Ann Probert of Monmouth, England (General)

by Will MacCallum @, Canada, Monday, February 21, 2005, 13:11 (7092 days ago)

I am looking for my ancestor Ann Probert (born c.1825).

Years ago, my great-grandmother told me about her grandmother Ann
Webster nee Probert. She said she was originally from Red Rock Farm,
Monmouth, England. She left home quite young and went to Brazil where
she was 'staying with' the family of an owner of a fleet of Tea
Clippers, whose name has only been remembered as 'Sir Charles', when she
met her future husband, James Henry Webster. He was part of the crew on
one of the Tea Clippers. She married him and sailed for a year or so
with him before settling in Liverpool, so my great-grandmother told me.

Recently I have uncovered some more information about our Ann Probert.
According to her March 23, 1850 Liverpool marriage certificate, her
father was James Probert, a farmer. According to the 1881 census, if we
trust that her age was correct, Ann was born in either 1825 or 1826 at
Coleford, Gloucestershire. This at first glance would seem to contradict
the oral family history, but that might be a hasty conclusion I think. I
hired a researcher in Gloucester to find a record of her birth or
baptism but there is no record of her in the Gloucester Records Office.

In looking carefully at my maps I see a Redbrook right on the old
Monmouthshire/Gloucestershire border. So I asked myself: might my
ancester have actually been from Red brook Farm, Monmouth, England? ( I
know it would be considered Wales now, but in the 19th century it was
part of England I believe) Could the name of the farm have been corrupted while being handed down orally?

It appeared though that Redbrook is considered to be in Gloucestershire.
Then I found the current address of a local genealogist Glynnis
Clark which is Glenvale, Redbrook, Monmouth, Wales. So it seems to me
that an address of Redbrook, Monmouth, England in the nineteenth century
is a real possibility.

Can anyone refute my conjecture by telling me where Red Rock Farm,
Monmouth, England was? If not, were there Proberts near Redbrook in the
19th century? The only James Probert I have found yet who could be Ann's
father was living at Scowles, Coleford, Gloucestershire in 1841 and
1851, which I understand is known for its red earth. Ann was not listed as living with this James in either census but she was probably old enough (at least 15) to have left home and been working (maybe in Brazil!) by 1841.

Also can anybody shed any light on who 'Sir Charles' the owner of a
fleet of Tea Clippers might have been? Has anybody heard of other young
women from the area going to Brazil of all places?

I would appreciate greatly any ideas or information you might have.

Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Dave Probert @, Oz, Monday, April 10, 2006, 15:34 (6679 days ago) @ Will MacCallum

Interesting !!!
I,ll have a look for you!!!!
There were Proberts' based at Westbury on Severn. Probert farm is still there.
My Great, Great, Great Grand father was James Probert and had a daughter Ann born in 1825 in Lea Herefrordshire.
I`ll have a look to see what I can find.

Dave Probert

Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by biddy @, Tuesday, April 11, 2006, 05:26 (6679 days ago) @ Will MacCallum


There is a chance you could be right about the name being Redbrook Farm. There used to be both an Upper and a Lower Redbrook Farm - now renamed Valley House and Lodges Farm - in Newland (see British History Online / Victoria County History Gloucestershire vol 5 / Newland ... map of Newland and Redbrook 1880). As Coleford used to be part of Newland parish it could explain the census.
Also noted from GRO genealogical database a James Probert of Newland plus an Ann Probert (child) listed as Non-conformists. I could have a look next time I'm there if you like - if only to eliminate them.


Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Ladkyis, Saturday, May 13, 2006, 03:30 (6647 days ago) @ biddy

As to a "Sir Charles" that owned a fleet of tea clippers Hmmm the most notable local "Sir Charles" is, of course, Sir Charles Morgan Bart He had a ship. he had a docks, well he gave the land that built the docks in Newport. His family - the Morgans of Tredegar House - had their fingers in a lot of pies and trade between Brazil and Newport would have been good, all that lovely timber.

Just a thought.


Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Will MacCallum @, Sunday, May 14, 2006, 06:45 (6646 days ago) @ Ladkyis

Dear Ladykis:

Thanks for the information on Sir Charles Morgan Bart. I can't wait to dive into researching him and his family as it seems to me to be a very strong lead.

Regards, Will

Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Ladkyis, Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 23:07 (6642 days ago) @ Will MacCallum

Can I suggest that you address you initial search to
the Curator,
Tredegar House

They can tell you where the records for the family are kept - they could be anywhere - they can also tell you what records there are, and which Morgan of Tredegar House was the one for your family. OH and then let us know on here because we're nose... interested

Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Will Maccallum ⌂ @, Sunday, May 14, 2006, 06:38 (6646 days ago) @ biddy

Thanks for your posting Biddy;

Yes, I would very much appreciate anything you can do to help. Any James Probert with a daughter Ann in the area at that time is a promising lead!

Regards, Will

Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Roger Griffiths @, Saturday, May 13, 2006, 06:16 (6647 days ago) @ Will MacCallum

Redbrook was long associated with Parish of Newland. Residents were likely to use All Saints, Newland for baptisms, marriages and burials. It's only just up the road. However, Bream, Coleford(?) and Clearwell Chapel were Chapels of Ease to Newland and should not be overlooked.



Ann Probert of Monmouth, England

by Mike John ⌂ @, Newport Gwent, Friday, May 19, 2006, 15:55 (6640 days ago) @ Will MacCallum


Probert is a common Welsh/England border surname, more common in Herefordshire
than Monmouthshire. Although derivitive of ap Robert meaning in Welsh son of Robert.

I have Probert's in my family who lived around the Monmouth area. I have no James or Ann, but mine were farmers too, so there could be a family connection.

Here are the first few generations of the family I am researching. I have never the birth place of Philip born circa 1758.

A James Probert married Esther Howells at Llantilio Crossenny 11.6.1815 which is not far from Monmouth and again close to the Herefordshire border. I know this family they lived at Llanvetherine and James is a farmer. They appear on the 1851 census at that parish where James is a shopkeeper.

Mike John

Descendants of Philip Probert

1 Philip Probert b: 1758 Farmer
. +Jane Blunt b: 1773 Dingestow, Mon. m: 22.05.1798 Cwmcarvan, Mon. d: 22.04.1810 Llandogo, Mon.
. 2 William Probert b: 1799 LLandogo, Mon. d: 12.06.1867 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... +Ann Pritchard b: 1808 m: 14.09.1826 Mitchel Troy, Mon. d: 01.05.1838 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... 3 Mary Ann Probert b: 1829 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
......... +George Joyner b: 1815 Bere Regis , Dorset. m: 23.05.1861 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... 3 John Probert b: 1831 Mitchel Troy, Mon. d: 07.12.1891 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... 3 Thomas Probert b: 1832 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... 3 [2] Jane Probert b: 1835 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
......... +[1] Alfred Probert b: 1841 Cwmcarvan, Mon. m: 1865 Farmer
..... 3 Sarah Probert b: 1838 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
......... +George Hawkins b: 1838 Dixton, Mon. m: Abt. 1860
. 2 Philip Probert b: 1801 Llandogo, Mon. d: 14.11.1862 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... +Anne Gwynn b: 1802 Mitchel Troy, Mon. m: 16.05.1831 St James, Bristol. d: 10.11.1885 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... 3 Amos Probert b: 1831 Mitchel Troy, Mon. d: 02.01.1919 Cwmcarvan, Mon Farmer
......... +Eliza Richards b: 1833 Penalt, Mon. m: 08.03.1859 Penalt, Mon.
..... *2nd Wife of Amos Probert:
......... +Jessie Lillian Parry b: 1865 Tintern, Mon. m: 09.05.1887 Monmouth Weslyan Chapel.
..... 3 Ann Probert b: 1834 Mitchel Troy, Mon.
..... 3 Herbert Probert b: 1838 Cwmcarvan, Mon. Farmer
......... +Ann Roberts b: 1832 Penalt, Mon. m: 1866
..... 3 [1] Alfred Probert b: 1841 Cwmcarvan, Mon. Farmer
......... +[2] Jane Probert b: 1835 Mitchel Troy, Mon. m: 1865
..... 3 Jane Probert b: 1844 Cwmcarvan, Mon.
. 2 Jane Probert b: 1805 Llandogo, Mon. d: 1888
..... +Charles Mabbott b: 15.01.1804 Almondsbury Glos. m: 21.11.1825 Llandogo, Mon.
..... 3 Jane Mabbott b: 1831 Northwick, Glos.
..... 3 Sarah Mabbott b: 1834 Northwick, Gloucestershire
..... 3 Charles Mabbott b: 1836 Newport, Mon. d: Aft. 1903 Newlyn. Captained a three masted schooner "Oceana".
......... +Elizabeth Steer b: 1836 Falmouth, Cornwall. m: 15.12.1856 Madron, Cornwall. d: 25.11.1900
..... 3 William Enos Mabbott b: 03.1839 Newport Mon.
..... 3 Eliza Anne Mabbott b: Abt. 1842 Newport Mon.
..... 3 John Mabbott b: 1844 Newport Mon.
. 2 John Probert b: 1807 Llandogo, Mon. d: 24.03.1808 Llandogo, Mon.
. 2 Thomas Probert b: 1809 Llandogo, Mon. d: 11.02.1836 Llandogo, Mon.
*2nd Wife of Philip Probert:
. +Anne Lewis b: 1756 Llandogo, Mon. m: 11.06.1811 Llandogo, Mon. d: 1814 Llandogo, Mon.
*3rd Wife of Philip Probert:
. +Elizabeth King m: 30.10.1816 Trellech, Mon. Widow

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