Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Thomas and Sarah Marshall 2nd Part

Thomas and Sarah Marshall 2nd Part (reply)

unknown — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:34:43 +0000

what he had done: I remained with him in the saddle room for some
time; he did not eat his dinner, but said that I had better take it home as
he would not want it; soon after this he hid his face in his hat, so that I
could not see it, but he kept talking to me; he told me what money was
owing to him and also the parties to who he owed money and requested me to
settle it; I told him that he was the proper person to settle that business; I
was about leaving him to go home, when he asked me to stay a little longer,
and I did so; I said that I was going several times, and he on every
occasion asked me to stay, as he seemed to have something the matter with him,
and could scarcely speak; he kept getting worse; after we had gone into the
saddle room I observed that he pounded some white substance which he put in
a cup, and went into the kitchen for some water, and returned in the
saddle room with the cup and its contents, which he placed on the corbin, with a
smock- frock over it; I took the cup from under the frock; it was three
parts full of water, with some white stuff at the bottom resembling what I
saw him pound; I asked him what it was, when he replied that it was some
salts that he had got to dip the sheep with, as he was a shepherd; I asked him
when he was going to use it and he said he was going to mix some stuff in a
jar and that he should use it directly; he then got up stirred it himself,
and began to drink of it; I had tasted it and it tasted like copper; he
asked me to drink some or taste some of it (I don't know which); I observed a
change in his look as soon as he began to drink and I took the cup from
him, and threw the remainder of the contents on the ground; I think he
swallowed twice before, I took it from him, soon after which is breath appeared to
be stopped, so that he could not speak, and he went and sat down; I asked
him what he had been taking, but he could not answer me; I observed that he
could scarcely breathe, and his eyes turned red; I then called to William,
the groom, and told him what had happened; the deceased was seized with
vomiting in about tow minutes after he had taken the contents of the cup;
soon after this Miss Winnall came and gave him something; which caused him to
vomit a great deal, and I observed that he threw up a great deal of white
stuff like that which was in the cup; after he had been sick Williams
removed him into the stable and put him to lie down on some hay. Miss Winnall
asked him if he had been taking poison, when he replied that he had; she asked
him what it was, but I do not remember what he said; I asked him why he
had done such a thing, but he made me no answer; I said that I had mentioned
nothing to induce him to do so, and I meant to tell him that I forgave him;
soon afterwards the deceased was sent home in a cart, and as I had left
the children for a long time I went a shorter way, and arrived at home before
the deceased; he was taken upstairs to bed and seemed in great pain; Mr.
Hollister's assistant was sent for, who gave the deceased something to take,
which caused him to vomit; he kept groaning all night and all the next day
and said but little; I asked him about the servant girl, when he replied
that he knew nothing about her- for his part he did not know whether she was
a man or a woman.; I then said, "never mind what people say", I will not
believe anything about it and I also said that if he did recover I would
never mention it to him again; he would sometimes say that he wished he had not
done it; the Rev. Mr. Curteis was with him twice, and prayed with him,
when he said that he was sorry for what he had done, and that it was all
through his own bad conduct; I had heard that the girl was much hurt at what had
happened; and I asked him if he would like to see her, when he replied
that he should if it was my wish, as he wanted to wish her goodbye; he lived
eleven days after this, and died last Sunday morning at six o'clock; he was
32 years of age.
William Probyn deposed: I am groom at Mr. Winnall's, of Ecoleshall Court,
in this parish; I have lived with Mr. Winnall for these six or seven years
past; I know the deceased, he was a shepherd; about four o'clock on
Thursday, the 30th of June last, the last witness (the wife of the deceased)
called me out to the gardne; she said her husband had been drinking the stuff
that was in the cup; I went to the saddle room and asked him what he had been
doing; he made me no reply at all; he sat down on the bench, leaning on
his arm; I thought he was incapable of speaking; I then went into the house
and told Miss Winnall; my master was not at home; I then returned to him and
Miss W. along with me; I then assisted him into the stable; I have
attentively listened to the evidence of the wife of the deceased, and , as far as
I know of the matter, all she had said is true; I have seen, on the part
of the housemaid (Jane Juffgott) and the deceased that which leaves no doubt
in mymind of an improper intimacy between them; I think the master had an
idea of it; she left on the following morning after then man took the
poison; she was sent away; on the following Sunday I went to him at his house,
and I asked him why he had taken poison; he made me no reply, but said he
was drove to it, but he did not say by whom; I heard the deceased tell Miss
Winnall that he had taken white mercury; I asked him why he did such a thing
when he had such a good wife as any man need have; I asked him about he
young woman, and he said he did not know, excepting by her clothes, whether
she was a man or woman;I observed that his countenance was not the same at
dinner time on Thursday; he seemed as thought he had something on his mind;
he has often before now told me that he had something on his mind.
Upon this evidence, the jury returned a verdict that "Thomas Marshall, not
having the fear of God before his eyes, but being moved and seduced by the
devil, and of his malice aforethought, did kill and murder himself by
swallowing poison."

Article 4: July 23rd 1853
Linton. The late suicide- An inquest was held on the body of the
misguided man, named John Marshall, (the particulars of whose death we recorded in
a previous publication) before H. Underwood, Esq., on Tuesday se'nnight,
when a verdict of felo de se was returned.

Thomas and Sarah Marshall - final answer (reply)

unknown — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:32:49 +0000

This should put the question to rest. Below is a recap of 4 newspaper articles
from the Hereford Times in 1853. I have typed them just as they are
written.

Article 1: July 9th, 1853
Attempted Suicide- A man of the name of Thomas Mansell, shepherd to Mr.
Winnal, a highly respectable farmer, residing at The Court Farm, near Ross,
attempted suicide, by swallowing a considerable portion of a deleterious
preparation for dressing sheep. It appears that Mansell had been carrying on
an intrigue with a female domestic in Mr. Winnal's establishment, which
reached his wife's ears, and she went to The Court, to see and upbraid her
rival for her misconduct. In this the poor woman, who is the mother of five
children, was disappointed, as the guilty creature refused to see her. She
then sought out her husband, who, when he saw her, in a surly tone demanded
what brought her there. He was then mixing the stuff for the sheep and told
his wife that it was salts, and asked her to drink it, as it would do her
good, and she to please him, just tasted it. When she refused to take it he
said he would drink it and immediately raised it to his lips, which his
wife seeing, attempted to prevent, by striking the cup from him. But she was
too late to prevent him from drinking a considerable portion of it. A part
of the liquid also falling in his eyes. Having drunk the stuff he fell
down insensible. Mrs. Mansell immediately gave an alarm, and Mr. Winnals's
groom procured some oil and milk, which he poured down his throat, whilst a
messenger was dispatched for a doctor, who, when he arrived, immediately
used the stomach pump. The foolish man now lies in a very dangerous state,
with very little hopes of his recovery; and if he should recover it is
feared that he will suffer the loss of his sight.

Article 2: July 16th, 1853
Suicide- The misguided man, Thomas Marshall, who attempted his life as
reported in our last, died on Sunday morning from the effects of the poison.
He has left a widow and five children, to lament their loss. it appears
that his wife expected shortly to receive a sum of money, with which the
deceased and the female with whom the improper intimacy existed, intended to
take their departure for America. He had made all the necessary arrangements
for that purpose, and it is surmised that a discovery of his base intension
led to the commission of the act. On the affair being known to Mr. Winnals,
he immediately discharged the female.

Article 3: July 20th 1853
Felo-De-Se Singular Poisoning Case.
An inquest was held at the Linton Clubhouse on Wednesday last, by H.
Underwood, Esq., on the body of a shepherd named Marshall, who had taken poison
under most singular circumstances on the 30th ult. and lingered till Monday
se' night. The following evidence was taken:-
Jas. Marshall deposed: I am a labourer and reside in this parish: the
deceased was an uncle of mine; on the 30th of last June I had occasion to go
to see my uncle at Ecoleshall Court; when I arrived there he had just
finished his breakfast; I did not observe anything strange in his manner; I never
heard the deceased say he would poison himself; he did not mention his
wife's name during the time I was with him; I left him about four o'clock in
the afternoon.
Sarah Marshall Deposed: I am the deceased's wife; I have been married ten
years and have had five children by the deceased; I have not at times
lived comfortably with my husband; his manner has been rather strange to me
lately; I was no aware that he had been intimate with the housemaid at
Ecoleshall Court, but on the 30th of June last Caroline Probert told me that they
had been seen together; I have had reason to complain of my husband's
intimacy with other women on former occasions: in consequence of what Caroline
Probert told me I went to Ecoleshall Court to see my husband, and I accused
him of what I had heard; he said to me "come here, you do not know what
you are taking about", I did not go to him; he was then apparently waiting for
his dinner; I wanted to see the servant girl, but she would not come to
me; on former occasions when I have remonstrated with him he has struck me,
he did not do so on this occasion; after I had been to the house I went to
him again, and he offered me some cider; I said "are you not ashamed to
carry on as you have done?" when he replied that it would make no odds to me or
the girl about him; he then went into the saddle room and drank some
cider; I have heard the deceased say when in a passion or in drink that he
should soon have done with it, which I thought meant that he would destroy
himself; he was very passionate, but when his passion was over he was always
sorry for what he had done:

continued on next post...

Thomas and Sarah Marshall (reply)

Jean Herbert — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:24:37 +0000

Thank you for your message. My husband is a descendant of the family, through a Herbert/Phelps/Goode connection. We have been in contact from many descendants of Sarah Goode in the USA and have many conflicting versions of the poisoning. As we are never going to find out the truth, we have decided not to take this subject any further as it may cause distress to family members.

Thomas and Sarah Marshall (reply)

unknown — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 03:06:52 +0000

If you are interested, I just completed a book about recreating the handcart trek that you talk about, it's called www.FaithGreaterThanPain.com

Thomas and Sarah Marshall (reply)

Jean Herbert — Mon, 04 Oct 2010 13:02:05 +0000

Thank you for your message. It is actually my husband Roy Herbert who is a descendant of this family. His ancestors intermarried several times with the Goode family, so did the Phelps, the other main line in my husbands tree. Please pm me if you require specific information and thank you once again for the new information. Regards Jean Herbert Yorkshire

Thomas and Sarah Marshall (reply)

gdrake2001 — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 21:42:25 +0000

Thomas George Marshall died in Linton, Herfordshire, England July 10, 1853 as a result of injesting poison. Not long ago, my husband and I traveled to Franklin County, Idaho to search out places of particular family interest. While visiting the Franklin Cemetery where Sarah is buried, I met with descendants of George Thomas Marshall, the only son of Sarah and Thomas, who is also buried in the Franklin Cemetery. These family members have in their possession the death certificates of both Sarah and Thomas Marshall. The death certificate of Thomas states the cause of death to be poison.

Following the death of Thomas, Sarah deterimined to come to Utah to be with "the saints" and a younger sister Patience who had already made the journey. Sarah worked for 2 years to earn enough to pay for herself, and her six small children to make this tremendous journey. Making the trip with Sarah and the children was a much younger sister, Mariah or Maria.

The children were from 12 years of age to 2 years.

Lovina 12
Selina 10
Tryphena 8
Dauean Louisa 6
George Thomas 4
Sarah 2

After arriving in Utah, Sarah met and married Joseph Chadwick in 1857. Though this did not seem to be a particularly happy marriage for Sarah, 2 more sons were born.
William Joseph born 6 Oct 1857 and Charles Frederick Chadwick born 6 Aug 1869. William Joseph Chadwick is buried near his mother, Sarah.

You may be interested in a family history blogsite:

http://geos-rose-garden.blogspot.com/2010/03/sarah-goode-marshall-chadwick-monument.html

Jean, are you a descendant of John Herbert and Patience Goode? I am a descendant of Dauean Louisa Marahall Boice. I hope this answers the questions you had regarding Thomas and Sarah Marshall.

Thomas MARSHALL burial 1853 (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:35:49 +0000

I wonder if it was July 1853 and not 1854 ?

Year: 1851
Month: Dec
Day: 7
Parents_Surname: MARSHALL
Child_Forenames: George Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Linton
Occupation: Carpenter
Officiating_Minister: H[enr]y L. Whatley
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Also baptised on this date was Louiza [sic] to same parents
Register_Reference: AR90/3
Page_Number: 94
Parish_Chapel: Aston Ingham

Name: Thomas Marshall
Year of Registration: 1853
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Newent
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 125

Year: 1854
Month: Jan
Day: 28
Parents_Surname: MARSHALL
Child_Forenames: Sarah Ann
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Linton
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AR91/5
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Linton

Thomas Marshall general info (reply)

wendypursehouse — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:16:16 +0000

Hi,Jean. My name is Wendy,i am in the process of doing my family tree. My mums maiden name Marshall.Thomas Marshall was the 3rd child of Richard Marshall and Margaret Clay[our 4xg grandparents] Thomas married Sarah Goode on 7th may 1843 in Ross Herefordshire. on the 1851 census he is a shepherd, married to Sarah,with children at Linton Hill, Linton,thats the last census info there is for him. At the age of 43yrs Sarah completed her migration along the Mormon Pioner Trail,on the 26 sep.1856.with the E,Ellsworth train.She was accompanied with her children, Lovina[12] Selins[10] Tryphena[10]Louisa[6] George[4] and Sarah[2]..Sarah went on to marry a Joseph Chadwick(b.1809 Cove,Yorkshire) they had two children William[1857)and Charles(1860). in 1880 she is 57yrs old a widow,keeping house for her son,C.F.Chadwick.at Onieda,Idaho. We know that Thomas died in Herefordshire but unfortunatly we donnot know the cause....The story goes that Thomas was supposedly a wife beater,and Sarah chose the church over him,and followed them to America....so if he died 1854 and Sarah [dau] was born 1854/5 ,she must have been already pregnant when she left England... begs the question......did she leave with Joseph Chadwick.... hope this helps some..Wendy

Thomas Marshall general info (reply)

cityblue — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:00:31 +0000

Sorry that I can't shed any light on the cause of death or circumstances surrounding it, but I have found some info about Thomas Marshall...

Birth: 28 August 1820 in Linton Hill, Herefordshire

Christening: 15 October 1820 in Linton Hill

Marriage (to Sarah Goode): 07 May 1843 in Walford, Ross, Herefordshire

Was living in Linton Hill in 1851 according to 1851 census

Death: 10 July 1854 in Linton Hill

His parents were Richard Marshall (1785-1871) and Margaret Clay (1774-1866)

Hopefully this is of some use. Good luck finding out about the death itself.
Chris

Poisoning of Thomas Marshall

Jean Herbert — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:37:01 +0000

Thomas Marshall born abt 1820 at Linton Hill. He supposedly died by ingesting poison in 1854 (place of death not known). He was married to Sarah Goode who was born abt 4 March 1822 Mitcheldean, and baptised at Abenhall.
Anyone have any information on this death?
Regards Jean herbert