Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Thomas Hawkins 1827 Joyford

Thomas Hawkins 1827 Joyford (reply)

joyford — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:58:19 +0000

Hi
Can anyone think of a reason why Mahala SMITH was living With Sarah SMITH in the 41 census and in the 51 one she is still with Sarah and called"daughter", yet the parish records show Richard and Mary SMITH as her parents. Could it be simply a mistake in transcription?Richard is shown with Mary in both censuses(Hillersland) and Sarah is shown as "head"(Scowles) Are these two places close to each other?
Apolgies for all the questions
Sylvia

I've come to this family via my great grandfather Benjamin Smith b 1876 Joyford, son of Benjamin Smith and Ruth Brown mar 1875. Benjamin snr was the son of Edward Smith and Amelia Gwilliam mar 1843; Edward was son of Richard Smith and Sarah Wareham mar 1820. Edward's English Bicknor bapt states his parents were Richard, Keeper of the Forest of Dean, and Sarah, of extraparochial lands adjoining the parish of English Bicknor. Their subsequent children were bapt in Staunton and Richard is described as a woodman of Malescot Lodge for Richard, William, Thomas, James and Elias. Mahala Smith appears on the 1841 census with this family although she is recorded bapt as a daughter of Richard and Sarah.
When Richard married Sarah in 1820 he was a widower and I think a burial of Richard Smith, aged 63 years, of Malescot Lodge, on the 7th June 1837
is him? Am I on the right track? Any feedback would be appreciated.
Regards, Joyford

Thomas Hawkins 1827 Joyford (reply)

sylviamorgan — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:32:03 +0000

Hi
Can anyone think of a reason why Mahala SMITH was living With Sarah SMITH in the 41 census and in the 51 one she is still with Sarah and called"daughter", yet the parish records show Richard and Mary SMITH as her parents. Could it be simply a mistake in transcription?Richard is shown with Mary in both censuses(Hillersland) and Sarah is shown as "head"(Scowles) Are these two places close to each other?
Apolgies for all the questions
Sylvia

Thomas Hawkins 1827 Joyford (reply)

sylviamorgan — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:49:03 +0000

Hi
Thank you slowhands for sending me all that info. You `ve certainly given me lots to think about. i`ve looked at all the Richard SMITH marriages and concluded that 2 of them may be of useIn 1820 he marries a Sarah WAREHAM and is already a widower then Then in 1852 a Richard marries Mary Ann SMITH although I dont think he`s entered as a widower in that marriage. I couldnt find any bride with surname JONES(for Henry) but perhaps that hasn`t been transcribed, yet.There seems to be Richards that were woodmen and others that were colliers. I had believed that the one I`m looking for was a collier. Yet interestingly enough on Henry`s marriage certificate Henry was entered as a "woodman" and richard as a collier whereas Henry had formerly been recorded as a collier Was a mistake made when the certificate was filled in-a possibility?
A tangled -web
thank you
Sylvia

Thomas Hawkins 1827 Joyford (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:47:19 +0000

Year 1827
Month Sep
Day 6

Parents Surname HAWKINS
Child Forename(s) Thomas
Father's Forename(s) John
Mother's Forename(s) Sarah
Mother's Surname
Place of Residence Joyford
Occupation Collier
Officiating Minister T.R. Garnsey
Event type Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P82 IN 1/1
Page No 52
Parish/Chapel Christchurch

1841 Joyford
John Hawkins abt 1786 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Sarah Hawkins abt 1786 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Eliza Hawkins abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Sarah Hawkins abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Thomas Hawkins abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire

1851 Joyford
John Hawkins abt 1784 Nk, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Eliza Hawkins abt 1827 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Sarah Hawkins abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Thomas Hawkins abt 1830 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

Mahalath SMITH 1834 (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:16:30 +0000

In 1861 Richard describes himself as Woodman, it may be a transcription error to workman, it may not :-)

"we'll" have to track down Richard's marriage(s) to work this out, my guess based on the gap in ages of the children in 1841 Richard may have re-married at least twice....

??
Year 1830
Month Feb
Day 22

Surname SMITH
Forename(s) Mary
Place of Residence Hiller's Land
Age at death 30
Officiating Minister T.R. Garnsey
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P82 IN 1/1
Page No 13
Parish/Chapel Christchurch
Soundex S530

Year 1838
Month Apr
Day 24

Groom Surname SMITH
Groom Forename(s) Richard
Groom Age at Marriage of f
Groom condition Widower
Groom Rank or Profession Lodge man
Groom Residence Hillers Land
Groom Father's Surname SMITH
Groom Father's Forename(s) Edward
Groom Father's Rank or Profession Lodge man

Bride Surname THOMAS
Bride Forename(s) Mary
Bride Age at Marriage of f
Bride Condition Spinster
Bride Rank or Profession [not stated]
Bride Residence The Sterts
Bride Father's Surname THOMAS
Bride Father's Forename(s) John
Bride Father's Rank or Profession Shoemaker
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of banns 1838 Apr 1 8 15
Signature or Mark Both sign
Witness 1 James Gwilliam
Witness 2 Elizabeth Jones
Other witnesses
Officiating Minister Edward Feild [sic] Rector
Event type Marriage
Memoranda
Transcriber's Notes Banns are in P138 IN 1/10 page 45. This record also appears in P138 IN 1/8 page 68.
Register Reference P138 IN 1/12
Page No 3
Parish/Chapel English Bicknor

Year 1852
Month Aug
Day 5

Groom Surname SMITH
Groom Forename(s) Richard
Groom Age at Marriage full
Groom condition Widower
Groom Rank or Profession Collier
Groom Residence West Dean
Groom Father's Surname Smith
Groom Father's Forename(s) Richard
Groom Father's Rank or Profession Collier

Bride Surname SMITH
Bride Forename(s) Mary Ann
Bride Age at Marriage full
Bride Condition Spinster
Bride Rank or Profession [not stated]
Bride Residence West Dean
Bride Father's Surname Smith
Bride Father's Forename(s) John
Bride Father's Rank or Profession Collier
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of banns
Signature or Mark He marks she signs
Witness 1 Thomas Teague
Witness 2 Mark of Eliza Smith
Other witnesses None
Officiating Minister W. H. Taylor Incumbent
Event type Marriage
Memoranda -
Transcriber's Notes -
Register Reference PFC82 IN 1/7
Page No 44
Parish/Chapel Christchurch

Mahalath SMITH 1834 Scowles/ West Dean (reply)

sylviamorgan — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 23:05:30 +0000

Hi
I forgot to mention in my previous message that I`d found the parish record for Mahala`s marriage to Thomas HAWKINS and Richard SMITH was named as the bride`s father but described as "a workman"Would a keeper (of the woods,presumably)be happy with being called "a workman"
Sylvia

Mahalath SMITH 1834 Scowles/ West Dean (reply)

sylviamorgan — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:49:41 +0000

Hi
Thank you Bertha and slowhands for your help, but its left me puzzled(again) as there seems to be 2 Richards involved. One,with wife Mary was named as Mahala`s father on the parish record yet, in the census entries Mahala seems to be part of a household with a Sara as head living at Scowles while Richard is at Hillersland. Am I getting it wrong (again) in so thinking?
Thanks
Sylvia

Mahalath SMITH 1834 Hillersland (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:54:59 +0000

1841 Hillersland Lodge
Richard Smith abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire
Mary Smith abt 1816 Bicknor English Gloucestershire
Caroline Smith abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire
Henry Smith abt 1841 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire
Richard Smith abt 1830 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire
Edward Smith abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Smith abt 1776 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire

1841 Scowles
Sarah Smith abt 1801 Newland Gloucestershire
Clia Smith abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire
Edwin Smith abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire
James Smith abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire
Mahala Smith abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire
Thomas Smith abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire
William Smith abt 1825 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire

1851 Redihorne
Richard Smith abt 1800 N Head West Dean
Mary A Smith abt 1815 Bristol Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Caraline Smith abt 1839 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Charles Smith abt 1847 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Ellin Smith abt 1847 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Faney Smith abt 1845 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Henry Smith abt 1841 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Jane Smith abt 1849 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Mary A Smith abt 1843 Reddinghorne, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire

1851 Joyford Hill next door to Charles Hawkins + family
Sarah Smith abt 1814 Corscomb, Devon, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elias Smith abt 1832 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
James Smith abt 1829 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Mahalah Smith abt 1834 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Richard Smith abt 1824 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
William Smith abt 1826 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

Year 1853
Month Feb
Day 6

Groom Surname HAWKINS
Groom Forename(s) Thomas
Groom Age at Marriage 24
Groom condition Bachelor
Groom Rank or Profession Collier
Groom Residence Nail Bridge
Groom Father's Surname Hawkins
Groom Father's Forename(s) John
Groom Father's Rank or Profession Collier

Bride Surname SMITH
Bride Forename(s) Mahalath
Bride Age at Marriage 18
Bride Condition Spinster
Bride Rank or Profession
Bride Residence Blakeney Hill
Bride Father's Surname Smith
Bride Father's Forename(s) Richard
Bride Father's Rank or Profession Work Man

Licence or Banns Banns
Date of banns
Signature or Mark He Mark She Signs
Witness 1 Philip Jordan
Witness 2 Ann London
Other witnesses
Officiating Minister G. Fruck
Event type Marriage
Memoranda
Transcriber's Notes
Register Reference P109 IN 1/6
Page No 62
Parish/Chapel Drybrook

1861 nr Braceland
Richard Smith abt 1800 Newton, Monmouthshire, Wales Head English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Mary Smith abt 1812 Bristol Wife English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Agnes Smith abt 1853 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Annie Smith abt 1856 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Charles Smith abt 1851 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Son English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Ellen Smith abt 1847 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Fanny Smith abt 1845 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Harriet Smith abt 1859 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Daughter English Bicknor Gloucestershire
Henry Smith abt 1841 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Son English Bicknor Gloucestershire

and to consider ?
marriage index entry

Name: Mahalath Hawkins
Year of Registration: 1863
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 56

Mahalath SMITH (reply)

bertha — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:38:03 +0000

Baptism found in the Parish Records Section of the Members Area

record_id 114891
Entry Number 239
Year 1834
Month May
Day 11
Parents Surname SMITH
Child Forename(s) Mahala
Father's Forename(s) Richard
Mother's Forename(s) Mary
Mother's Surname
Place of Residence Hiller's Land
Occupation Keeper
Officiating Minister T.R. Garnsey
Event type Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference 8212
Page No 30
Parish/Chapel Christchurch
Soundex S530

Mahalath SMITH

sylviamorgan — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:41:48 +0000

Hi
Does anyone know more about a Mahalath SMITH(father Richard SMITH) other than she married Thomas HAWKINS
Sylvia