Forest of Dean FHT Forum - James GRIFFITHS & Margaret ROBERTS, Newland 1783

James GRIFFITHS & Margaret ROBERTS, Newland 1783 (reply)

Roger Griffiths — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 15:27:09 +0000

You are quite right with All Saints Newland and it's chapels of ease, Bream, Clearwell, Coleford and Redbrook. The separate and consolidated registers were well kept at that time and there was even an index compliled by the incumbent in the early 19th century which is in Gloucestershire County Records.

In addition to that people who were moving from village to village did sometimes get children baptised in both the old and the new parishes. The fear was the Poor Laws. People belonged to villages. If they moved and then had to apply for parish relief, they would be taken back to original parish (Removal Orders).

Roger

Fanny STEPHENS / STEVENS 1826 Oldcroft (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 06:39:22 +0000

You are right - at the moment - this Fanny Stephens does seem to be un connected. However in time she may become linked in - there has to be a significance in the surname :-)

Fanny Stephens (reply)

mrsbruso — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 04:06:55 +0000

I have carefully made out family charts and timelines and millions of yellow sticky lables, and I seem to be either missing a link, or this was a line that didn't "pan out" in the grand scheme of things. Where does Fanny STEPHENS fit in, if she does? She marries a widower, Benjamin JOHNSON, but it can't be Julia JOHNSON's father, as her mother is listed as ANNE (KEAR), and Julia is born in 1865, where Benjamin JOHNSON marries Fanny STPEPHENS in 1857.

Am I still stumbling in the dark here?

James GRIFFITHS & Margaret ROBERTS, Newland 1783 (reply)

mrsbruso — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 04:01:23 +0000

Roger,

I think that the reason for the seemingly double entries is that the first entry is made at the Parish Chapel, for example, Bream or Blakeney, and then it is eventually recorded in the parent parish, Newland or Awre, for example. It would also explain why some of them are out of date order. . .They were probably transcribed into the parent register at a later, more convenient date.

James GRIFFITHS & Margaret ROBERTS, Newland 1783 (reply)

mrsbruso — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:52:34 +0000

Robins rang a bell. . In. Newland, marriage 11 May 1816 between Benjamin KEAR and Charlotte ROBINS. These are Anne KEAR,s (b Parkend 1826) parents. Benjamin is the son of Benjamin KEARE and Hester, he was baptised at Bream Chapel (Newland) 28 December 1794.

Thomas BOND - Newland (Parish Clerk) 1744 - 1819 (reply)

rookancestrybest — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:37:25 +0000

I wondered who Thomas Bond was as he features largely in many of my family's marriages as a witness. I think there was an earlier set of postings about it a year or two ago.

James GRIFFITHS & Margaret ROBERTS, Newland 1783 (reply)

Roger Griffiths — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:25:55 +0000

I think you are on the right track. Reading all this is making my brain hurt, but a few observations.

Witness to marr. of James Gr. and Mgt. Roberts 1783 Newland/Bream James Robins. Does the name Robins crop up again.

Mary was also bapt. Newland/Bream 14Mch1790. I've come across quite a few double baptisms.

Not sure about the 12Jul1815 marriage, both are accredited to parish St Briavels. Witnesses George Kear and the ubiquitous Thomas Bond.

Marriage 29Dec1823 Sarah Gr. and William Willetts rather than Milletts. Witnesses illedg. and George Griffiths.

Best wishes in your researches,

Roger

Rhetoric question (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:40:10 +0000

Pieces of paper and a time-line for the individual's involved can be very useful to sort this type of tangle out -" a picture is worth a thousand words " :-)

Rhetoric question (reply)

mrsbruso — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:17:58 +0000

I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around this one. . . Dawn will come eventually, one hopes. There was a 'ames family that were neighbours of the Clarkes in Blakeney for next to forever. I think they are somehow related to Mary Ann Clarke Lewis James second husband, John James even though he was b
orn in Aberthaw c. 1837.

Rhetoric question (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:47:54 +0000

Is there anyone in the Forest to whom I am not related?

The more I help out here the more I feel that a few core Forest family lines exist that mix and mingle with each other - so yes we are all cousins :-)

leaving Mary free to remarry

Mary Griffiths ( widow) had become a Kear in 1811 - and eventually the widow of George Kear in 1816. What I/we need to work out is who Mary was christened as or did she use her maiden name to marry in 1811.

<><><><> looks like Mary ->

Year: 1817
Month: Apr
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: HEWLETT
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: KEAR
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: John Kear
Witness_2: Isaac Kear
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[mas] T Jennings Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 60
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1821
Month: Jan
Day: 6
Surname: HEWLETT
Forenames: Mary
Residence: Bream
Age_at_death: 66 {1755 birth inferred]
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m. Jones
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/11
Page_No: 32
Parish_Chapel: Lydney

<><><><> since the JAMES surname hasn't cropped up (yet) I wonder if this is Mary's first marriage

Year: 1790
Month: May
Day: 31
Grooms_Surname: GRIFFITHS
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: JAMES
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Wm James
Witness_2: Hannah Pearce
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: P Ball vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 659
Parish_Chapel: Newland

<><><><> long shot time :-

Year: 1753
Month: Apr
Day: 14
Parents_Surname: JAMES
Child_Forenames: Mary
Fathers_Forenames: Phillip
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Breem
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 4/1
Page_Number: 261
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Richard KEAR 1758 Bream (reply)

mrsbruso — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:44:41 +0000

Thank you Slowhands and Kelvin . . . I think I need more paper to map this one out. Do you think its safe to assume, given the evidence that this is "my" Elizabeth Griffiths? I'm fairly well convinced. And it also probably solves the question of "just how does James Riley Brown fit into the equation?", as well. Which leads to yet another question: Is there anyone in the Forest to whom I am not related?

I'm still a bit confused about the widow Mary Griffiths who marries George Kear. I'm not exactly sure whose widow she was. I'm finding more puzzle pieces, but I think the puzzle is growing exponentially!

Thanks for all your help.

Richard KEAR 1758 Bream (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 14:51:08 +0000

...... and John and Sarah also have a son Richard ...

Year: 1758
Month: Mar
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: KEAR
Child_Forenames: Richard
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Breem
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: P227 IN 4/1
Page_Number: 282
Parish_Chapel: Newland

potentially marries

Year 1781
Month Apr
Day 16
Grooms Surname KEARE
Grooms Forenames Richard
Grooms Age
Groom Condition Batchelor
Grooms Occupation
Grooms Residence Of Forest of Dean
Grooms Fathers Surname
Grooms Fathers Forenames
Grooms Fathers Occupation
Brides Surname HARRIS
Brides Forenames Esther
Brides Age
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation
Brides Residence
Brides Fathers Surname
Brides Fathers Forenames
Brides Fathers Occupation
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark
Witness 1
Witness 2
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister Charles Sandiford Vicar
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page Number 341
Parish Chapel Awre

1790 KEAR William Richard Esther Breem Newland
1792 KEAR Anne Rich[ar]d Hesther Breem Newland
1797 KEAR Israel Rich[ar]d Esther Forest Newland
1805 KEAR Maria Martha Richard Esther Forest Newland

who may easily link to the possible Ann Kear branch http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=29058

George / Isaac KEAR (reply)

gwrmad — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 14:40:10 +0000

Hi
I believe that George & Isaac were brothers -sons of John Kear and Sarah Morgan.George married Mary Morgan in 1778 at Newland (onsite)she died in 1808 when he then married your Mary Griffiths ,after witnessing Elizabeths marriage he dies in 1816 age 73 (onsite)leaving Mary free to remarry .
George was born about 1744-unable yet to find a baptism for him,Isaac was baptised in 1755 at Bream.Isaac married twice 1st to Mary Morgan in 1785 she died in 1810 he then married Sarah Page in Lydney in 1814.He died in 1820.
Hope this is of some help.
Kelvin

George / Isaac KEAR (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 13:03:04 +0000

If we could narrow down which George or Isaac Kear it might help - given the possible Ann Kear link http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=29058

I'm sure there are several George / Isaac brothers in Newland / Bream....

or a father /son :-

Year 1799
Month Mar
Day 31
Parents Surname KEAR
Child Forenames George
Fathers Forenames Isaac
Mothers Forenames Mary
Mothers Surname
Residence Breem
Occupation
Officiating Minister
Event Baptism
Memoranda son of
Notes
Register Reference P57 IN 1/1
Page Number 152
Parish Chapel Bream

Thomas BOND - Newland (Parish Clerk) 1744 - 1819 (reply)

mrsbruso — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 12:57:31 +0000

Darn. Well, that certainly explains why he's a witness so often . . . but the others? Hopefully there is a bit of a clue there?

Thanks, slowhands.

Thomas BOND - Newland (Parish Clerk) 1744 - 1819 (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 07:07:42 +0000

{first the easy one !}

Year: 1744
Month: Apr
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: BOND
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: of Newland
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: updated from BT's
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 214
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1819
Month: Aug
Day: 23
Surname: BOND
Forenames: Thomas
Residence: Newland
Age_at_death: 75 [years]
Officiating_Minister: S T Morgan
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: Parish Clerk for near Thirty Years
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/16
Page_No: 58
Parish_Chapel: Newland

James GRIFFITHS & Margaret ROBERTS, Newland 1783

mrsbruso — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 02:26:33 +0000

I think I may be on the path to "my" Elizabeth GRIFFITHS, and I am hoping that someone with a) more experience in these matters, and/or b)better detective skills than mine can confirm that I may be on the right path . . .

James GRIFFITHS marries Margaret ROBERTS in Newland, 1783. They have five children, all registered at Lydney: James (1784), George (1786), Elizabeth (1788), Mary (1790) and Sarah (1800). (There are another James and Margaret in Woolaston, I have excluded them and their children born at Woolaston, but there may be another sibling in "my" group, registered at neither Lydney nor Woolaston.)

When "my" Elizabeth GRIFFITHS marries William CLARKE, in Newland in 1815, the witnesses are George KEAR and Thomas BOND.

In 1811, there is a wedding of Mary GRIFFITHS, a widow (?), to a George KEAR, with the witnesses being Isaac KEAR and Thomas BOND.

In 1822, there is a marriage between Mary GRIFFITHS and William WILDING, with the witnesses being Thomas WILDING and Sarah GRIFFITHS.

In 1823 the youngest sister and above witness, Sarah, marries William MILLETS, with the witnesses being George GRIFFITHS and Hector (UNKNOWN).

The repetitions of both Mr. George Kear and Mr. Bond seem to be a good lead to me, as well as siblings being witnesses in the two latter marriages. Or am I stretching?

I am cautiously optomistic. (And grateful that I am finally getting the hang of the advanced search feature!)

Thanks in advance for any opinions anyone might have to share on this lead.

P.S. I just noticed all three sister's have husbands named . . . William.