Helenebabette — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:37:30 +0000

Dear Carole, One more post today before I get on with some real work! Oliver had a daughter called Edith too. She was listed on the census as being 23 years old in 1911. All Oliver's children are recorded with the surname Evans. I wonder whether Oliver named her after your Edith(I hope I am getting my chronology right here), who I assume he must have known, as we know he lived with William and Eliza until at least 1881 as per the census when he is recorded as 'boarding'. My mother-in-law is dying to make contact. If you feel inclined, here is her email address is [deleted]

Why was Frances in Rotherham when she died?

Best wisjes
Helene

E-mail address deleted by admin
Do not include your e-mail address in a post

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Carole Lewis — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:52:51 +0000

Hi Helene,

I certainly think that you are right about Oliver. I think William Morgan would have been about 16 when Oliver was born. He didn't marry Fanny until many years later I would assume because there are no other children before William arrived. There almost certainly would have been other children if William and Fanny had been in a relationship!

Harriet was born on 11th May 1873. You can check her out on the free bmd indexes. Fanny died nearly two years later I presume following a still birth. I am so grateful that I was not a Victorian woman.

William seems to have treated my Greatgrandmother, Eliza's illegitimate baby in a fatherly manner. Of course she was a girl.I do suspect him of being her father though.He seems to have returned to Lydbrook with all the children after Fanny's death and very quickly taken up with Eliza. He certainly would have known her before as they lived very close to each other. They were all very young of course.

All the stuff of Victorian novels isn't it?
Keep on digging.

Best wishes,
Carole

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Helenebabette — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:36:51 +0000

CORRECTION:

Carole, I mistakenly said Harriet must have been Eliza's daughter, but I meant Frances of course.

Rgds
Helene

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Helenebabette — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:34:35 +0000

Hi Carole

Thank you so much for helping put the pieces of this family jigsaw together.

Harriet probably is Eliza's daughter as she was 7 yrs old at the 1881 census which puts her birth around 1874. As Frances died in 1875, this may have been as result of Harriet's birth.

Is Edith your descendant? What was her surname? I didnt see her with William and Eliza on the 1881 census I assume you found her living with her grandparents at that time?

Perhaps you are right about Henry being one month. I couldn't interpret the squiggle after his name on the census and assumed it meant Milson and Henry were twins.

What do you think about my hypothesis that Oliver was not William Morgan's natural son? Have you found any evidence of a previous marriage for Frances Evans? If I am right, it seems that neither you or my husband are biologically related to William Morgan.

Best wishes
Helene Scott

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Carole Lewis — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:06:34 +0000

I think that I have not scrutinised the 1881 Census records enough. I was coming at this information from a different angle to you as I am descended from the child that Eliza had before she married William Morgan. I had initially believed that Harriet was Eliza's child.This website identified Fanny for me but it was Harriet's birth certificate which gave me her full name.

I think that Fanny must have been married to William Morgan. In the parish records it clearly states that he was a widower and there was no law to say a marriage must be registered before I think 1874. (Someone will probably correct me there)

The name probably mistranscribed is Milson not Wilson. It was this name that led me to the Morgans in the first place as I have an uncle Milson who is still alive recognised it early on thinking that it was a family name. It was there in the Morgan family but appears to have been widely used in the forest in the 19th c.

I had Milson as 1 year and Henry as 1 month in the 1881 Census but they could have been twins as they run through my family which has proved useful at times in identification.

I believe that Edith probably lived with William's parents, she is there in the
1881 Census. Edith was alive in 1889 when she was a witness at my great grandmother's wedding in Newcastle. I believe my grandmother had been working as a servant there. Perhaps Edith had too. I can find no record of her marriage or death.
Incidentally,Eliza died in 1897 as a result of "acute partum haemorrhage". She was 44.

William survived until 1924. The certificate gives "senility" as the cause of death.

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Helenebabette — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:09:39 +0000

Thank you so much for your reply. This is very welcome information. My mother-in-law, Oliver's granddaughter, will be absolutely delighted with this news. She has been trying for years to find out more about Oliver's origins.

I cannot find a birth record for Frances so was unable to trace her maiden name, but I suspected that Oliver changed his name later to Evans because this was his mother's maiden name, so I am pleased my hunch was right. I dont think, under the circumstances, that William Morgan was his natural father. I wonder whether William ever married Frances as there is no sign of a marriage record, and no sign of a baptism for Oliver, but there is a baptism for William junior recorded on parish records of this web site. So your great great grandmother was Eliza? I found her with William in the 1881 census where Oliver, who is now 17, is still calling himself Morgan but is listed in the census record as 'boarding' rather than as William's son, which adds to my belief that he was not William's natural son, and which may have accounted for the family stories that he and William senior had a troubled relationship. By this time the Morgan family had moved from Lydbrook to Birtley in the North East of England, presumably in search of mining work.

You could not find Oliver because of the name change. At some point between 1981 and his marriage date in 1884, he changed his surname. He married Anne Speed in 1884 by which time he was spelling his name Evean, but on his death certificate 14 Feburary 1923 he is calling himself Evans.

Oliver had 9 children with Ann (8 girls and 1 boy), but by the time of the 1911 census, Ann is dead, and he has 9 children to care for, ranging in age from 25 to 3 years old.

My mother-in-law's family always wondered where the name Frances came from as Oliver named his fifth daughter Frances Harriet. My mother-in-law's mother was called Olive and was the eighth daughter. Olive married Graham Walton and they had a single child, Doreen, my mother-in-law. Having been raised in the north east she migrated back down to Wiltshire early on in her marriage, in about 1962, as her husband Jim Scott, found a job with Rover in Swindon. I am married to their eldest child, Russell. Olive died in 1960 aged 55.

How did you find Frances? Do you know who her parents were? What were they doing in Rotherham? Did she die following child birth I wonder? Puerperal fever was a big killer of women following childbirth prior to antibiotics. In the 1881 census by which time William and Eliza are married, there are 5 children recorded, plus Oliver the 'boarder'. The children are William, Harriet, John, Wilson (may be wrong name - difficult to read)and Henry. The latter two seem to be the same age, so may be twins. There is no mention of Edith. Perhaps she died?

Many thanks again.
Helene Scott

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census) (reply)

Carole Lewis — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:37:25 +0000

Oliver Morgan's mother was Frances Fanny Evans. She died on 28th March 1875 in Rotherham from peritonitis puereral. She had had two other children with Morgan: Edith and Harriet as well as William. He married my Great great grandmother the following year. She already had a child born seven years earlier who may have been Morgan's. I have been unable to establish when Fanny married Morgan.

Morgan's father was also called William Morgan. I have often wondered what happened to Oliver and assumed that he had died as he does not appear in the 1881 Census in any of the relevant households. Perhaps he was back with Fanny's parents.

Oliver Morgan (mis-transcribed as Olive on 1871 census)

Helenebabette — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:13:37 +0000

Oliver Morgan, my husband's great grandfather, known as Oliver Evean and subsequently Oliver Evans, was brought up in Lydbrook, we were told by a family called Morgan. This suggested to us that he was an orphan taken in by a benevolent couple. Family legend also has it that he was mistreated by Mr Morgan. Having done a bit of research, we found an Oliver recorded in the 1871 census as the 7 year old (1864) child of William (1848) and Frances (Fanny)(1846) Morgan born in Lydbrook. This suggests that he was, in fact, brought up by his natural mother and step father. There is a 2nd child recorded called William, who was a 1 year old at the time of the 1871 census. It seems odd to call a second son rather than the first by the father's name, which endorses our thinking that Oliver was not William Morgan's (1848) natural son. Oliver was probably Fanny's son from a previous relationship, perhaps even born illigitimatly, which might explain William Morgan's antipathy to him and Oliver's desire to change his surname in later life. Have tried to find a birth certificate for Oliver to try and ascertain Fanny Morgan's maiden name or even a marriage certificate for William and Fanny, but have drawn a blank. I believe they were methodists. If anyone has any further information, would love to hear more. Thank you.