Forest of Dean FHT Forum - The Mystery of Mr Cinderey

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

Robert Williams — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:51:42 +0000

I understand that the Mr Cinderey (however spelled) the quarry owner who donated the stone, was also a church warden, which seems reasonable. If this is correct, his full name is likely to appear in parish council or whatever church records were maintained at the time. I understand that these records are at the Gloucester Records Office. Has anyone checked these?

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

hullforester — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:43:24 +0000

Don the Lydia Conderey is George and Abiah's daugther. Thanks for That!

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

hullforester — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:55:17 +0000

I searched another website that has copies of parish records. This George's family came from Kent.But i think we are looking for another "Forest Cinderey" as George Cinderey of East Dean's dad, i believed his father was called William but it is likely George we need more christening records before 1813 to see if George had any brothers or sisters to confirm that "George Cindary" is his father.

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

Don Cameron — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:23:40 +0000

Here is a good example of what can be found

Marriages Dec 1887
CONDEREY Lydia Westbury S. 6a 438
JONES George Westbury S. 6a 438

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

Don Cameron — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:18:14 +0000

Further to my last post - there are far too many CINDERY listings on the BMD Index to note here. It might be well to check all possible permutations of this name on the BMD Index and elsewhere.

[Thread locked, please start a new thread with a new subject - admin]

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

Don Cameron — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:04:26 +0000

After looking for the birth of Hilda A. CINDEREY on the BMD Index, I found her recorded with the surname of CINDERLEY - Hilda Abiah, Westbury Sept Q 1895 - 6a, 262. There was also a Caroline CINDERLEY or CINDERBY (sic) married to a John BULLOCK at Westbury June Q 1849 - 11, 663. Also, a marriaged for a Mary CINDERLEY at Lewisham, Greater London/Kent, December Q 1839 - 5, 362; to either James MACKIE (of potential interest to me), or Thomas WELLER or another un-named male.

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

Ann — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:27:58 +0000

Hullforester.

Please can you explain how you came by this information? It seems so different to anything discovered so far.

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

hullforester — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 07:04:22 +0000

Thanks again everyone for the info it looks like the George Cindary who owned the quarry before the Marfells is a Londoner! born in 1755 to a John Sindry and his wife Mary in Stepney, London what do you think of that!

Cinderey, Marfell and Holy Trinity Church 1841 (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:07:26 +0000

Quarryman, which is rather far removed from Quarry Owner

point taken , however I can't recall other quarry workers on that census close by, only miners...perhaps I need to go back and recheck :-)

is a bit of a red herring,

only attempting to illustrate how all these families tend to inter twin :-)

Cinderey, Marfell and Holy Trinity Church 1841 (reply)

jimashton — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 04:56:05 +0000

As my main interest is the Marfell family I would be very interested in any information pertaining to the Marfell Family being owners of the quarry. I do not think that the connection is Edmund Marfell. He is described variously on census data and a number of birth & marriage certificates for his children as Quarryman, which is rather far removed from Quarry Owner. The only variation to this are; the birth of his daughter Leah 1n 1841 where he is a collier. On the marriage certificate for his daughter Belinda in 1870 he is a Farmer and then on the 1871 Census he is a haulier.
The fact that Timothy & Ann Marfell are servants with the Reverand Birkin is a bit of a red herring, they are indeed brother & sister each second cousin to Edmund i.e. not closely related. Timothy went on to marry Ellen Hyett in 1858, they had no children and he was Labourer/Gardener. Ann went on to marry Simeon Brain in 1845, they had 10 children including Elizabeth 1850 who married John Cinderey 20.12.1873, John being the son of George Cinderey & Elizabeth Wilkes i.e. brother of George who married Abia Marfell. Timothy & Ann Marfell were part of a family of 9 children, their brother Cornelius born 1832 was my Great Great Grandfather who married his cousin Mary Ann Marfell in 1853 & was killed in an Iron Mine accident in 1865. I have two newspaper reports for the accident, one of which no doubt typical for the era I find rather quaint :
"Cornelius Marfell killed in iron ore mine accident Wigpool Colliery nr. Mitcheldean 8 May 1865. Left 6 children Thomas, Timothy, Lydia, Rose, Annie,John, John being baby in arms"
Details of funeral in Coleford Times 19.5.1865
"The funeral of the unfortunate man, Cornelius Marfell took place on Friday evening and was conducted in a respectable manner, no less than 88 persons attending dressed in black and the majority wore white gloves and hat bands"

Cinderey, Marfell and Holy Trinity Church 1841 (reply)

Ann — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 04:15:29 +0000

And so the saga continues.Here's some more for the jigsaw.

George Cinderey 01 Sep 1809 appears to be the eldest in the family. There were two sons. The other was Henry 08 Mar 1812. They also had four daughters.

Their father Guy Sindre (yet another spelling) b.o4 July 1784 at Linton, died fairly young on 18 Mar 1828. So George was only nineteen. As George was young maybe he couldn't cope with a business.

Guy's wife Susannah James c.1789, poss. Susannah, born 01 Jan 1789 at Weston under Penyard, then married James Welsh, a widower on 04 Mar 1833 at English Bicknor. The marriage record spells her name as Sinderrey. She lived until Mar 1872.

Thanks once again from Ann Sindrey, to the Parish record transposers for the marriage information.

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

D. M. P. Cameron — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 02:56:02 +0000

I'd like to make my contribution to this discussion on the CINDEREY family. George CINDEREY born about 1869 at Harry Hill, whom I believe is a son of George CINDEREY of East Dean, married Sarah Ann MEEK (December Q 1892 Westbury vol., 6a, page 455). In the 1901 Census this couple are recorded at Morse Lane, Ruardean, Herefordshire. RG 13/2475, folio 131, page 14, schedule 86.

George CINDEREY head of household, married male aged 32, Carpenter, worker, born Harry Hill, Gloucestershire.

Sarah A. CINDEREY wife aged 29, born Weston under Penyard.

George CINDEREY son aged 7, born Drybrook, Gloucestershire.

Hilda A. CINDEREY daughter aged 5, born Drybrook, Gloucestershire.

Percy H. CINDEREY daughter aged 3, born Drybrook, Gloucestershire.

Mabel A. CINDEREY daughter aged 2, born Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.

Sarah Ann MEEK was a daughter of James MEEK and Celia MEEK nee BURTON. Sarah was born at Weston under Penyard on the 29 March 1872, and baptised at Hope Mansell, Herefordshire on the 28 April 1872.

Celia BURTON was was a daughter of John BURTON and Elizabeth BURTON nee HULIN of St Briavels, Gloucestershire. I am related to Elizabeth HULIN.

It was interesting to note that James MEEK was, in the 1861 Census working at Wallow Farm, Weston under Penyard, for the family of the then farm Bailiff William HALFORD and in the next household was George MEEK, whom I believe was a brother of James MEEK. See RG 9/1814, folio 15, page 3, schedules 13 & 14

In the 1851 Census this George MEEK was then working at Wallow Farm with William MARFELL, Farm Bailiff, head of household. See HO 107/1976 folio 283, page 16, schedule 57.

Cinderey, Marfell and Holy Trinity Church 1841 (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:53:15 +0000

and in 1841 as transcribed ( ancestry)

The only Cindary family in the area is this George - a sawyer.

1841 Harry Hill
Geroge Sindary abt 1811 Dean Forest Gloucestershire Sawyer
Betty Sindary abt 1814 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Sindary abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
George Sindary abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Sindary abt 1840 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
William Sindary abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire

just off Harry Hill
in Drybrook / Nailbridge; the Quarry is in the hands of the Marfell family.
a generation earlier the Hale history suggests it was in the hands of a George Cindary and the donation of stone led to a family rift. Did George sell up ?

1841
Edmund Marfell abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire Quarryman
Ann Marfell abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Abia Marfell abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Leah Marfell abt 1841 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Marfell abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Thiram Marfell abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire

and back at the Parsonage House of Holy Trinity , Quarry Hill

1841
Henry Berkin abt 1781 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire Rector
Maria Linea Berkin abt 1771 Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Adelaide Jenkins abt 1821 Dean Forest Gloucestershire Female Servant
Ann Marfell abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire Female Servant
Timothy Marfell abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire Male Servant
Sarah White abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire Female Servant

Timothy and Ann are brother/sister

Year 1821
Month Mar
Day 11
Parents Surname MARFELL
Child Forename(s) Timothy
Father's Forename(s) Cornelius
Mother's Forename(s) Tamen
Mother's Surname
Place of Residence Ruardean Hill
Occupation Labourer
Officiating Minister H. Berkin
Event type C

Year 1824
Month Jan
Day 25
Parents Surname MARFELL
Child Forename(s) Ann
Father's Forename(s) Cornelius
Mother's Forename(s) Tamen

earlier threads
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=2270#p2291

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=2374#p2394

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

gwrmad — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:37:09 +0000

I know that sawyers mainly saw timber for a living but stone is also sawn ,could this be a clue?

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

hullforester — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:40:37 +0000

Sorry about the long delay everyone, a new theory has come into my head maybe the Cinderey's were quarry owners but George snr wasn't the oldest son so he had to find another job and his brother carried on the quarry.

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

hullforester — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:17:39 +0000

Thanks again everyone this is great progress keep it up!
Elizabeth Wilkes's dad Joseph died before she wed George Snr and so it seems George's dad had too. Thanks again from the forester up north.

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

Ann — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 01:05:07 +0000

Thank you Michael, for information about Betsey Wilkes.

I would also like to thank Graham Davison for sending me information that has filled a few gaps.

GEORGE CINDEREY b.01 Sept 1809, is not my direct family line, but I have found so many facts, I have had to "go with the flow" as they say.

My gt.gt.gt.grandfather WILLIAM SINDRY b.15 Aug 1777 was the brother of GEORGE'S father, GUY b.04 July 1784.
-------------------------------------
GUY SINDRY b. 27 Nov 1738 of Lea or Weston under Penyard married 09 Aug 1751 to ANN LODGE of Brompton Abbots.They had:-

Martha b.29 Oct 1775 - (recorded parents Guy and Nancy - error perhaps?)
WILLIAM b. 15 Aug 1777 married 26 Dec 1802 to MARY MORGAN c.1771.
Mary b. 07 May 1780.
Hannah b.14 Apr 1789.
GUY b. 04 July 1784 - buried 18 Mar 1828 at Hundred of St Briavels married to SUSANNAH JAMES c.1789.
-------------------------------------
GUY SINDRE living at Linton, b.04 July 1784 - 18 Mar 1828, married 29 Nov 1808 to SUSANNAH JAMES c.1789. Could she be Susan James b.12 Apr 1789 at Weston under Penyard? They had:-

GEORGE b.01 Sept 1809 married 07 July 1832 at Abenhall to ELIZABETH WILKES b.29 May 1814.
Henry b. 08 Mar 1812 married 01 Jan 1837 to Mary Ann Mountjoy of Awre with Blakeney.
Susannah b. 07 Nov 1817 married Jun 1842 to Jonathan Rudge.
Mary Ann b.07 Nov 1819.
Charlotte b.13 Jan 1825.
Abiah c.1825

After her husband, Guy died 18 Mar 1828 at Hundred of St Briavels,Susannah married 04 Mar 1833 to James Welsh. In the 1841 census Charlotte and Abiah are living with them at Hope Mansell. James family are next door.
-----------------------------------
I have well documented evidence for the two generations prior to GUY and ANN LODGE. This takes us back to WILLIAM SYNDRY c.16?? - 16 June 1731 and Margarett his wife. They lived at Castle End, Lea where William farmed and was Church Warden at St. John's, Lea. I have a copy of William's will which has given me true facts.

A number of my ancestors were blacksmiths and sawyers. George's family were mainly sawyers. So who is going to find the quarry owner? Maybe it's one of those female Teagues married to a Cinderey!

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

shepway — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:41:00 +0000

Since the posting of my suggested answer to this mystery I have looked at my copy of The Victoria History of the County of Gloucester Volume V The Forest of Dean.
This tells us that the Holy Trinity Church, Drybrook was opened in 1817 and consecrated later the same year. It was built as a free chapel by its first minister Henry BERKIN then curate of Weston under Penyard who began holding services in the Forest in 1812 while at Mitcheldean.
We are therefore looking for a Mr CINDEREY of a generation before George.

Mike

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

shepway — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:09:15 +0000

A possible answer.
This would appear to be the family in 1851 (GFHS transcription):

1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY George HD M 39 Sawyer GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY Betsey WI M 36 - GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY William SO U 17 - GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY George SO - 15 - GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY Elizabeth DA - 13 - GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY Biah DA - 8 - GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY Ann DA - 5 - GLS East Dean
1959 0183 102 Harry Hill CINDRY Sarah DA - 3 - GLS East Dean

The next family is this one:

1959 0183 103 Harry Hill WILKS Sarah HD W 76 Yarn Spinner HEF Castlemorton
1959 0183 103 Harry Hill WILKS Joseph SO U 41 Collier GLS East Dean

This entry from GFHS Marriage Index:
7 July 1832 George SINDERBY of Hundred of St Briavels married Elizabeth WILKES of Hundred of St Briavels by Banns at Abenhall.
Further details available on this website under Parish Records.

This baptism entry from IGI:
29 May 1814 Betsey WILKES baptised at Mitcheldean. Parents Joseph WILKES and Sarah.

This would appear to be burial of Joseph WILKES:
Date: 21 MAR 1827
First Name: JOSEPH
Surname: WILKS
Age: 57
Burial Register: EAST DEAN(DRYBROOK) HOLY TRINITY 1817-1839
Place of Abode: HARRY HILL

Mike

The Mystery of Mr Cinderey (reply)

jimashton — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:43:32 +0000

Just to add to the Marfell side of the Cindery's; George Cinderey's wife was Abia Marfell who you know is the daughter of Edmund Marfell (parents Moses Marfell & Ann Teague) he was baptised 27.7.1800 Mitcheldean and died 3.1.1880 Mitcheldean, buried 7.1.1880 Church of Holy Trinity Drybrook, his wife was Anne Burdock born 1804 Upleadon and died 18.10.1871 Mitcheldean, buried 22.10.1871 Church of Holy Trinity Drybrook.The marriage took place 2.1.1833 Hempstead. Abia was one of 8 children for Edmund & Anne, her brother Hiram born 15.5.1838 was a little unusual in that I have two birth certificates for him as his birth was registered twice. He emigrated to USA in 1870 where he married an Elizabeth Flannagan 24.5.1882 in Denver Colorado. He owned land in Eerie Colorado and was a mine operator, I have his obituary which makes interesting reading, another unusual event was that he sued the Union Pacific Railway together with his partners - and won. I have photographs of road signs "Marfell Court" and "Marfell Street" in Erie Colorado, which no doubt are a result of Hiram.