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<title>Forest of Dean FHT  Forum -  - Alfred Hulin m Elizabeth Morgan 1853</title>
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<title>Alfred Hulin m Elizabeth Morgan 1853 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julia, <br />
sorry no brainwaves here yet ! Also you have the advantage on me having Census access, I didn&#039;t know there was a John Morgan living with the Hulins although that does seem to make a strong case for him ?. <br />
Re your points:</p>
<p>1. I see from MPG&#039;s census&#039;s that John Morgan publican was also a sawyer in 1841. I wonder if he&#039;d been a sawyer who perhaps thro illhealth or lack of work had moved into the inn trade as many men dream of..in 1851 he&#039;s running the Carpenter&#039;s Arms, did he name it so ?.  Apparently not, according to the Wye Valley Hotel site the pub &amp; name dates back to at least 1835.  <br />
<a href="http://www.tintern.org.uk/hotel.htm">http://www.tintern.org.uk/hotel.htm</a><br />
I know there are other Carpenter&#039;s Arms in the area, Wye boatbuilding history perhaps, key before the roads &amp; railways ? <br />
While Googling the pub I got the Ancestry freepages <a href="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/tintern/tintmarr1837-1945.htm">http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/tintern/tintmarr1837-1945...</a><br />
These give several Morgans including &quot;your&quot; marriage but sadly no more detail at all. Also has the marriage of Alfred Morgan, publican John&#039;s son, in 1858. This quotes Alfred as a Labourer and John back to being a Sawyer again. In other words he went where the work was. Personally I don&#039;t read too much into the &quot;lab&quot; or &quot;ag-lab&quot; term, I think it a broad &quot;wherewithall&quot; term covering a multitude of possible &amp; typical rural jobs which were probably in the majority in Tintern then, be it at the wharf, the cider mill, in the woods or fields.</p>
<p>2. As far as I know the Banns are applied for by the couple hoping to marry,  although it&#039;s quite possible a parent&#039;s name might get onto a letter or note given to the Minister perhaps, but what chance that surviving ?. I imagine it would have been recorded in the Minister&#039;s &quot;daybook&quot; but it becomes irrelevant so unwanted once they&#039;re married. I guess the Marriage Certificate is just reflecting what official records there are still available, or in this case not. </p>
<p>This forum thread is essentially asking the same question, with no conclusive answer, but worth reading ?<br />
<a href="http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-23163.html">http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-23163.html</a></p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35405</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>John and Jane Morgan (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Their Witness,  George Thomas is Jane&#039;s brother so I know this is the correct marriage,</p>
<p> I&#039;m not certain if I have the correct John Morgan&#039; birth, I am pretty sure he is the son of John and Elizabeth Morgan baptised 26 December 1802 - Tintern, but, there are are a number of John Morgans born in the Forest around that time, I have eliminated <br />
pretty much all of them, just wished there was someway to confirm John and Elizabeth as his parent.</p>
<p>Two of thie children have the names John and Elizabeth, so maybe I am on the right track, <br />
 <br />
The 1841 census says he was born in St Briavels- 1802</p>
<p>1851 - Alvington-  1801</p>
<p>1861 Alvington/Newland- 1804</p>
<p>many thanks for any insights you might have!</p>
<p>Julia</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35403</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Julia McMillen</dc:creator>
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<title>Alfred Hulin m Elizabeth Morgan 1853 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff</p>
<p>Well in all the other census report John Morgan was an ag, labourer, I am pretty sure that the John Morgan I am looking for was not the John Morgan who was living with the Hulins.</p>
<p>The marrriage certifcate did not show their parents would the Banns have this information?</p>
<p>very many thanks</p>
<p>Julia</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35402</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35402</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Julia McMillen</dc:creator>
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<title>Alfred HULIN/Elizabeth MORGAN (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1861 Census St Briavels</p>
<p>HULIN</p>
<p>Alfred - 31 - born St Briavels<br />
Elizabeth - 29 (c1832) born Monmouth, Tintern<br />
Jane - 7 - born Monmouth, Tintern<br />
Alfred - 4 - born St Briavels  <br />
Susannah - 2 - born St Briavels</p>
<p><br />
?</p>
<p>possible</p>
<p>1841 Census, Monmouthshire, Tintern Parva</p>
<p>King HEAD</p>
<p>MORGAN</p>
<p>John - 35 - Victualler &amp; Sawyer - all born in County<br />
Margarett - 30<br />
Elizabeth - 9<br />
William - 7<br />
Alfred - 5<br />
Sara Ann - 2</p>
<p><br />
1851 Census, Monmouthshire, Tintern</p>
<p>Carpenter Arms</p>
<p>MORGAN</p>
<p>John - 47 - Publican - all born Tintern<br />
Margaret - 45<br />
Elizabeth - 19<br />
Willm - 16<br />
Alfred - 15<br />
Sarah Anne - 12<br />
Margaret Emma - 7</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35401</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>m p griffiths</dc:creator>
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<title>Alfred Hulin m Elizabeth Morgan 1853 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julia, you&#039;re welcome. There&#039;s certainly plenty to chose from !!</p>
<p>What trade were you expecting ?</p>
<p>(Bear in mind in those days almost anyone could become a publican, perhaps after &quot;retiring&quot; from another completely different trade thro injury etc..)</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35399</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Alfred Hulin m Elizabeth Morgan 1853 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jeff</p>
<p>I can see from this record that this Elizabeth Morgan&#039;s father was a Publican,this isn&#039;t the trade I expected her father to be in, so maybe I have the wrong Elizabeth Morgan!</p>
<p>Julia</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35398</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Julia McMillen</dc:creator>
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<title>Alfred Hulin m Elizabeth Morgan 1853 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For completeness:</p>
<p>Record_ID: 44604 <br />
Entry_Number:  <br />
Year: 1853 <br />
Month: May <br />
Day: 28 <br />
Grooms_Surname: HULIN <br />
Grooms_Forenames: Alfred <br />
Grooms_Age: full <br />
Groom_Condition: bachelor <br />
Grooms_Occupation: painter &amp; glazier <br />
Grooms_Residence: St Briavells <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: HULIN <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: James <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: labr <br />
Brides_Surname: MORGAN <br />
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth <br />
Brides_Age: full <br />
Brides_Condition: spinster <br />
Brides_Occupation:  <br />
Brides_Residence: Tintern <br />
Brides_Fathers_Surname: MORGAN <br />
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John <br />
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: publican <br />
Licence_or_Banns: banns <br />
Date_of_Banns:  <br />
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign <br />
Witness_1: James Hulin <br />
Witness_2: Elizabeth Brown <br />
Other_Witnesses:  <br />
Officiating_Minister:  <br />
Event: Marriage <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference:  <br />
Page_Number:  <br />
Parish_Chapel: Tintern Monmouth <br />
Soundex_Groom: H450 <br />
Soundex_Bride: M625</p>
<p>Elizabeth of full age (21) so born abt 1832 or (much!?)earlier. <br />
Resides Tintern, father John, publican.</p>
<p>Alfred Hulin presumably a similar age.<br />
Painter &amp; glazier, resides St Briavels, father James, labourer.</p>
<p>There are only 8 PRs in total for Alf Hulins on this site.<br />
The most likely Baptism is in 1830, but the 1798 one is not impossible.</p>
<p>There are approx 80 Baptisms for Eliza Morgans in this same period....</p>
<p>In my opinion purely on face of it the most likely one is:</p>
<p>Record_ID: 198577 <br />
Entry_Number:  <br />
Year: 1831 <br />
Month: Nov <br />
Day: 20 <br />
Parents_Surname: MORGAN <br />
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth <br />
Fathers_Forenames: John <br />
Mothers_Forenames: Margaret <br />
Mothers_Surname:  <br />
Residence: Tintern <br />
Occupation: sawyer <br />
Officiating_Minister:  <br />
Event: Baptism <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference:  <br />
Page_Number:  <br />
Parish_Chapel: Tintern Monmouth <br />
Soundex: M625 </p>
<p>It&#039;s the ony one in Tintern although thats not evidence alone of course.</p>
<p><br />
Re your suggestion:</p>
<p>Record_ID: 26933 <br />
Entry_Number: 163 <br />
Year: 1826 <br />
Month: Oct <br />
Day: 1 <br />
Grooms_Surname: MORGAN <br />
Grooms_Forenames: John <br />
Grooms_Age:  <br />
Groom_Condition: Batchelor [s <br />
Grooms_Occupation:  <br />
Grooms_Residence: of this parish <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:  <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:  <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:  <br />
Brides_Surname: SMITH <br />
Brides_Forenames: Jane <br />
Brides_Age:  <br />
Brides_Condition: Spinster <br />
Brides_Occupation:  <br />
Brides_Residence: of this parish <br />
Brides_Fathers_Surname:  <br />
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:  <br />
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:  <br />
Licence_or_Banns: Banns <br />
Date_of_Banns:  <br />
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark <br />
Witness_1: Mark of George Thomas <br />
Witness_2: Mark of Hannah Thomas <br />
Other_Witnesses: Thomas Hulin Clark <br />
Officiating_Minister: Walter Henry Hill Curate <br />
Event: Marriage <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/10 <br />
Page_Number: 55 <br />
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels <br />
Soundex_Groom: M625 <br />
Soundex_Bride: S530 </p>
<p><br />
Presume this is the Baptism you mean ?</p>
<p>Record ID 59543 <br />
Entry Number 591 <br />
Year 1832 <br />
Month Jul <br />
Day 22 <br />
Parents Surname MORGAN <br />
Child Forenames Eliza <br />
Fathers Forenames John <br />
Mothers Forenames Jane <br />
Mothers Surname  <br />
Residence Fence <br />
Occupation Labourer <br />
Officiating Minister H.H.Morgan Vicar <br />
Event Baptism <br />
Memoranda  <br />
Notes  <br />
Register Reference P278 IN 1/5 <br />
Page Number 74 <br />
Parish Chapel St Briavels </p>
<p>(I&#039;ve heard of sitting on the Fence, but never living on one ! ;-)</p>
<p>So yes your suggestion is entirely possible, looking up the 1851 Census for pre-marriage family groups may help?</p>
<p>Do you have any other links (eg thro witnesses) that may help confirm ?</p>
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<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Alfred Hulin</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know if the Elizabeth Morgan, who married Alfred Hulin in 1853 is the daughter of John Morgan, labourer and Jane Smith</p>
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<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Julia McMillen</dc:creator>
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