Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Joseph Wintle ( m Mary Hook 1807) ? parents.

Joseph Wintle ( m Mary Hook 1807) ? parents. (reply)

Gill — Thu, 10 Oct 2013 07:49:32 +0000

Hi
Thanks for that info. I will now go and look up some other family misteries re child timing and see if it fits into this scenario .
Cheers Gill

Joseph Wintle ( m Mary Hook 1807) ? parents. (reply)

mrsbruso — Wed, 09 Oct 2013 23:08:53 +0000

If I may make a suggestion? They were married by license, rather than banns. Frequently, if a couple is married by license, one of two things is generally true: Either the bride or groom is widowed, or one of them is under-age.

This isn't a universal truth, but it's more common than not.

Perhaps not in this case, but in other cases it explains why a couple didn't "formally" marry until after one or more children had arrived, even if they were presenting themselves as married in the community previously.

Finding Parishes & Places within the Forest area (reply)

Gill — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 22:47:29 +0000

Thanks Jeff

All good reminders to use the web site thoroughly . I will need to research the maps well etc before I make my next trip to the area . Hopefully in a years time. Meanwhile the internet and and all those Family Historians that are so willing to share their knowledge.

Cheers Gill

Finding Parishes & Places within the Forest area (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 13:00:42 +0000

Hi Gill,
thanks for your kind words, the pleasure was all mine. Yes the "problem" with his great hobby is the more we learn, then the more we still have left to learn, regardless of how long we've been at it !. I spent the first 25 years of my life living in the Forest and still visit family there, I thought I knew the area pretty well, particularly towards Gloster and Hereford, yet its only these last few years while doing my FH research I've got to know the area properly - even last night I had to check where Tibberton was, even tho I drive within a few miles of it very regularly along the A40 from Gloster to Westbury. Nowadays we often learn the main routes from A to B but without finding the little places just off our well-beaten track.

May I suggest you use this very helpful Map from within this website, find for example Tibberton on the dropdown lefthand menu, press "locate", and the map displays where it is. This map can then be enlarged etc. Repeating with "The Leigh" and you'll find thats about 5 miles east, it's north of Gloster so well-outside of the Forest, far enough from say Tibberton(my error) in the early 1800s to disguise a Marriage !. However the areas you know, Whitecroft/Yorkley is all within a stone's throw of Newland/Coleford, they are all several miles west from Tibberton so almost another world relative to The Leigh in early 1800s respects, hence the apparently odd distance between Baptism & Marriage.

Sorry for the "lecture", not wishing to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I've always had a great interest in maps and for FH research they are a wonderful tool, particularly the fantastically-detailed early Ordnance Surveys.

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/index.php/forest-of-dean-parish-map
This and many other very helpfull period maps are found under the "Forest of Dean" heading at top of this website's homepage.

Joseph Wintle ( m Mary Hook 1807) ? parents. (reply)

Gill — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 07:22:53 +0000

Hi Jeff
Many thanks for all the wonderful information . I may have been on the forum for some time but I still have heaps to learn. I had no idea of the complexities of my grandmother's family until started to try to unravel the Wintles !
It appears all the other children of John and Sarah were born in Llansamlet between 1790 and 1814. The family or some of the family returned to live in the Fod . ( various census shows this )
It is believed that John's father was ( might be )Jonathan Wintle . mo Susannah ( nee Bright) married 1756 at Blaisdon Parish /Chapel. If this is the case John was Bap. 4 May 1760 Tibberton Parish/Chapel.

My knowledge of the FoD is limited to the Yorkley and Viney Hill area so am not sure of the proximity of these places mentioned above. My Grandmother's family eventually settled in Whitecroft.

I will keep on looking.

PS Evidently whilst I live in NZ now the NZ Wintle's are not connected, at least not over the last 200 + years.

Greatly appreciated, Gill

Joseph Wintle ( m Mary Hook 1807) ? parents. (reply)

Jefff — Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:33:01 +0000

Hi Gill,
I know you've been on the forum for some while so I suspect you've probably searched and found these prior threads re the numerous Joseph Wintles ?.
If not perhaps they will help or at least you may see other Wintle researchers who can help you, may be worth contacting them by direct mail.
For example see
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=39487
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=19584

Re the birth pre marriage, presumably the other children you mention were all born after Joseph ?. If so, the fact that Joseph's apparent Baptism occurs in another Parish some miles from their Marriage does suggest to me they were perhaps trying to "disguise" their ill-timed indiscretion from their neighbours etc, I've seen similar cases in other families I've researched even in much more-recent times where people routinely travelled further from their immediate home village or area.

Hope this helps if only a little.

PS I've just read the PRs and realise he was actually Baptised at Coleford/Newland. I had misread your post and thought he was Baptised at Tibberton, so still about 5 miles from Leigh. Now I realise the Baptism & Marriage took place much farther apart then that seems to lend even more credence to the argument for hiding the truth.
When did they move to Glamorganshire ?

For completeness, from this site's PRs:

Record_ID: 263302
Entry_Number:
Year: 1787
Month: Dec
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Joseph
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tiberton Gloucestershire
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 777
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: W534

Record_ID: 100114
Entry_Number: 51
Year: 1787
Month: Dec
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: WINTLE
Child_Forenames: Joseph
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: of the Parish of Tibberton in the County of Glouce
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 5
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: W534

Possible parents ?
Record_ID: 82714
Entry_Number:
Year: 1788
Month: Aug
Day: 28
Grooms_Surname: WINTLE
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: batchelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Lansamleton County of Glamorgan
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: HILL
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: of this parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark:
Witness_1: Elizabeth Weaver
Witness_2: Joshua Weaver
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P199 IN 1/4
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: The Leigh
Soundex_Groom: W534
Soundex_Bride: H400

NB So no parents as witnesses ?. Do you know who the Weavers are, or where from ?

---------------

PPS Searching tinternet for "John & Sarah Wintle Tibberton" gave the following public FH website which details this line in considerable detail including their time in Llansamlett, altho of course I cannot vouch for it's accuracy. http://jamesel1.tripod.com/index.html

You may wish to contact the site's owner, see email address on this page
http://jamesel1.tripod.com/id5.html

Also see this from the Ancestry website:
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=17&p=surnames.wintle

Also this online "Wintle-forum group" contains references to the family:
http://www.wintle.on.ca/wintleuk.html

Joseph Wintle ( m Mary Hook 1807) ? parents.

Gill — Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:51:18 +0000

Hi
Hoping someone might know if Joseph, Bap 16 Dec 1787 Tibberton was the child of the John and Sarah Wintle nee Hill who married 26 Aug 1788 Leigh eight months after his birth.
John and Sarah's other children all appear to have all been born in Llansamlet Glamorganshire.
Was it unusual for children to be born prior to a marriage? I had always imagined 'shot gun ' weddings would have been the norm.

Thanks Gill