BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH (General)

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Monday, February 12, 2018, 21:44 (2236 days ago)

I am trying to locate any information available on Boar Castle, which appears in searches relating to one of my Ancestors George Toomey (baptised in Churcham in 1819). It may be just on the Western border of the FOD.
In 1881 Census, George was recorded as living at Crockers Ash Hamlet, Whitchurch.
Boar Castle appears on same page between entries for Portland House (Whitchurch) and Tuck Mill (just outside Marstow)
Looking at Historical maps of the time, there don't appear to be many places which could apply.
I am intrigued. Can anyone shed some light?

Thank you

Sid Toomey

BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Monday, February 19, 2018, 22:53 (2229 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

I wonder if the reference has something to do with the Little Doward Hill Fort shown on this map,

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102342785

Just south-east of the camp is a so-called Arthur’s Cave. This article mentions a possible connexion between Arthur and Arth (bear).

http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artcit/caerdoward.htm

It's not much but it's the best I can find.

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 00:39 (2229 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Could it be a pub ?

Perhaps more likely a case of census official writing down what he thought he heard from a local, despite dialect etc ?.

I see you're not the only person to ask this question ?
https://www.curiousfox.com/uk/mbprof2.lasso?eid=70037&-nothing

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Having given-up with the old maps, have been searching the web for various alternative spellings eg Bore castle, Bocastle, Boscastle etc etc.


Could this be a clue ?

"Skenfrith Castle
At the end of the 12th century, Skenfrith was rebuilt in stone. In 1201, King John gave the castle to a powerful royal official, Hubert de Burgh. During the course of the next few decades, it passed back and forth between several owners, including Hubert, the rival de Braose family, and the Crown. Hubert levelled the old castle and built a new rectangular fortification with round towers and a circular keep."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skenfrith_Castle

It's a few miles west of Whitchurch so maybe too far off the census route, but I wonder if the Hubert de Burgh name is relevant here, I guess he had influence all across the area, which almost leads me back to a pub name ?.

--------------------

Burgh is also an ancient word for a town's administrative area, especially in Scotland or the north, hence Edinburgh, Jedburgh etc, more recently "Borough" as in Windsor being a Royal Borough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgh

Alternatively, and perhaps even more likely, I found an English Heritage document about the old City Walls of Hereford "incorporating the ramparts of the Saxon burgh"... This led me to this webpage about

"burh (Old English pronunciation: [ˈburx]) or burg was an Old English fortification or fortified settlement."
This detailed page goes onto discuss earthworks, ditches and so on, and the derivation of the modern word "bury".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burh

So I wonder if Boar Castle was actually Burr, and was maybe thought to be an old earthwork ?, but the census official didn't know the word's meaning so wrote down boar ?. I know nowt abt the history of the Little Doward hillfort, except that it's Iron Age, so more earthworks seem possible in the surrounding area.

Finally, the old maps show the lane connecting Portland House Whitchurch and Tuck Mill Marstow has just one marked address, Hill Farm, could that have been known as Burr Castle at one time ? I don't know the area, but presumably it's on a hill, there's also a Tump Cottage nearby, are these addresses marked as-such on the Census ?.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101570457

Nice one Sid !

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 00:40 (2228 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you to Mike and Jefff for your replies.
I have seen the Curious Fox enquiry from 2006 regarding Boar Castle and it is this enquiry which helped intrigue me.
Unfortunately, i don't think they advance my search but i have some more information to share.
I studied a couple of previous and subsequent Census returns and came up with the following information.

In 1871 Joseph Taylor and his wife also lived at Boars Castle. His occupation was given as "Farm Bailey" with his wife being "Bailey Wife" One definition of a "Bailey" is " an open area inside a Castle complex that contained the domestic and other necessary buildings of castle life".

In 1891 Census, Thomas Rudge lived at " Bucks Castle Cottage" located in the same vicinity, based on common entries before and after.

Using this 1891 Census, following the sequence of entries i hopefully followed the Census taker and have tentatively placed the site to the East of Lewiston Mill and South of Greenway Farm. This is shown on an 1887 map. This area also contains a notation "Tessellated Pavement found" which another old map shows as Roman Ruins. This area is just West of Village of Whitworth.

This is doing my head in, although in an enjoyable way.

I have marked up a map which i could send to you if i knew how. There appears to be a facility to attach an image beside this message but how to do it is beyond me.

Thank you

Sid Toomey

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 01:31 (2228 days ago) @ sidtoomey01


In 1871 Joseph Taylor and his wife also lived at Boars Castle. His occupation was given as "Farm Bailey" with his wife being "Bailey Wife" One definition of a "Bailey" is " an open area inside a Castle complex that contained the domestic and other necessary buildings of castle life".

Hi Sid,
thanks for that, it's very late here so one quick thought. I don't have access to actual census images at the mo so am reliant on transcripts which are often wrong. I don't know your situation in this respect.
Wrt the 1871 entries, are you certain they don't actually read "Farm Bailiff" - a not unusual entry in agricultural areas ?

Speak again soon, Jeff

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 06:27 (2227 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jefff

I looked again and it is definitely recorded as "Bailey"

and the search continues.......

Sid Toomey

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by abird @, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 12:20 (2227 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

This link should show you an 1887 map with Lewstone Mill & Greenway Farm near the centre.

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 20:17 (2227 days ago) @ abird

Thank you for your reply.
Unfortunately i don't think the link came through on to the post.

Sid Toomey

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 20:31 (2227 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Hi Sid,

Hover over the word "link". It's been embedded there.

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 22:40 (2227 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

There is yet another reference to Boar Castle in 1841. Track it via William SPENCER, 30, Ag Lab, not born in county.

BOAR CASTLE ?, Llangarron area.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, February 22, 2018, 02:35 (2227 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

There is yet another reference to Boar Castle in 1841. Track it via William SPENCER, 30, Ag Lab, not born in county.

Well spotted Mike ! AND it's within the Parish of Llangarron, too, which fits.
Still cannot find it on any maps tho...


Thanks Sid for checking the transcript re "Farm Bailey" - hope you can understand why I thought it might have been "bailiff", ah well...

???

BOAR CASTLE ?, Llangarron area.

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Thursday, February 22, 2018, 20:05 (2226 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you . I have seen the entry in the 1841 Census. I am going to use this Census with an earlier map from the Ordnance Surveys First Edition to see it anything comes up.
I am also trying to locate Trade Directories from a date close to the Census dates to see if something jumps out at me.
What usually happens is that i see something unrelated which is interesting and i get side tracked.

Sid Toomey

BOAR CASTLE ?, Llangarron area.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, February 23, 2018, 00:59 (2226 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Hi Sid,
I suspect you've already found (by internet search) that there's a Boar's Hill at St Devereux, which unfortunately is a good few miles NNW of our search area. It's also mentioned in the 1856 Herefordshire Post Office Directory, but I'm unsure how relevant this is, or not.
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p16445coll4/id/278559/...
Also in the 1858 on this site, and the 1913 Kellys on this site, but cannot not anywhere else.
Sorry bout that,
J

PS another possible route might be to search the old newspapers on the BNA site ?

BOAR CASTLE ?, Llangarron area.

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Tuesday, March 13, 2018, 11:16 (2207 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

A further development in my search for "Boars Castle".
William Spencer and family gave this as their address in the Census returns of 1841/51/61/71.
A search of the FOD Baptism transcripts shows that during this period some of his children were Baptised at Marstow with their place of living recorded as "Newcourt Cottage" on "Extra Parochial land".
This must be another name for "Boars Castle"
Can anyone shed more light on this cottage ?
There is a farm in the vicinity called "New Court Farm".
However i do not think the cottage was part of the farm as the farm was usually listed on a different Census Return to Boars Castle.

Sid Toomey

BOAR CASTLE ?, Llangarron area.

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Tuesday, March 13, 2018, 15:45 (2207 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

In the 1861 and 1871 census, Boars Castle seems to include more than one family so maybe it's not a building but a hamlet and the cottage was one of two or three.

BOAR CASTLE ?, Llangarron area.

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 04:57 (2207 days ago) @ probinson

Thanks Peter

It does appear to be more than one building although in 1841 and 1851 Census only one family was living there
In 1861 , two families
In 1871, three families.
From 1841 to 1871 William Spencer and family were constant.
In 1881, Thomas Rudge and his son Elijah lived there. one house
In 1891, Thomas Rudge and son were living in Bucks Castle Cottage, one house although using entries before and after, it appears to be the same Boars Castle.
In 1901, Buck Castle was uninhabited.
Being also called Newcourt cottage and on Extra Parochial land makes it
Very challenging.

BURR "CASTLE" ?, WHITCHURCH

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Thursday, February 22, 2018, 20:07 (2226 days ago) @ abird

Thank you for the link.

This map is the one i have been using in my search.

Sid Toomey

BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Tuesday, March 27, 2018, 21:13 (2193 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

I am trying to locate online detailed boundary maps which might have been used in the Census gathering.
Specifically the boundaries between Llangarron, Whitchurch and Marstow.
In the 1881 Census involving Llangarron, ten houses (including Boars Castle) were recorded in the Enumerators book for Llangarron but notations on the pages record them being transferred to Whitchurch.
In the 1891 Census they remained part of Whitchurch.
The relevant pages appear to indicate a counter clockwise direction taken by the Enumerator.
Can anyone steer me in the right direction.
Thanks in anticipation

BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH

by shepway @, Wednesday, March 28, 2018, 10:24 (2192 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

The best I can offer is the website "A Church near You"
This site gives you the current boundary for each Ecclesiastical Parish which you will find is quoted on the Census.
Mike

BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Wednesday, March 28, 2018, 15:51 (2192 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Not sure if this helps...

http://maps.familysearch.org

BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Saturday, March 31, 2018, 06:16 (2190 days ago) @ probinson

Thank you both for those suggestions.
The LDS one in particular looks promising. I just have to learn how to use it effectively.

BOAR CASTLE, WHITCHURCH

by cspsrs @, Wednesday, May 08, 2019, 20:44 (1786 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Hi I know I'm a year late to the conversation, but I'm curious about Boar Castle too.
It appears as a residence for William Baggs, husbandman, and his wife Hannah, on the baptism record of his son, Stephen, in Marstow in 1827. Later in census returns, Stephen's birthplace is noted as Whitchurch.
Although I have no answers as to the exact location, I thought you'd like to know of another family living there as early as the 1820's.
I hope you pick this up.
Christina

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