Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Sophia BRAIN

Sophia BRAIN (reply)

m p griffiths — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:59:25 +0000

1841 Census, St Briavels

James TIPPINS - 25 - born in County
Sophia BRAIN - 40 - born in County

Gloucestershire Burial Index & FOD records

Sophia BRAIN age 40 - 12 March 1843, St Briavels, Chapel: Littledean

If you use the Advanced Search for Sophia BRAIN (witness) - there are 5 listed

inc.

Wedding at Hope Mansell of Benjamin BRAIN to Ann HEDGES, 16 August 1824 (James BRAIN and Sophia BRAIN)

Wedding at Abenhall - of Elizabeth BRAIN to Henry YOUNG, (both of St Braivils) 11 December 1832, (Sophia BRAIN)

James BRAIN ca. 1807 (William and Beata?) (reply)

jimashton — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:30:15 +0000

Scott

The births of William & James both occurring in 1807 certainly need some explanation and the only one I can think of is a typo, perhaps others can help.

I had not noted "Widower" before in the case of William Brain's 1807 marriage to Beata, perhaps this is the answer :

Year: 1800
Month: Oct
Day: 23
Grooms_Surname: BRAYNE
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: [not stated]
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: this Parish [Littledean]
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: MORGAN
Brides_Forenames: Jane
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: this Parish [Littledean]
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: 1800 Oct 5 12 & 19
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: John Rees
Witness_2: Thomas Brayne
Other_Witnesses: Anth[on]y Cooper
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Fryer Min[iste]r
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P110 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 49
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

Year: 1802
Month: Mar
Day: 6
Surname: BRAINE
Forenames: Jane
Residence:
Age_at_death: 29
Officiating_Minister: W Morgan Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P110 IN 1/4
Page_No: 7
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

I have edited this as I have noted that Slowhands has beaten me by 20 minutes with the same detail !!!!

Strange that I cannot find a burial for a Sophia Brain, daughter of William & Jane as William and Beata had their own Sophia in 1822

Jim Ashton

Jane BRAIN nee MORGAN 1773- 1802 Littledean (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:07:51 +0000

Williams first marriage ?

Cooper family Ruffett / Littledean
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=9881

Year: 1801
Month: Aug
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: BRAINE
Child_Forenames: Sophia
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Wm Morgan Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: dau[ghte]r of Born Aug[us]t 11
Notes:
Register_Reference: P110 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 10
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

<><><> possible

Year: 1843
Month: Mar
Day: 12
Surname: BRAIN
Forenames: Sophia
Residence: Hundred of St Briavels
Age_at_death: 40
Officiating_Minister: G. L. Parsons Off[iciatin]g Min[iste]r
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death: [not sta
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 110 IN 1/11
Page_No: 93
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

James BRAIN ca. 1807 (William and Beata?) (reply)

Scott Shuster — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:48:56 +0000

Many thanks to Slowhands, Mary and Jim for your replies to my original post. I know I have communicated wilth all of you several times over the years, and all of you have been very helpful.

What has me somewhat confused here is the time line (and maybe my own "blinders"):

1. William BRAIN marries Beata BEDDIS, 1 Jan 1807 (BANNS recorded November 14, 21 and 28, 1806).

2. Son William Baptized 5 April 1807, birth date recorded as "March 4"

3. Son James Baptized 3 August 1807, birth date recorded as "June 10"

4. Son Benjamin Baptized 9 November 1809, birth date recorded as "June 16, 1809"

I am not naiive - it's entirely possible that either William and/or James were born out of wedlock, or that Beata was with child when she was married.

Also, on the marriage record, William is listed as a Widower. I have not identified his first wife (possibly Mary YEARSLEY?). So I guess it is also possible that William and/or James could be children from his first marriage??

Would it have been common for children from a previous marriage to be baptized under the name of the step mother?

I only have one BRAIN in my direct line - Hester BRAIN/BRAYNE who married Thomas GRINDAL 1778.

That being said, I have interest in the BRAIN lines as they intersect at many points with my GRINDLE line.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the above.

Best to you all!

James BRAIN ca. 1807 (William and Beata?) (reply)

jimashton — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:11:19 +0000

Scott

My family tree software defines my relationship with anyone in my Family Tree, so I know you are my 7th cousin. I can also nominate anyone in my Family Tree to be temporarily the source person, so I can see that you are not related to the James Brain born 10 June, baptised 3 Aug 1807. However, his wife Mary Herbert baptised 31 Oct 1809 is your 1st cousin 4 times removed. I am not related to James Brain 1807 either. However, his wife Mary Herbert 1809 is my half 1st cousin 4 times removed

It is difficult to be 100% accurate, but I am fairly certain that this is the right James Brain, son of William Brain & Beata Beddis.

I have 39 James Brain's in my Family Tree and some are close in time to the above James and sometimes when you have established marriages for them plus census data for appropriate eras, it helps to confirm the accuracy of the others :

James Brain 1809 son of James Brain & Ann married Agnes Roberts 1811 on 17 Sep 1832

James Brain 1816 son of John Brain & Elizabeth Knight married Ann Matthews 1817 on 23 Aug 1840

James Brain 1817 son of James Brain & Sarah Drew married Ann Harris 1814 on 18 Feb 1839

Jim Ashton

James BRAIN ca. 1807 (William and Beata?) (reply)

Jean Herbert — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:01:13 +0000

Is this of any help? Regards Jean Herbert
Baptism of James Brain
Record_ID: 185309
Date : 3 Aug 1817
Parents Surname: BRAIN
Child Forenames: James
Father's Forenames: Will[ia]m
Mother's Forenames: Beatock
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of Born June 10
Register Reference: P110 IN 1/4
Page No: 14
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

OR COULD BE THIS ONE
JAMES BRAINE
Event(s):
Birth: 10 JUN 1807
Christening: 03 AUG 1807 Little Dean, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM BRAINE
Mother: BEATAH
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C029962 1617 - 1812 0425456 Film 6911755 Film
Sheet: 00

Marriage record of marriage of James Brain to Mary Herbert
Record_id 160 Entry Number 160
Date 30 April 1831
Groom - James BRAIN Bachelor
Groom Residence hundred of St. Briavels
Bride - Mary HERBERT Spinster
Bride Residence of the same hundred
Licence or Banns Banns
Signature or Mark Both mark
Witness 1 Mark of Benjamin Brain
Witness 2 Mark of Sarah Herbert
Officiating Minister R. Cope Wolfe Curate
Register Reference P1 IN 1/9 Page No 54
Parish/Chapel Abenhall

James BRAIN ca. 1807 (William and Beata?) (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:05:43 +0000

this is physically impossible,
only if both were born in 1807 - how about a birth in 1806 and baptism a year later ??

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=11815

Year: 1807
Month: Aug
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: James
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Beatock
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: George Pyrke Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of Born June 10 Notes: Mother is Beatah in BTs
Register_Reference: P110 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 14
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

JAMES BRAINE
-----------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 10 JUN 1807
Christening: 03 AUG 1807
Little Dean, Gloucester, England
------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM BRAINE
Mother: BEATAH
---------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
-------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C029962 1617 - 1812 0425456 Film 6911755 Film
Sheet: 00

James BRAIN ca. 1807 (William and Beata?)

Scott Shuster — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:16:23 +0000

I've been reviewing any number of posts regarding James BRAIN, baptized 3 August 1807. Parents listed as James and Beatock. I have this James attached to William and Beata BEDDIS Brain. The record states "Born June 10".

I also have a William BRAIN, baptized 5 April 1807. Parents listed as William and Beatah. Record states "Born March 4".

Both baptisms ocurred in Littledean and were performed by Minister George Pyrke.

Obviously, this is physically impossible, but I've only been able to document one "Beata" in the records of that period - despite any number of spelling variations (Beatah, Beata, Beateh, Beatock)

There are several threads on James Brain, but has anyone figured this out with any degree of certainty?

Any information/clarification is greatly appreciated! (Before I lose what little of my mind that I still have...) :-)