Eliz A Cadogan 36
Katherine 7
George 5 months

a return trip later and what appears to be a crossing via Niagara Falls from Canada to the US.

I understand the Cadogan's have been on this farm since the 1930's

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Guy Hall
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-353938-guy-hall-farmhouse-awre

Northington Lane. Guy Hall, on the west side of the lane, is the remnant of a substantial 16th- or 17th-century house, evidently owned by and named from Guy Hall (d. 1694); (fn. 74) his freehold estate, which was divided among several owners after his death, (fn. 75) probably included Guy Hall Farm, a gabled 17th-century house of rubble stone on the east side of the lane.

From: 'Awre', A History of the County of Gloucester: Volume 5: Bledisloe Hundred, St. Briavels Hundred, The Forest of Dean (1996), pp. 14-46. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23250 Date accessed: 23 December 2010.

1911 Guy Hall
HUGGETT DANIEL M 1865 46 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
HUGGETT BERTHA A F 1869 42 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
HUGGETT VIOLET SEVINA F 1902 9 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire

Name: Daniel Huggett
Name: Bertha Adelaide Smith
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Cheltenham
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 788

This family also appears to travel to Canada

1901 Guy Hall
William Jones abt 1867 Taynton, Gloucestershire, England Head Awre, Gloucestershire
Gertrude Jones abt 1875 N Wife Awre, Gloucestershire
Willie Jones abt 1894 Pendock, Worcestershire, England Son Awre, Gloucestershire
Florence Jones abt 1896 Taynton, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Awre, Gloucestershire
Wallace Jones abt 1899 Taynton, Gloucestershire, England Son Awre, Gloucestershire
Reginald Jones abt 1900 Awre, Gloucestershire, England Son Awre, Gloucestershire

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1911 Guy Hall Cottage
SHEPHERD CHARLES EDWARD M 1865 46 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD LAVINIA F 1868 43 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD BERTIE M 1905 6 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD ETHEL F 1894 17 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD FRED M 1896 15 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD HAROLD M 1892 19 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD PERCY M 1904 7 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD REGGIE M 1898 13 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD SIDNEY M 1900 11 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
SHEPHERD WILLIE M 1910 1 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire

1901
Edward Shepherd abt 1863 Yampton, Devon, England Head Heytesbury, Wiltshire
Lavinia Shepherd abt 1866 Holesworthy, Cornwall, England Wife Heytesbury, Wiltshire
Harold E Shepherd abt 1892 Yampton, Devon, England Lodger Heytesbury, Wiltshire
Ethel B Shepherd E abt 1894 Yampton, Devon, England Daughter Heytesbury, Wiltshire
Fred Chs Shepherd abt 1895 Yampton, Devon, England Son Heytesbury, Wiltshire
Reginald Shepherd abt 1898 Yampton, Devon, England Son Heytesbury, Wiltshire
Sidney Shepherd abt 1900 Market Lavington, Wiltshire, England Son Heytesbury, Wiltshire

From the 1980s research the Cadogan line is just a direct line from Alec back and they were all in the Forest, generally. Awre. The WW1 records I believe are his, although he re enlisted in Canada. He served in the Boer war as well.

The 1911 census entry for Box Tree Cottage is correct as well . . .

Alec and Bess settled in Woodstock Ontario. After Pa and Uncle Alec enlisted Aunt Bess took her own two children, and some other child with family in the Forest and returned to Blakeney where she stayed until 1919 or 1920 when sh e returned to Woodstock.

One thing that's proved helpful is that my mother, Aunts and Uncles spoke of these folks as if they h ad just left the room even though some of them had been gone for more than 50 years before I was born.

possible
Name: Mary Kathleen Cadogan
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 289

probable
Name: Katherine Mary R Cadogan
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 403

Probable

Canada, Soldiers of the First World War, 1914-1918

Alex Cadogan

Is this your Alec ??? :-)

1911 40 Trevethick St Merthyr Tydfil
CADOGAN ALEXANDER ISAAC M 1880 31 Merthyr Tydfil Glamorganshire
CADOGAN ELIZBTH ANNE F 1881 30 Merthyr Tydfil Glamorganshire
CADOGAN DORIS ELIZBTH F 1907 4 Merthyr Tydfil Glamorganshire
CADOGAN GEORGE BURNETT M 1905 6 Merthyr Tydfil Glamorganshire
CADOGAN WILLIAM ALEX JAMES M 1909 2 Merthyr Tydfil Glamorganshire

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Name: Elizabeth A Cadogan
Death Registration Month/Year: 1948
Age at death (estimated): 64
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 368

Name: Alexander I Cadogan
Death Registration Month/Year: 1947
Age at death (estimated): 66
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 340

Name: George Burnett Cadogan
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 809

Name: Doris Elizabeth M Cadogan
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 882

Name: William Alexander J Cadogan
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 869

Name: Harry C Cadogan ?
Year of Registration: 1913
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Lewis
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 892

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
----------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1904 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Cadogan Alexander Cardiff 11a 689
Lewis Elizabeth Ann Cardiff 11a 689

1901
Charles Cadogan abt 1844 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head Narberth South, Pembrokeshire
Elizabeth Cadogan abt 1845 Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales Wife Narberth South, Pembrokeshire
Hilda W Cadogan C abt 1885 Templeton, Pembrokeshire, Wales Daughter Narberth South, Pembrokeshire
Alexander Cadogan abt 1880 Issanihilad [Mamhilad], Pembrokeshire, Wales Nephew Narberth South, Pembrokeshire

1901 Pembroke Workhouse
Owen Janet [James] Cadogan abt 1891 N, Pembroke Inmate Pembroke St Mary, Pembrokeshire
Thomas Goff Cadogan abt 1893 Pembroke, United States Inmate Pembroke St Mary, Pembrokeshire [CANADA written in margin]

1891 Canada ?
Owen Cadogan name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1858 location info
Elisebth Cadogan name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1858 location info
Alexander Cadogan name,name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1880 location info
Margret Cadogan name,name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1884 location info
Sarah Cadogan name,name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1885 location info
Christina Cadogan name,name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1886 location info
William H Cadogan name,name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1888 location info
Owen J Cadogan name,name township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1890 location

By 1883 a SHAW family is the school master at Mamhilad.

1881 Mamilhad School
Owen Cadogen abt 1858 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head Llanvihangel Pontymoile, Monmouthshire Schoolmaster
Elizabeth Cadogen abt 1858 Scotland Wife Llanvihangel Pontymoile, Monmouthshire
Alexander J. Cadogen Llanvihangel, Monmouth, Wales Son Llanvihangel Pontymoile, Monmouthshire
Annie Powers abt 1867 Mamhilad, Monmouth, Wales Servant Llanvihangel Pontymoile, Monmouthshire

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/wa-18727-former-mamhilad-school-new-inn/map
Born in Mamhilad / Llanvihangel Pontymoel area just north east of Pontypool.

Name: Alexander Isaac Cadogan Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Pontypool
County: Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 134

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1879 (>99%)
-----------------------------------
CADOGAN Owen Carmarthen 11a 1031
SMITH Elizabeth Carmarthen 11a 1031

1871
Isaac Cadogan 54
Sarah Cadogan 55
Owen Cadogan 13
Amelia Cadogan 10
Agnes Cadogan 4

1861
Isaac Cadogan abt 1817 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head Cosheston, Pembrokeshire
Sarah Cadogan abt 1816 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Wife Cosheston, Pembrokeshire
Charles Cadogan abt 1844 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Son Cosheston, Pembrokeshire
Agnes Cadogan abt 1855 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Daughter Cosheston, Pembrokeshire
Owen Cadogan abt 1858 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Son Cosheston, Pembrokeshire
Amelia Cadogan abt 1860 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Daughter Cosheston, Pembrokeshire
Sarah Vaughan abt 1781 Cosheston, Pembrokeshire, Wales Mother-in-Law Cosheston, Pembrokeshire

1851 Tenby Pembrokeshire
Isaac Cadogan 34
Sarah Cadogan 35
Charles Cadogan 7
Owen Cadogan 5

Name: Isaac Cadogan
Name: Sarah Vaughan
Year of Registration: 1841
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Pembroke
County: Dyfed, Pembrokeshire
Volume: 26
Page: 707

But why would they emigrate and leave William Isaac behind? That didn't make sense to me. (At least not from the perspective of a 21st century Mum.) But trying to follow deaths for Mary Thomas in the Merthyr Tydfil area was a fairly thankless task. There were several possibilities, but I don't want to send my entire paycheck to the GRO . . . Another possibility is that something happened to Mary, but it made more sense to leave Wm Isaac with her Mum that have him be that little and be with his Dad . . .

That said, Elizabeth (LEWIS) and Alec CADOGAN are missing from the 1911 census, and their daugther Katy is with her grandmother visiting at Box Tree Cottage . . . I know Katy was with Aunt Bess when they emigrated to Canada, but there was a lot of toing and froing so it'a a possibility.

Thanks again for looking into the tangle for me.

Its me not you ! an error these are Lewis/George children

Cyril G Lewis 1914 Oct-Nov-Dec Breconshire, Glamorgan
Megan L Lewis 1915 Apr-May-Jun Breconshire, Glamorgan

The possible offspring should be George/Lewis offspring in the Neath area :-

Idriswhyn George 1908
Hilda M George 1914 Jan-Feb-Mar Breconshire, Glamorgan
Glyn George Apr May Jun 1916 Neath Wales
Mary C George Oct Nov Dec 1921 Neath Wales
Eileen George Oct Nov Dec 1923 Neath Wales

<><><><><> Marriage of a Mary LEWIS and John THOMAS
3 candidates

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
---------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Lewis Mary Merthyr T 11a 575
Thomas John Merthyr T. 11a 575

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Lewis Mary Merthyr T. 11a 776
THOMAS John Merthyr T. 11a 776

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-----------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
LEWIS Mary Merthyr T. 11a 767
THOMAS John Merthyr T. 11a 767

Of which the 1874 one would be my favoured one - based on Mary's age and the birth of William Isaac.

If two parents disappear sometimes they have moved / emmigrated - an example below.
many other sceanarios exist.

1880
John E. Thomas Saint Clair, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania abt 1854 Pennsylvania Self (Head)
Mary Thomas Saint Clair, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania abt 1856 Wales Wife
John H. Thomas Saint Clair, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania abt 1874 Wales Son
Margaret Thomas Saint Clair, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania abt 1877 Pennsylvania Dau (Daughter)
Isaac Thomas Saint Clair, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania abt 1879 Pennsylvania Son

1901
John E Thomas city, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania Wales White relation
Mary Thomas name city, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania date location White relation

I received another record from the GRO today. This is a birth certificate for William Isaac THOMAS, son of Mary LEWIS (daughter of William Lewis LEWIS and Ruth DAVIES) and her husband, John THOMAS. (10 October 1875, 48 Brecon Road, Hirwaun). My point in sending for this certificate was to find out who Mary's husband was, as there were a number of marriages between a Mary Lewis and an unknown Thomas in the registration district during that time period. So hopefully I can glean a bit more info from that. It doesn't explain what happened to John and Mary, because William L. Lewis and Ruth raised Wm. Isaac so I have to assume they met an early end. More loose ends to tie up.

Another question I am pondering, and a solution which may never present itself, is whether Gwenllian DAVIES who married Lewis William LEWIS was related in any way to his mother, Ruth.

Oddly, because of the son's name also being . . .William . . .this family turned up in my searches but for some odd reason I kept discounting them. Probably because I was looking for "my" William at the time.

Words can't express how thankful I am that you took the time to find them for me.

And now, to wrestle three small children into winter gear to ready them for school.

1861
William Lewis abt 1825 Penderyn, Breconshire, Wales Head Aberdare, Glamorgan
Ruth Lewis abt 1823 Llanfrynach, Pembrokeshire, Wales Wife Aberdare, Glamorgan
Lewis Lewis abt 1848 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales Son Aberdare, Glamorgan
William Lewis abt 1850 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales Son Aberdare, Glamorgan
Mary Lewis abt 1856 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Aberdare, Glamorgan
Edward Lewis abt 1860 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales Son Aberdare, Glamorgan

1871 Royal Artillery , Fort Victoria ?
Lewis Lewis abt 1848 Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales Gunner Freshwater, Hampshire

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1841
Thomas Aston abt 1811 Aberdare, Glamorgan
Sarah Aston abt 1806 Aberdare, Glamorgan
Jane Aston abt 1832 Glamorgan, Wales Aberdare, Glamorgan
Mary Aston abt 1834 Glamorgan, Wales Aberdare, Glamorgan
Sarah Aston abt 1832 [1840 9 months] Glamorgan, Wales Aberdare, Glamorgan

Name : Thomas Ashton
Name: Rebecca Davies
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 26
Page: 513

1851 Aberdare
Thomas Astons 44 Furnace Agent
Rebecca Astons 32
Jane Astons 19
Mary Astons 17
Sarah Astons 10

1861 ??
Thos Ashtons abt 1808 Montgomeryshire, Wales Head Aberdare, Glamorgan
Rebecca Ashtons abt 1819 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales Wife Aberdare, Glamorgan
Gwenllian Davis abt 1853 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales Relative (Other Relative) Aberdare, Glamorgan

1871
Gwenllian Davis abt 1853 Glynheath, Glamorganshire, Wales Servant Aberdare, Glamorgan

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Name: Gwenllian Davies
Name: Lewis William Lewis
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 678

1881 97 Brecon Rd
Lewis Wm. Lewis abt 1848 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Head Aberdare, Glamorgan Coal Miner
Gwenllian Lewis abt 1853 Glyn Neath, Glamorgan, Wales Wife Aberdare, Glamorgan
Ruth Gwen Lewis abt 1878 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Aberdare, Glamorgan
Daniel Lewis abt 1880 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Son Aberdare, Glamorgan

1891
Lewis Wm Lewis abt 1849 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Head Aberdare, Glamorgan
Slvenllisie Lewis abt 1853 Glynneath, Glamorgan, Wales Wife Aberdare, Glamorgan
Ruth G Lewis abt 1878 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Aberdare, Glamorgan
Daniel Lewis abt 1880 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Son Aberdare, Glamorgan
William Lewis abt 1882 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Son Aberdare, Glamorgan

1901
Lewis W Lewis abt 1848 Glam, Hirwain Head Aberdare, Glamorgan
Given Lewis abt 1853 Glam, Hirwain Wife Aberdare, Glamorgan
Ruth G Lewis abt 1879 Glam, Hirwain Daughter Aberdare, Glamorgan
William Lewis abt 1883 Glam, Hirwain Son Aberdare, Glamorgan

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Name: William George
Name: Ruth Gwenllian Lewis
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Neath (1837-1970)
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 1505

Name: Idriswhyn George
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Neath (1837-1970)
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 1026

1911
GEORGE WILLIAM M 1881 30 Neath Glamorganshire
GEORGE RUTH GWENLLIAN F 1878 33 Neath Glamorganshire
GEORGE IDRISWYN M 1909 2 Neath Glamorganshire

other George / Lewis offspring in Neath to consider :-
Hilda M George 1914 Jan-Feb-Mar Breconshire, Glamorgan
Glyn George Apr May Jun 1916 Neath Wales
Mary C George Oct Nov Dec 1921 Neath Wales
Eileen George Oct Nov Dec 1923 Neath Wales

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Name: Idriswyn George
Spouse : Dilys I Thomas
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1929
Registration district: Neath
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1723

Name: Idriswyn George
Birth Date: 14 Nov 1908
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: Neath
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 27
Page: 1968

I suspect its something simple like family choice - if they were living in a very strong Welsh area or a long family tradition then you might have found a Gwilym :-)

Ridder Person who rakes or rids coal down a steep working

Rider Attendant on an inclined plane

Geology

Rider (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) a thin seam, esp of coal or mineral ore, overlying a thicker seam

Background: Mary Ann Clarke (b. 1852), daughter of Richard Stephen Clarke(b.1820) and Sarah Ann Vining, married William William Lewis at Viney Hill on Christmas Day, 1872. He was born in Hirwaun on 14 March, 1850. According to the certificate which arrived today, his parents were married at Hirwaun, 13 March 1847. William Lewis Lewis' father was . . . Lewis Lewis, and Ruth Davies' father was . . . William Davies. (A mason, rather than a collier, shoemaker, labourer or cooper . . .I guess there's a bit of diversity in the family tree after all.)

The lack of surprise: The one relative whose identity I did not know prior to receiving this document is Ruth's father . . . who turns out to be another WILLIAM. Why am I not surprised? (In one set of records for the Welsh side of my family, they mention that the famiy was Welsh rather than English speaking. Is there a reason the name would have been recorded as "William" rather than "Gwilym"?

In one document my g. grandfather, William is described as a "coal rider". Can anyone tell me specifically what a coal rider does? I've looked at several mining websites but it's either so incredibly obvious they don't feel compelled to discuss it, or they mention that it's related to the coal seams themselves and relates to geology rather than an occupation.

Thanks.

Sandra