Year: 1863
Month: May
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: COOK
Child_Forenames: Emily
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Leah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Plump Hill
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Joseph Lander
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Daughter of: Born March 6th 1863
Notes:
Register_Reference: D6026 8/1
Page_Number: 53
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Congregational

1871
James Cook 43
Leah Cook 40
Hamlet Cook 14
Hubert Cook 12
Iow Cook 10
Emily Cook 8
Tom Cook 6
Bendall Cook 4
Newton Cook 11 Months

1881
Emily Cooke abt 1863 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Assistant Weston Super Mare, Somerset

1881 ??
Ann Horsington abt 1839 Kewstoke, Somerset, England Head Weston Super Mare, Somerset
Henry Horsington abt 1862 Weston S Mare, Somerset, England Son Weston Super Mare, Somerset
Alfred Horsington abt 1865 Weston S Mare, Somerset, England Son Weston Super Mare, Somerset
Polly Horsington abt 1870 Weston S Mare, Somerset, England Daughter Weston Super Mare, Somerset
Annie Horsington abt 1880 Daughter Weston Super Mare, Somerset

Name: Henry Horsington
Name: Emily Cook
Year of Registration: 1882
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bristol
County: Avon, Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 136

Name: Henry Horsington
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 29
District: Axbridge
County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 386

Year: 1892
Month: Feb
Day: 18
Grooms_Surname: NELMES
Grooms_Forenames: Timothy
Grooms_Age: 28
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Coal miner
Grooms_Residence: Ruardean Woodside
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Nelmes
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: George
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Coal miner
Brides_Surname: HERRINGTON
Brides_Forenames: Emily
Brides_Age: 29
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Ruardean Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Cook
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: James
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Coal miner
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Newton Cook
Witness_2: Lillie Matthews
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 139
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

1901
Timothy Nelmes abt 1864 Ruardean Woodside, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Emily Nelmes abt 1863 Ruardean Woodside, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Hubert Nelmes abt 1893 Ruardean Woodside, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Clara Nelmes abt 1895 Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Hamlet Nelmes abt 1897 Ruardean W, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elsie Nelmes abt 1900 Ruardean W, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1911
NELMES TIMOTHY M 1864 47 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
NELMES EMILY F 1863 48 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
NELMES ELSIE F 1899 12 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
NELMES CISSIE F 1902 9 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
NELMES DORIS F 1902 9 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
NELMES ETHEL F 1906 5 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
NELMES HUBERT M 1893 18 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire

Year: 1956
Month: Jan
Day: 16
Surname: NELMES
Forenames: Emily
Residence: Prospect House Ruardean Woodside Drybrook
Age_at_death: 92
Officiating_Minister: T E Jones Browne
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/33
Page_No: 58
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

1911
WARD CORNELIUS M 1854 57 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD EMILY F 1861 50 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD ALFRED M 1893 18 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD BRAMWELL M 1903 8 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD EDWARD MORGAN M 1905 6 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD ELIZABETH F 1886 25 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD MABLE F 1896 15 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD MARY OLWEN F 1909 2 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD THOMAS JOHN M 1908 3 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
WARD THOMAS WILLIAM M 1882 29 Pontypridd Glamorganshire

and perhaps this is the death :-

Name: Cornelius Ward
Death Registration Month/Year: 1931
Age at death (estimated): 72
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 567

RG13; Piece: 5015; Folio: 37; Page: 28

138 Gelly Road, Ystradyfodwg

Cornelius Ward 48 Coal Hewer b Coleford
Emily Ward 40 b cinderford
Rosey Ward 16
Ada Ward 14
Alfred Ward 7
Mable Ward 4
John Rolls 60 boarder

so still together in 1901 :) sorry don't have access to 1911.

Simone xx

107676
Entry Number 148
Year 1890
Month Aug
Day 24
Parents Surname WARD
Child Forenames Stanley
Fathers Forenames Cornelius
Mothers Forenames Emily
Mothers Surname
Residence The Morse
Occupation Wood Cutter
Officiating Minister William Barker Vicar
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P109 IN 1/5
Page Number 19
Parish Chapel Drybrook

157666
Entry Number 505
Year 1887
Month Oct
Day 30
Parents Surname WARD
Child Forenames Terecina
Fathers Forenames Cornelius
Mothers Forenames Emily
Mothers Surname
Residence Penyard Cottage
Occupation Labourer
Officiating Minister E B Hawkeshaw
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference AA33/6
Page Number 64
Parish Chapel Weston under Penyard

157650
Entry Number 489
Year 1886
Month May
Day 16
Parents Surname WARD
Child Forenames Ada Inez
Fathers Forenames Cornelius
Mothers Forenames Emily
Mothers Surname
Residence Penyard Cottage
Occupation Labourer
Officiating Minister E B Hawkeshaw
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference AA33/6
Page Number 62
Parish Chapel Weston under Penyard

5840
Entry Number 133
Year 1884
Month Aug
Day 28
Parents Surname WARD
Child Forenames Rosa
Fathers Forenames Cornelius
Mothers Forenames Emily
Mothers Surname
Residence Five Acres
Occupation Labourer
Officiating Minister C. Barnes Vicar
Event Baptism
Memoranda Born 21st Jul 1884
Notes
Register Reference P82 IN 1/5
Page Number 17
Parish Chapel Christchurch

Whole family has disappeared by 1901 !! wonder if they went abroad?

Reckon this is Cornelius in 1891 ... surprise, surprise, calling himself Burns !!

RG12; Piece: 2006; Folio 64; Page 10
Cornelius Burns 36 Woodcutter b Joyford nr Coleford
Emily Burns 29 b Harry Hill Drybrook
Rose Burns 6
Ada Burns 4
Terrysena Burns 3
Donley Burns 8/12 actually says Stanley

so they have used the Burns name, that dad Charles should have been :)

keeping us on our toes aren't they :)

Ancestry has Emily's name as Horsington at marriage to Timothy Nelmes and I've looked at the image and it does say Horsington. There is a marriage in 1882 at Bristol of Henry Horsington to an Emily Cook, so I wonder if this is a different Emily Cook to the one married to Cornelius.(or is it a different marriage and names are just coincidental!) Cornelius would have had to have died sometime between April 1891 and Feb 1892?

There is a death for Henry Horsington at Somerset, age 29 in 1890.

Could this be a totally different Emily who married Timothy Nelmes and not Emily married to Cornelius?

hmmm need to see what happened to Cornelius....

Simone x

xxx

I admit to getting a bit lost concerning the Barnes/Ward etc., scenario. I do however have Charles Ward 1822 in my Family Tree and thanks to you have added marriage and census detail. Charles Ward is in my tree as his son Cornelius Ward 1854 married Elizabeth Emily Cook 1863 on 11 Apr 1884 at Drybrook, still no relationship, but Elizabeth Emily next married Timothy Nelmes 1864 at Drybrook 18 Feb 1892, but I cannot find a death for Cornelius. At the marriage to Timothy Nelmes she was shown as a widow name Herrington and father James Cook :

1881 Census
Dwelling: 3 House Quarry Hill
Census Place: (Westbury On Severn) East Dean, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341608 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2521 Folio 106 Page 33
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James COOK M 44 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Coal Miner
Eliza COOK M 39 F East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
Emily COOK U 18 F East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Daur
William COOK 14 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
George COOK 12 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Milsom COOK 10 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Jessye COOK 5 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Hubert COOK 4 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Sidney COOK 3 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son

Timothy Nelmes 1864 was the son of George Nelmes 1832 & Esther Mansell 1834, George Nelmes 1832 being the son of Moses Nelmes 1805 & Hannah Meek 1813, Hannah Meek being the daughter of Joseph Meek 1782 & Hannah Cooke 1792 - many postings about this couple.

Timothy's brother Frederick Nelmes 1868 married Laura Emily Marfell 1873 at Providence Chapel, Drybrook 22 Nov 1890 - I just had to get the Marfell's in !!

Jim Ashton

Ward Richard, born 1818 in Lydbrook, Glos
Ward Ann, born 1815 in New Weir, Glos
and 5 children including

Ward, Hannah, 1846 born Lydbrook, Glos

they are living at Willow House, Chapel Hill, Chepstow, Monmouthshire

Does that help?

It's the Hannah Ward I referred to in my original post.

Could you send me your email address via a private email to me through the site. Then I will send you a tree I have of this family.

You will see on the previous threads that Phoebe has been baptising children under names of Marshall and Ward at different chapels too!

My descent is through George born c 1819.

By the way the John Barnes born 1810 that Slowhands has listed as a neighbour on the census entries, will be son of John Barnes and Elizabeth Wintle, I reckon she may have died in childbirth.

Caused me quite a headache this family ! took me about 3 months solidly working on it whenever I could to sort it out. Slowhands and I had great fun.. lol !!

It's quite hard to put someone with 3 names Barnes/Marshall/Ward on your tree!!!
Thanks

Simone x

The other interesting thing (if I have got this right) is that I worked out this Hannah daughter in law to be the wife of James 1844. She was with her father in law as a widow in 1891 but miraculously it appears as though James is back from the dead, as he is back with his family in West Dean in 1901 and later buried in Lydbrook in 1912. (The wife being Hannah Matthews of course).

Please could someone put me out of total confusion here?
Thanks to all.

Carol

T

If Phoebe had all the illegitimate children (sounds as if they were all children of John Burns) I could envisage a situation where when Eliza married Peter she could have put her uncle Richard as her father and just changed the surname to Ward from Webb!! Alternatively, I wonder if Charles had the first or second Christian name of Richard!

I totally agree with an illegitimate child being raised by their grandparents - I actually taught a teenager who was in that position and had only recently discovered that an elder sister was actually their mother!

So my Eliza is the daughter of Charles and Charlotte. On the 1851 census they have George (1847).

I would love any information you might have - many thanks. I am going to try to work out your other thread links.

If you were confused before you will be more so now!!

Briefly, Charles Ward b c 1822(also known as Marshall) married Charlotte Hale.. they had a daughter Eliza in 1849. Charles had a sister Eliza b c 1825 ,also know as both Ward and Marshall, she married Richard Webb.

Sometime around 1841-51 the Marshall family decided to call themselves Ward.

After a long time trying to sort it all out managed to establish that Charles and siblings all born illegitimate to Phoebe Marshall,but name father on marriages as John Barnes/Burns/Byrne (her mother being Hannah Ward and father John Marshall).

Phoebe's first child Benjamin Barnett Marshall is seen on census as though son of John Marshall and Hannah Ward, but his baptism has him as son of Pheobe Marshall father John Barnes. Phoebe eventually married John Barnes in 1839, some 30 years after the birth of her first son Benjamin. John Barnes had been previously married to Elizabeth Wintle who died in 1810

various threads on it here, whiah as you will see took a lot of working out!!

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=9995

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=10457

hope it makes some sense, just keying all this from memory at the moment, but let me know if you think this is your family and if you want me to send you more detailed info later..

got to pop out for an hour now!!

Simone x

If Eliza was illegitimate she would take her mother's surname of Ward.

Richard Webb could have married her mother a few months before she had Eliza knowing it wasn't his. He could have given her his surname on the censuses as a sort of protection not to make her feel odd but on her marriage she would have to use her "proper" surname of Ward.

What is interesting is when Richard Webb married Elizabeth Ward her father's surname is listed as Burns!! The plot thickens!!

Ann Ward is a witness and there is an Ann Webb. Wonder if the surname has just been misread somewhere on the censuses!

I am getting even more muddled now as on the parish details on here Eliza Ward not Eliza Webb married Peter Webb in 1868. Her father's name is actually listed as Richard Ward not Webb.

If she was illegitimate in 1846 her parents couldn't have married in 1845, could they?

In 1911 she was staying with one of her sons and listed her place of birth as Joyford, Gloucestershire.

Year: 1846
Month: Apr
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: WARD
Child_Forenames: Eliza
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Christ Church
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: T.R. Garnsey
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Illeg[itimate] daug[hter] of. [Note in margin] Received into Church Feb 27 1848. J. Banks
Notes:
Register_Reference: 8212
Page_Number: 99
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

1851
Richard Webb abt 1823 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
View Record
Elizabeth Webb abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Webb abt 1846 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1861
Richard Webb abt 1823 Five Acres Nr Coleford Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Webb abt 1825 Joyford, West Dean Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliz Webb abt 1846 Joyford, West Dean Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Ann Webb abt 1853 Joyford, West Dean Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Richard Webb abt 1856 Joyford, West Dean Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Webb abt 1858 Joyford, West Dean Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Webb abt 1772 Five Acres Nr Coleford Mother West Dean, Gloucestershire

1871
Richard Webb 48
Elizabeth Webb 46
Anne Webb 19
Richard Webb 16
Thomas Webb 14

Year: 1868
Month: Jun
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: WEBB
Grooms_Forenames: Peter
Grooms_Age: 19
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Forgeman
Grooms_Residence: West Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Webb
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Isaac
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: WARD
Brides_Forenames: Eliza
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: West Dean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Ward [ I wonder if this should be WEBB]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Isaac Webb
Witness_2: Ann Ward
Other_Witnesses: None
Officiating_Minister: W. H. Taylor
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: -
Notes: -
Register_Reference: PFC82 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 96
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

However, what I don't understand is that that family doesn't link in with the Peter Webb/Eliza Ward marriage details!

Am I being thick?

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=9996

1851
Charles Ward abt 1822 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charlott Ward abt 1827 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Ward abt 1847 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Ward abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1861 Joyford
Charles Ward abt 1822 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Ward abt 1827 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Cornelious Ward abt 1854 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Ward abt 1856 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Phebe Ward abt 1858 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Ward abt 1861 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1871
Charles Ward abt 1822 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Ward abt 1827 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Alum Ward abt 1870 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Cornelius Ward abt 1854 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Ward abt 1857 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Phoebe Ward abt 1858 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Ward abt 1865 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1881
Charles Ward abt 1822 Joyford, Gloucestershire, England Head English Bicknor, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Ward abt 1826 Lane End, Gloucestershire, England Wife English Bicknor, Gloucestershire
Cornelius Ward abt 1855 Joyford, Gloucestershire, England Son English Bicknor, Gloucestershire
Elam Ward abt 1869 Joyford, Gloucestershire, England Son English Bicknor, Gloucestershire
Eliza Ward abt 1857 Joyford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor, Gloucestershire
Thomas Ward abt 1866 Joyford, Gloucestershire, England Son English Bicknor, Gloucestershire
Phoebe Butler abt 1853 Joyford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor, Gloucestershire

According to the transcript on the parish records Peter Webb m Eliza Ward (b 1846?) on 21 June 1868 and bride's father's name was Richard Ward. Checking on the parish records I found Richard Ward (he was a forgeman) m Ann Wall (father William Hall) on 21 Oct 1843. His father was Richard Ward. Elsewhere I have discovered that Richard Ward (Snr) m Sarah and Richard born 1816 in Lydbrook was their only child.

On various censuses I have found Richard Ward (B 1816 - forgeman born Lydbrook) married to Ann had various children but no Eliza! They had a daughter Hannah (b 1846) but I have traced that she married George Rogers - so not Eliza! None of their other daughters had the name Eliza either.

On the 1911 census Eliza says she was born in Joyford, nr Coleford Gloucestershire. On the 1851 census I have Charles and Charlott Ward living in Joy Ford, Coleford Monmouthshire with a daughter Eliza Ward but she was born in 1849. I cannot find Charles or Charlott on any other census!!

I have found a distant cousin who claims Eliza's parents were Charles and Charlott Ward and she did marry Peter Webb!

Can anyone please help? I am going round in circles.