1882 Eva Emily Manns (General)

by Ladies, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 14:57 (376 days ago)

The above young lady is the daughter of 1834 Samuel Manns & Mary Ann Stevens

I have found records for her upto the 1901 Census where she is working as a Barmaid/Servant in Banbury in Oxfordshire (if i have got the correct lady??)

After that, cant find anything else.

Would like to know where she was in 1911, if she married and to whom and if she had any children and her death date.

I am hoping all you super sleuths on here will be able to find me the answers.

Keeping fingers crossed and thank you

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 15:55 (376 days ago) @ Ladies

Just to confirm, GlosBMD has this birth record which no doubt you already have;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
MANNS Eva Emily STEPHENS 1882 Gloucester Gloucester, Redmarley 15 372
MANNS Eva Emily FROWEN 1882 Gloucester Gloucester, Redmarley 15 372

This site has her Baptism PR;

Record_ID: 150334
Entry_Number: 139
Year: 1883
Month: Mar
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: MANNS
Child_Forenames: Eva Emily
Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Mothers_Forenames: Mary Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Dymock
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: DOB 08/12/1882
Notes:
Register_Reference: P125 IN 1/25
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Dymock
Soundex: M520

Early days but can't see any signs of a marriage.

---

Familysearch has the following census records, ie what you prob already have and NOT what you're looking for, sorry ...


1891 Stratton Road, Barton St Mary. Gloucester, Glos
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Kendall Head M 58 Corn Merchants Foreman. England
Eleanor Kendall Wife F 27 Gloucestershire, England
John Manns Boarder M 18 Corn Porter. Gloucestershire, England
Eva E Manns Boarder F 8 Gloucestershire, England

Presume John is her older brother ?
Do you know why young Eva's not still with her parents ?
Are the Kendalls related ?


1901 Market Place, Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Albert A Thornitt Head M 47 WINE & SPIRIT MERCHANT. Sutton Under Brailes, Warwickshire
Annie M J Thornitt Wife F 40 Leamington, Warwickshire
Frederic W Thornitt Son M 13 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Ernest A Thornitt Son M 11 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Arthur S Thornitt Son M 8 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Dorothy Thornitt Daughter F 6 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Marjory A Thornitt Daughter F 4 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Eva Manns Servant F 19 Barmaid. Kemplis, Gloucestershire
Eliz A Humphreys Servant F 22 Dom servant. Chacombe, Oxfordshire
Lilly Upton Servant F 14 Great Bourton, Oxfordshire

Does indeed look like our Eva.
Got to wonder where her wanderlust has come from ?

I'd love to know exactly where this is, my wife's from Banbury so I have a reasonable knowledge of the town's pubs and hotels...

Again, FamilySearch is giving no clues as to the 1911 Census, or Eva's later records.

BUT again must wonder if her name at some point may be getting mixed-up with the similar MANN surname ?

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 16:16 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you for replying.

I agree with all your findings.

Her mothers maiden name was Frowein. She married somebody called JOhn Stephens who passed away at a later date and she went on to marry SAmuel Manns, all as far as i can understand anyway.

Another of my brick wall mysteries. grrr

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 16:18 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

I have it that John Manns is her elder brother too.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 16:21 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

The Kendall connection is, i beleive, that her sister Eleanor married someone called Kendall. I will have to go back over my research

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 16:37 (376 days ago) @ Ladies

Thanks for confirming that, was hoping it would still be family for young Eva's benefit.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Sunday, November 25, 2018, 14:36 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

I did wonder if Eva may have married a Kendall 'son' if there were any?? I have not got as far as looking at the Kendalls.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, November 25, 2018, 16:25 (375 days ago) @ Ladies

As we have Eva Emily MANNS exact birth date i.e. 8 December 1882 from her baptisms records - have had a quick look for an Eva or Emily (without a surname) born 8 December 1882 - there are a number - which need eliminating - but so far nothing stands out!

for example: at 21 Rogers Road, Dagenham Essex

Emily E KIBBLEWHITE - Widow birth date 8 December 1882 : Unpaid Domestic Duties


---

The Emily E MANNS mentioned is previous reply - is possibly on the 1939 Register in Gloucestershire - birth date: 28 June 1881 - and a Widow, living in a Caravan in Lower Waltham Lane, Gloucester with Frank STEPHENS

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Sunday, November 25, 2018, 20:12 (375 days ago) @ Ladies

This might be worth following up further. At present I cannot trace the marriage to confirm or deny if it’s relevant.

GR 1911 Census, 33, Carisbrooke Rd, Newport, Mon.

George William BULL, Head, 46, Married, Commercial Traveller Pipes, b. Wiltshire
Eva, Wife, 29, Married, Dymock, Gloucester [Transcribed by GR as Dynoch]
Walter HALL, Nephew, 14, Single, Errand Boy, London, Battersea

9 years married, no children, 6 rooms in the house.

The schedule was filled in by Eva and the entry for George is crossed out entirely. She has also crossed out “Wife” and substituted “Head”. Perhaps this was because George was away following his calling at the time.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, November 25, 2018, 21:47 (375 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Walter Richard HALL was christened at Battersea: parents: Edwin Henry HALL and Fanny Franklin HALL (GRO Index, maiden name BULL) his date of birth was 24 March 1897.


Fanny Franklin BULL was christened at Chippenham, Wiltshire, 17 September 1876 (born 13 September 1872) - father: George William BULL.

George William BULL (Fanny's brother) also christened at Chippenham christened 4 January 1863

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Monday, November 26, 2018, 22:57 (374 days ago) @ Ladies

Ancestry 1939 Register

25 Milford Street, Bristol

BULL, William G, born 21 Sept 1861, Antique traveller unemployed.
BULL, Eva E, born 26 Nov 1882, Unpaid domestic duties.

So, unfortunately, the birth date does not quite match the one given on this site or on the Ancestry image. However, I have not spotted another Eva E MANNS baptised at Dymock close to that date.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 02:37 (374 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Hi Mike,
not sure don't think this record has already been mentioned ?

FreeBMD;

Deaths Mar 1943 (>99%)
Bull Eva E 58 F.of Dean 6a 396

So born abt 1885.

And from this site's PRs;

Record_ID: 78822
Entry_Number: 3800
Year: 1943
Month: Jan
Day: 28
Surname: BULL
Forenames: Eva Emily
Residence: Wife of William George Bull
Age_at_death: 58
Officiating_Minister: Rev[eren]d L V Wraith
Event: Interment
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (1) Chapel House Mile End (2) Section B Adult Gr[ave] (3) H 13 (4) Consecrated (5)
Notes:
Register_Reference: DA25 / 204 / 30
Page_No: 89
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Cemetery
Soundex: B400

Oddly I cannot find a death record for our William George Bull anywhere.

Sadly I cannot find a likely marriage for them either, or a definite entry for William in the 1901 Census.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 13:12 (374 days ago) @ Jefff

this does look very promising.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 13:48 (374 days ago) @ Ladies

Back to the 1911 census with Walter HALL living with Eva BULL and just to recap - from his baptism, date of his birth, 24 March 1897

On Ancestry -

UK, Incoming Passenger Lists 1879-1960

Walter Richard HALL - : birth 24 March 1897 (occupation: Farmer) On Holiday from New Zealand
Arrival age: 62
Port of Departure, Wellington, New Zealand

along with his wife Gertrude Hannah HALL - date of birth: 9 February 1895

Port of Arrival, Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Wellington, Sydney; Melbourne; Fremantle; Cape Town and Las Palmas

Ship Name: Dominion Monarch
Shipping Line, Shaw, Savill and Albion


address given in UK, c/o 1 Woodville Gardens, Ealing, London W5

His marriage: on Family Search


Walter Richard HALL married Gertrude Hannah HILL - 24 June 1917, Aberystruth, Monmouthshire Wales

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 14:02 (374 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

6 August 1917 at Aberystruth

Gertrude Hannah HILL, residence: 2 Park View, Blaina, Spinster aged 22
father: Thomas Henry HILL, Telegraph Inspector

Walter Richard HALL, residence: 2 Park View, Blaina, Batchelor aged 21
father: Edward HALL, decorator

witnesses: John TUCKER and Mary Lizzie TUCKER

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, November 24, 2018, 16:22 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

Re Thornitt, wine merchant publican of Banbury,

a quick search finds;

"Mr. A. A. Thornitt', Wine and Spirit Stores, 27 High Street, Banbury"
http://www.richardfordmanuscripts.co.uk/catalogue/14850

And
"In 1918 Mr. Thornitt reported to the committee that fred Harris of Drayton was employed by him to wash bottles at the Vine. He noticed a bag inside a bucket and found it contained two bottles of stout and half a pint of port. Watched by himself and his son-in-law, Mr. Ray Kilby, Harris was seen to take the bag and was apprehended by the Plough Yard. He was prosecuted and convicted."
https://www.banburymuseum.org/Cake%20and%20Cockhorse/VOL_11/V11NO03.pdf

Don't recall a pub in Banbury called the Vine, but the Market Square had several back when it was an important market town, the Vine Hotel is still there albeit not in business of course, part of the Corn Exchange building.
https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/lifestyle/nostalgia/look-back-with-little-an-enterpri...

https://pubshistory.com/Oxfordshire/Banbury/VineHotel.shtml

Not sure why but always enjoy researching pubs, thanks for the interesting browse.

-----------------

Thought worth checking for any sign of Eva at the Vine in the next census ?

1911 Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Albert Adkins Thornitt Head M 59 WINE MERCHANT HOTEL KEEPER. Sutton Under Brailes, Warwickshire
Annie Mary Jane Thornitt Wife F 51 Leamington, Warwickshire
Frederick William Thornitt Son M 23 Clerk. Banbury, Oxfordshire
Dorothy Thornitt Daughter F 16 At school. Banbury, Oxfordshire
Marjorie Annie Thornitt Daughter F 14 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Louisa Jane Johns Barmaid F 26 Single. Barmaid. Bristol, Gloucestershire
Lily Upton Servant F 24 Single. Dom servant. Great Bourton, Oxfordshire

So Lily's still there but not our Eva...

Searching again for Eva I see our search not helped by there being a few Manns caled Emily or Eva born in the area around the same time, but given the fact this record is unusual in having two forenames not just one, and as this lady was born abt 1880, I can't help but wonder if this records is our Eva ?


Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1950 (>99%)
Manns Emily E 70 F.of Dean 7b 357

Cannot find a burial PR within this FoD FH site, or any more details in GlosBMD.
Similarly altho there are a few Mann/Manns burials recorded at the FoD Council Cemetaries I cannot find this one.
http://apps.fdean.gov.uk/OnlineCemeteries_Live/

There were of course some married ladies of this name when they died, so ??

That said the surname MANN is far more numerous in the records, with dozens of Emily Elizabeth MANN around the country, including two born abt 1880 in Gloucesterhire in the 1901 & 1911 Census records but later records indicate they are someone else. The Mann and Manns surname must have occasionally been mixed-up in the records.

???

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Sunday, November 25, 2018, 14:28 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you for looking.

It had crossed my mind that she could be calling herself Emily in later records but there are so many, it is impossible to confirm. I have found many ancestors who used their second names on some records and first name on others and even changed their name completely. Very strange!

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, November 26, 2018, 00:01 (375 days ago) @ Ladies

Thank you for looking.

You're welcome.

It's not "impossible" to confirm, but yes it would indeed be very time-consuming to follow-up all the alternative "maybes", so as to be able to rule them out, or not, of the hunt.

Just had another thought, seeing as she was working with the Thornitt family at their Banbury pub when a young lady, called she have married into that family ?.

In that basis can find this record in FreeBMD, while searching ALL the uk, which does seem a tantalisingly good fit in many ways (again !).

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1966 (>99%)
THORNITT EVA M 82 OXFORD 6B 1326

So born abt 1884
???

Now to find this lady's husband etc ??


Trying FreeBMD again, thankfully Thormitt's an unusual name, we find;

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1922 (>99%)
THORNITT Albert E Timson Mt. Bosworth 7a 177
Timson Eva M Thornitt Mt. Bosworth 7a 177

(Market Bosworth and it is in the county of Leicestershire)

Not looking so good...

No, sadly not this time, ah well.

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
Timson Eva Mary Mt.Bosworth 7a 87


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Do you have access to the 1939 Register, I think that's the next place to look next, using all possible options of surname we can think of in case our Eva had married by 1939 ??

Also searching the old newspapers using the BNA site ?.

1882 Eva Emily Manns

by Ladies, Sunday, November 25, 2018, 14:32 (376 days ago) @ Jefff

Its a possibility that this is our Eva which would explain why there is no marriage record but just cant be sure. So frustrating!

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