Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Sarah Ann THOMAS B. 1873. Abertillery

Sarah Ann THOMAS B. 1873. Abertillery (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 16:53:14 +0000

1871 Abertillery
Edmund Price 49
Sarah Price 47
Ann Price 19 Tin plate worker
Edmund Price 18
Samuel Price 11
John E Price 5

There are several Sarah Ann's born in that period so narrowing down the correct birth record to order is tricky.

She is living next door to Thomas and Ann in 1881, so I suspect she is their daughter , perhaps the parents house was too small for the family.

My guess is she marries and that is why you cannot spot her in later census data.

Sarah Ann THOMAS B. 1873. Abertillery (reply)

Norman Johnston — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 15:12:51 +0000

1Wow1, that was quick. Details of Sarah Price and her family.. 1881/91. CORRECT.
You have also found what has always baffled me, Sarah Ann Thomas is down as her niece in 1881 and her Grandaughter in 1891. My question has always been, who were Sarah Ann's Parents and what happened to her in the future?
She seems to disappear from the future Censii. I admire what you are doing. Norman

Sarah Ann THOMAS B. 1873. Abertillery (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 14:46:26 +0000

Are these the same family units ?

Name: Norman B Johnston
Mother's Maiden Surname: Childs
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1928
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 547

Name: John Johnston
Spouse: Irene M Childs
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1925
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 630

1911
JOHNSTON NORMAN M 1874 37 Cardiff Glamorganshire
JOHNSTON MARY F 1878 33 Cardiff Glamorganshire
JOHNSTON EILEEN F 1904 7 Cardiff Glamorganshire
JOHNSTON JOHN M 1905 6 Cardiff Glamorganshire

1902
Name: Norman Brown Johnston
Name: Mary Jane Thomas
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 467

1891 Grocers Shop
Sarah Price abt 1824 Aberystruth, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Mynyddyslwyn, Monmouthshire
William Price abt 1858 Aberystruth, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddyslwyn, Monmouthshire
Samuel Price abt 1860 Aberystruth, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddyslwyn, Monmouthshire
Sarah Ann Thomas abt 1873 Aberystruth, Monmouthshire, Wales Granddaughter Mynyddyslwyn, Monmouthshire
Mary Jane Thomas abt 1877 Aberystruth, Monmouthshire, Wales Granddaughter Mynyddyslwyn, Monmouthshire

1881
Sarah Price abt 1824 Argoed, Monmouth, Wales Head Aberystruth, Monmouthshire Baker
Edward Price abt 1853 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Son Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Mary Price abt 1855 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
John E. Price abt 1866 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Son Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Sarah A. Thomas abt 1873 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Niece Aberystruth, Monmouthshire

next door to
1881
Thomas Thomas abt 1837 Redbrook, Gloucestershire, England Head Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Ann Thomas abt 1851 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Wife Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Robert Thomas abt 1874 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Son Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth Thomas abt 1875 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Mary J. Thomas abt 1876 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Beatrice Thomas abt 1879 Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Pricilla Thomas Abertillery, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire

<><><><><>

1891
Thomas Thomas abt 1853 Machen, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Ann Thomas abt 1851 Abertylery, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Beatrice Thomas abt 1879 Abertylery, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Priscella Thomas abt 1881 Abertylery, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Thomas Edmund Thomas abt 1884 Abertylery, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
John Thomas abt 1887 Abertylery, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Aberystruth, Monmouthshire

1871 Aberystruth
Thomas Thomas 36 Widow Machen
Emily Thomas 11 Machen
Robert J Thomas 7 Machen
Elizabeth Thomas 2 Machen

1861
Thomas Thomas abt 1836 Newland Head Machen Upper, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth Thomas abt 1842 Machen Wife Machen Upper, Monmouthshire
Emely Thomas abt 1860 Machen Daughter Machen Upper, Monmouthshire

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/Machen-Parish-Record-Tran...

Machen Baptisms
1 Aug 1860 Emily d/o Thos & Elizth Thomas, Machen Upper, furnace man

Sarah Ann Thomas B. 1873. Abertillery (reply)

Norman Johnston — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 14:38:25 +0000

I am trying to find the parents of a Sarah Ann Thomas B. 1873, in Abertillery and on the Census Wales of 1891, she is shown as a Grandaughter living with another Grandaughter, Mary Jane Thomas (my paternal Grandmother), Born 1877 at 3, Commercial St. Abertillery, They were then living with their maternal Grandmother, Sarah Price and her offspring in Newbridge Rd,Penmaen.
My Grandmother Mary Jane was born of Thomas Thomas who married Elizabeth Rees in Machen 1859, she died in 1870 and Thomas married again to an Ann Price in 1871 in Abertillery. but Sarah is not shown on their list of children
I have been unsuccessful in Identifying Sarah Ann's Thomas parents, or finding out if Thomas Thomas and Ann are her parents,so if not, do you think she can be an offspring of one of the other Children of William and Elizabeth Thomas, so I think it may be a wild hope in asking you if can find her, I realise it it probably out of your area, but I hope not, Norman.

Edward THOMAS 1835 Redbrook (reply)

Norman Johnston — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 07:44:40 +0000

Thanks again for the info'.
The Thomas history in Machen, is formulating now.
That puts Willam thomas married there 25.Dec 1821. Possible marriage of John Thomas to a Harriet Baker 11.Feb.1849, Thomas Thomas to an Elizabeth Rees in 1859 and Edward Thomas to a Margaret Rees in 1861.
I wonder if the both Rees girls were re-lated??
I wonder if they died there??
I also wonder if descendents are still there??
Again, thanks for your help, may I come back to you if necessary, please ?.
regards, Norman

Edward THOMAS 1835 Redbrook (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:34:01 +0000

Marriage is

Name: Margaret Rees
Name: Edward Thomas
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Newport M
County: Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 244

Edward THOMAS 1835 Redbrook (reply)

Norman Johnston — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:06:13 +0000

Thank you very much for the further Info'. My Family History List is now taking shape, thanks to you and Marilyn Griffiths. The Margaret that Edmund married in 1861 at Upper Machen, was Thomas her previous surname or Thomas from her marriage ?.
I see that that they recorded two places, for her birth in 1843, one lanedarne, which I would think was Llanedyrn, nearer to St.Mellons Mon, or Michaelstone, would that be Michaelstone-y-Vedw Mon, near Castleton Mon. I am researching on Familysearch.com and I cannot find anything of the details you have given me, I am appreciative of your help, Norman

John THOMAS & Harriet BAKER (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 07:53:11 +0000

this is on the Monmouthshire Parish Register Transcripts link - at Machen

11 February 1849

John THOMAS FA.B Labr. Machin. John THOMAS, Labr. Harriett BAKER X FA.S. Marshfield. John BAKER, Labr.
Wit: Thos MORGAN, Maria THOMAS. after Banns from Union

Edward THOMAS 1835 Redbrook (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 07:32:24 +0000

1901
Margaret Thomas abt 1842 Michaelston, Glamorgan, Wales Head Upper Machen, Monmouthshire
Edwin Davey abt 1863 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Lodger Upper Machen, Monmouthshire

1891
Edward Thomas abt 1839 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Machen, Monmouthshire
Margaret Thomasabt 1844 Michaelston, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Machen, Monmouthshire
Mary E Thomas abt 1868 Machen, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Machen, Monmouthshire

1881
Edward Thomas abt 1841 Redbrook, Monmouth, Wales Head Upper Machen, Monmouthshire
Margaret Thomas abt 1844 Lanedarne, Glamorgan, Wales Wife Upper Machen, Monmouthshire
Mary E. Thomas abt 1868 Machen, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Upper Machen, Monmouthshire
William J. Thomas abt 1871 Machen, Monmouth, Wales Son Upper Machen, Monmouthshire

1871 Upper Machen
Edward Thomas 36 Newland
Margret Thomas 28 Michaelstone GLAM
Jane Ann Thomas 9 Machen
Elizebeth Thomas 3 Machen
William Jno Thomas 7 Months Machen

Name: Margaret Rees
Name: Edward Thomas
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Newport M
County: Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 244

1851
William Thomas 65 Llanelli Carmarth.
Elizabeth Thomas 55 Machen Mon
Jane Thomas 22 Newlamb Mon
William Thomas 21 Newlamb Mon
Ann Thomas 19 Newlamb Mon
Thomas Thomas 16 Newlamb Mon
Edward Thomas 13 Newlamb Mon
William Davis 21 Newlamb Mon
Mary James 14

John THOMAS & Harriet BAKER (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 07:26:07 +0000

Name: Harriett Baker
Name: John Thomas
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Newport M
County: Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 26
Page: 101

1851 Machen
John Thomas 31 Michaelstone GLAM
Harriet Thomas 26 Peterstone
John Thomas 1 Machen

possibly not your John Thomas

Enumerators Instructions 1841 census (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 07:22:53 +0000

'slowhands' has already answered the question re: all aged 15 on the 1841 census

read the link below which is very helpful

Instructions Enumerators 1841 census

http://home.clara.net/tirbach/HelpPage1841.html

In previous replies, a link has been given for Machen records - not covered by the Forest of Dean

William THOMAS & (Elizabeth MORGAN?) - Marriage Act 1929 (reply)

Norman Johnston — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 06:48:24 +0000

Hi Marilyn,
Thank you very much for the info' on the Marriage Act, I did not have any knowledge of this, interesting.

I am not having any luck with finding the before mentioned details of the marriage details of this John and Edmund Thomas.
Did John marry a Harriet Baker on the 11.Feb.1849, in Machen?

Is it possible to find the details of both of them?

How can John Mary and Elizabeth be aged 15 in 1841?
John born in the County and Elizabeth born out of the County?
A baffled Norman

William THOMAS & (Elizabeth MORGAN?) (reply)

Norman Johnston — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 13:32:19 +0000

Thank you for your prompt info'. Do you know anything of this family? Thanks , Norman

William THOMAS & (Elizabeth MORGAN?) - Marriage Act 1929 (reply)

m p griffiths — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:29:09 +0000

'Edmund born 1835 - would be aged 16 - so married with a family, I think would be doubtful'

Life expectancy was low. By the end of the 19th century - 47 years men/50 years women.

Up until the Marriage Act 1929 - males could marry at 14, females at 12 years of ago. Even some of my ancestors were as young as this when they married. My x grandmother was christened 25 January 1810 and married 3 May 1824 (1st child christened 13 November 1824) - and my Dad's Mum was 16 years old and gave birth to her first child, as few months after marriage.

Children of William & Elizabeth THOMAS Redbrook (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:58:22 +0000

How can that be, ha,ha ?

In the 1841 returns adolescent and adult ages are often rounded to the nearest multiple of 5 hence they are all shown as 15.....

William THOMAS & (Elizabeth MORGAN?) (reply)

Norman Johnston — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:54:57 +0000

Hi Marilyn, please can you help me again. I am attempting to chronicle all the info' recieved to start up an historical list, starting with Wiliam Thomas B. 1801 in Llanelli, I do not have ny further knowledge of his life until you tell me he is married on the 25.12.1821, to Elizabeth Morgan, B. 1801 in Machen, I am assuming that they lived in Machen until they move to the Redbrook Newland area of the FOD and start a family in about 1823-5.

I am at a loss to understand, that on the 1841 Census that you sent to me, that it shows the 1st 3 children John, Mary and Elizabeth were all the same age at 15, which makes them all born in 1826, John was born in the County and the girls were not born in the County. How can that be, ha,ha ?

By the 1851.Census, for whatever reason, they have returned with the family to live again in Machen.

Apparently my Gr/Grandfather Thomas B.1834-5 in the FOD, now by 1849, approx age 14-15 as a Tinplate Worker, has already moved to Machen and is lodging with a Rees Family, I have been told by others, the address was in Black Vein, Lower Machen. He is on the 1851 Census. 1859. He marries an Elizabeth Rees (different family)(No details of Church,their living address there or any previous details of his wife Elizabeth Rees} .

Another query to answer if possible please, on yours of 22.Feb.

On the 1851 Census. The son John Thomas is living in Machen seperately from the family and at 25 he is now married (No details of marriage,work, address, etc) with his own family.

Living next door, is his brother Edward and his family (No details of marriage,work, address,etc.)I believe that Edmund . Born 24.Aug.1835, at this date would have been aged 16.
So married with a family, I think would be doubtful,what do you think?
This is as far as I have got to, up to today, always subject to my everpresent health problems.
Is it possible to find the details of of my queries?
I hope that I am not asking too much of you, so I will await your anser in your own time and convenience, regards, Norman.

William THOMAS & Elizabeth MORGAN (reply)

m p griffiths — Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:04:00 +0000

Monmouthshire Parish Record Transcripts

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/monprts.htm

Marriage at MACHEN

25 December 1821

Wm. THOMAS (Machen)- batch
Elizth MORGAN x (Machen) - spin

wit: Hannah MATTHEWS; Wm. MORGAN, x Nantykissen?

William THOMAS & (Elizabeth MORGAN?) (reply)

m p griffiths — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:46:08 +0000

Thomas

re: your message off-line

'it is possible that you may know of and be able to send me more details of William's place of birth, plus also, same for his wife and the same details for their offspring/ Is it also possible to find the details of the wives/husbands/children of Williams and Elizabeth's children'

Looking at the 1841 census, the only children born after 1837 was Robert who was 5 months on the 1841 census.

on the Gloucestershire BMD

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd

We have a possible Robert James THOMAS birth registered, Forest of Dean, Coleford, mother's maiden name MORGAN. This is also on FreeBDM - O/N/D Qtr 1840 - Monmouth District, which covers Coleford/Newland.

There are two baptisms on the FOD site: for the children of William & Elizabeth THOMAS

If you look at the 1841 census, John age 15 (was born in County)

He was baptised at English Bicknor - 6 April 1823, to William & Elizabeth - of Lidbrook, and William was a Journeyman Tin Works. So William & Elizabeth THOMAS were married pre 1823, one would assume.

(John THOMAS is also in Machen 1851 Census, (Copper Works) - with his wife and family) - next door to his brother Edward THOMAS and family

Also, Jane THOMAS christening - age 13 on the 1841 census (born in County) - is also on FOD records at Newland

18 May 1828, residence: Redbrook - William & Eliz(abe)th THOMAS - and William was a Millman.

On the 1851 Census, Monmouthshire, Machen - we have

Twyn Lych

William THOMAS - Head, 55, Tinplate Roller, born Llanelli Carmathen
Elizabeth - wife - 55 - born Machen, Monmouthshire
Jane THOMAS - 22, Tinplate Buffer, Newland, Mon
William THOMAS - 21 - Tinplate Washerman - born ditto
Ann THOMAS - 19, Tinplate Rubbert, born ditto
Thomas - 16 foregeman, born Newland Mon
Edward - 13 - born ditto

William DAVIES - lodger - 21 Tinplate warehouse born Newland, Mon
and

Mary JAMES - Serv - 14 - Nurse Servant, born Mon

Thomas Thomas - 1841 Census (reply)

Norman Johnston — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:46:54 +0000

Thank you so much for your prompt and helpful info'. Can you tell me how to break it down to individual details, of their dates of birth (Where?)Marriages (Where)Children and Deaths (Where) I am 83 years old, becoming a little slow and an amateur on a PC, so please be patient and bear with me, everything has to be explained very thoroughly. Again many thanks, Norman

Thomas Thomas - 1841 Census (reply)

m p griffiths — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 08:29:21 +0000

1841 Census, Glos Newland

Bunker Hill

THOMAS

William - 40 - Tin Roller (not born in County)
Elizabeth - 40 - (not born in County)
John - 15 - Furnace Man - (born in County)
Mary - 15 - Tin Blocks? - (not born in County)
Elizabeth - 15 - (not born in County)
Jane - 13 - (born in County)
William - 11 - Tin Listing (not born in County)
Ann - 9 - (not born in County)
Thomas - 7 - (born in County)
Edward - 5 - (born in County) - 1871 census, Upper Machen, Monmouthshire
Robert - 5 months (born in County)