On reading all these threads and considering my post above. As Thomas Teague was actually known as Teague otherwise Jones (as was his son James Teague), could it not be possible that this Bertha Morgan (maiden name Jones), was his mother (although it would have stated this in the census) or an Aunt? Is it a possibility that Thomas was illegitimate and that his name of Jones is his mother's maiden name, and that they knew who the father was - aka he was a Teague???? Just throwing the idea out there.

So, on this site I have now found a baptism you will all find interesting---

Thomas James (this transcription is mistranslated and is actually Jones. The original written page is on ancestry and is clearly Jones not James) baptised 28 October 1790 in English Bicknor. Mother - Bertha James (jones), Father - Not stated. Meaning illegitimate.

After this, Bertha married William Morgan in English Bicknor on 9/8/1792.

So his father possibly was one of the Teague families in the area. There were Teague families in English Bicknor. Just look at the parish records on this site and there area few possibles.

Even though he married into my Moore family, I find him fascinating. Especially given the name change. I suspect it was because Mary was pregnant with James when they got married as James was born in August a few months later. They married away from English Bicknor and Abenhall (where she was from, although she was probably in service in Newnham) in Newnham, and then moved to Mitcheldean where she gave birth to James. So perhaps the name change was to hide from the shame??????? Could be another reason, though.

If you need to see the written will of Benjamin Moore in which Thomas Teague and Mary are named then you can view my tree on Ancestry as gedcom hill2017.

Please let me know what everyone thinks.

Belinda.

My name is Belinda and I have been researching Thomas Teague as he married into my family. I came across these threads and researched further. The proof came when researching my Thomas Teague as he, his wife and son James are mentioned in his father in laws will. Thomas Teague was name in the will of my ancestor Benjamin Moore (who died in 1845 in Abenhall). He was listed as Thomas Teague otherwise Jones, as was his wife Mary (who was actually Jane Mary but known all her life as Mary, her middle name, as her mother's name was also Jane). Their eldest son james Teague (b.1817) was also listed as James Teague otherwise Jones. So in answer to all these threads, your Thomas actually married Mary Moore (Jane Mary Moore 1794-1880). The "otherwise Jones" bit confused me for quite a while, also I couldn't find one marriage of a Teague and moore. HOWEVER, this is because as he is known as "otherwise Jones" his real surname was Jones and THIS is what he married under. Their marriage is listed here on the Forest of Dean.net ie -

Thomas Jones of extra parochial, bachelor, married Mary Moore, spinster, married by Banns on 27/5/1817. Officiating Minister John Bowen. Witness 1 - Moses Symonds (this was Mary's brother in law who married her sister Eliza) Witness 2 - Mary Baldwin.

In the will my Benjamin Moore left a pile of land to his four kids (and a couple of grandkids) that they all resided on in Plump Hill area. The land Thomas Teague, Mary and the kids lived on was owned at that time by Benjamin. The land their son James lived on was also owned by Benjamin and he also left this to him in the will.

Thomas Teague did quite well for himself though, becoming a brick manufacturer. He died on the 5/5/1864 as there is a list in the will section on this website for him.
Mary never remarried and there is also a probate listing for her on ancestry.

I have never worked out why he was known as "Jones" and why he married after this, but then he was known as Teague from then on. I can't find one marriage of a Teague anywhere in the UK of a Teague to a Jones in the right time period. I thought maybe one parent or the other had been the Teague. It could be that he was Jones, and that when young his mother remarried and he was raised a Teague???

There are baptisms for a Thomas Jones in English Bicknor around 1791, but no Thomas Teagues. I had also wondered whether he had been illegitimate and that's why the two names.

I hope this clears this up. I have looked at the other possible choices for Thomas and Mary but have proven beyond a doubt that his wife is my Jane "Mary" Moore, daughter of Benjamin Moore and Jane Bright (who died in 1802). There was another Thomas Teague during this time in the forest of Dean but he died in the 1830's and is not ours.

I can't find who is parents were or siblings of him, but if there was a written copy of his will maybe there might be some sort of clue. I can't find anything in the early newspapers on findmypast either.

Belinda.

"I think Thomas may be connected to the HALE family of the Forest of Dean because their name cropps up on various records, witnesses at marriages etc. I have found that sometimes researching off shoots of the family sometimes gives clues."

Offshoot-studies can often pay dividends, I agree. This is the info I have assembled for his daughter, Susannah:
Susan(na) TEAGUE:
b 1831-2 [1841] E Dean [1851]
bap 11 Oct 1831 Mitcheldean d/o Thomas TEAGUE & Mary [RG4-8 IGI-C03618-1]
1841HO107/364fo4p3: age 9 (BiC); Plump Hill, extra Parish F-o-Dean
1851HO107/1959fo177p10: "Susan" age 19; Westbury Brook, E Dean
m1 1852q4 Westbury/Severn. Samuel HALL
m2 19 Dec 1858 St Mary De Crypt, Gloucester Susan HALL & Richard HALE [I03122-6]
1861RG09/1814fo48p1: age 28; New Rd, Ruardean
1871RG10/2597fo56p13: age 39; Ruardean Hill, E Dean
1881RG11/2529fo125p95: (not at home) age 47, blacksmith's wife; visitor (George & Ann BLACKWELL) Plackett's Farm, Wotton St Mary, Glos
1891RG12/2004fo87p19: age 59; Harry Hill, E Dean
1901RG13/2420fo74p40: age 69; Foundry La, E Dean
d 1903q1 age 71 Monmouth
bur 15 Mar 1903 Coleford Cemetery age 71, W

That gives you/us at least one connection.

"Also I thought that Berthia/Bethia Death Certificate (if registered) my hold some clues. I don't know what information they held for this period but it may give the name of the person who registered the death or who was present at the time of death."

That's a good idea: as and when my friend decides how much detail she wants on this part of the family, and how much she's willing to spend, I shall point that possibility out to her.

Christine

I think Thomas may be connected to the HALE family of the Forest of Dean because their name cropps up on various records, witnesses at marriages etc. I have found that sometimes researching off shoots of the family sometimes gives clues.

Also I thought that Berthia/Bethia Death Certificate (if registered) my hold some clues. I don't know what information they held for this period but it may give the name of the person who registered the death or who was present at the time of death.

Since the name "Bethia" appears so persistently, I've just googled it. It seems to be another of the more rarely used Biblical names - but one can understand how transcribers might interpret it as "Bertha".

Now I just have to work out whether she's actually related, or just a valued friend of the family.

Christine

Year: 1792
Month: Aug
Day: 9
Grooms_Surname: MORGAN
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: living on land adjoining to this parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: JONES
Brides_Forenames: Bertha
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: living on land adjoining to this parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: 1792 Jul sic
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: William Hearbert
Witness_2: Lydia Gagg
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: D.P.Davis
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: only month and year given
Notes: Banns are on page 87 & combined with this entry
Register_Reference: P138 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 59
Parish_Chapel: English Bicknor
Soundex_Groom: M625

That looks extremely likely to be a "hit". It's a good match for her age in 1851, too.

Christine

I had identified this as a possible death for Thomas: 1864q2 Westbury on Severn

On that basis, the Will proved 1864 p424 (Will_00527) with less than £200, residence Plump Hill, seemed a reasonably likely "hit": in 1841, his address is "Plump Hill", and, in 1851 and 1861, it's "Westbury Brook" but amongst addresses given as "Plump Hill".

I suppose it would be unlikely to hold anything about events early in his life, but there might be something useful in it.

Christine

and very probably

Year: 1853
Month: Feb
Day: 27
Surname: MORGAN
Forenames: Bertha
Residence: Ruardean
Age_at_death: y[ea]rs 85
Officiating_Minister: William Penfold
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/12
Page_No: 137
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

My friend's link is through Hubert (1859) COOK's younger brother, Thomas (1865), and his wife, Ann HAMMELL (1867-8 Lamesley, DUR).

It would be helpful if "Bethia" showed up in 1841, but she certainly isn't obvious. It can't be certain whether that's intended to be "Bertha" or an unusual diminutive of "Elizabeth" - or even someone's guess at how to spell some other name altogether! In 1851 she's described as "Receiving Parish Relief". Is there likely to be a traceable record of that, which might hold a clue, do you think? It's certainly tempting to think that Mary's maiden name would be MORGAN.

Christine

Record_ID: 16284
Entry_Number: 581
Year: 1767
Month: Oct
Day: 12
Grooms_Surname: TEAGUE
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence:
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: HATTON
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Ruardean
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns called 815
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both signed
Witness_1: Thomas HARPER
Witness_2: Joseph HARPER
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John HARRIS - curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 60
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex_Groom: T200
Soundex_Bride: H350

AS FOR LEAH, SHE HAD A SON CALLED HUBERT WHO LATER MARRIED MY GREAT AUNT ALICE TEAGUE IN 1892 (THOMAS TEAGUE HER FATHER WAS THOMAS TEAGUE 1791 GRANDSON). I HAVE FOUND A LOT OF LINKS WITH IN THE FAMILY LIKE THAT, COUSINS MARRYING ETC

SORRY TO BE OF NO FURTHER HELP AT THE MOMENT

I am helping a friend with her tree, and her link is via Thomas & Mary's daughter, Leah, b 1832-3 East Dean and bap 1 Dec 1833 Mitcheldean.

She married James COOK on 25 Dec 1854 at St John the Evangelist, Cinderford.

I'd be interested to know:
(a) whether any more definitive detail was found for Thomas's (b ca 1789 English Bicknor) marriage to "Mary" (b 1795-6 East Dean)
and
(b) if anyone else is researching Leah's descendants.

Christine

Record_ID: 52327
Entry_Number: 68
Year: 1868
Month: May
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: BLACKWELL
Grooms_Forenames: George
Grooms_Age: Full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Farmer
Grooms_Residence: Credenhill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: BLACKWELL
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Surname: TEAGUE
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age: Full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Corse
Brides_Fathers_Surname: TEAGUE
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Brick Manufacturer
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: John Davis
Witness_2: Kaye Cresswell
Other_Witnesses:

Thomas & Mary had 10 children between 1817 & 1838, it may be possible to get birth cert for last born Mary in 1837/8.

There is a birth entry for Westbury on Seven for a Mary Protheroe Teague Dec 1838 which doesn't match baptism unless year wrong, I could find no other Mary Teague's for this time frame in 1841 / 1851 census so a long shot, but one way of finding mothers maiden name.

I hope this was of help.............Gill

it looks like you need the records around 1815 for Mitcheldean Congregational, or similar non conformist chapel

possibly Thomas TEAGUE and Mary MORGAN of Mitcheldean

Could this be them ?

Year: 1821
Month: Jun
Day: 9
Grooms_Surname: TEAGUE
Grooms_Forenames: Thos.
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Hundred of St Briavels
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: WEAVER
Brides_Forenames: Mary Ann
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Hundred of St Briavels
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Mark of Chas. Weaver
Witness_2: William Hulin Clark
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Wm. Jones Officiating Minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 26
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

Year: 1822
Month: Oct
Day: 6
Parents_Surname: TEAGUE
Child_Forenames: Eliza
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: John Horlick
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Daughter of: born May 25th
Notes:
Register_Reference: D6026 8/1
Page_Number: 9
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Congregational

1841
Thomas Teague abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Teague abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Eliza Teague abt 1822 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Ann Teague abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Susanna Teague abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Leah Teague abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Ellin Teague abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Teague abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

1851
Thomas Teague abt 1789 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Teague abt 1796 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Susan Teague abt 1832 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Teague abt 1838 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Auther Teague abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Grandson East Dean, Gloucestershire
Willm Evans abt 1805 Carmarthenshire, Wales Visitor East Dean, Gloucestershire
Bethia Morgan abt 1769 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Visitor East Dean, Gloucestershire

Year: 1853
Month: Feb
Day: 27
Surname: MORGAN
Forenames: Bertha
Residence: Ruardean
Age_at_death: y[ea]rs 85
Officiating_Minister: William Penfold
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/12
Page_No: 137
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

Year 1792
Month Aug
Day 9
Grooms Surname MORGAN
Grooms Forenames William
Grooms Age [not stated
Groom Condition [not stated
Grooms Occupation [not stated
Grooms Residence living on land adjoining to this parish
Grooms Fathers Surname [not stated
Grooms Fathers Forenames [not stated
Grooms Fathers Occupation [not stated
Brides Surname JONES
Brides Forenames Bertha
Brides Age [not stated
Brides Condition [not stated
Brides Occupation [not stated
Brides Residence living on land adjoining to this parish
Brides Fathers Surname [not stated
Brides Fathers Forenames [not stated
Brides Fathers Occupation [not stated
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns 1792 Jul [sic]
Signature or Mark He signs she marks
Witness 1 William Hearbert
Witness 2 Lydia Gagg
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister D.P.Davis
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes Banns are on page 87
Register Reference P138 IN 1/6
Page Number 59
Parish Chapel English Bicknor

Year 1799
Month Feb
Day 26
Parents Surname MORGAN
Child Forenames Sophia
Fathers Forenames W[illia]m
Mothers Forenames Bertha
Mothers Surname
Residence
Occupation
Officiating Minister
Event Baptism
Memoranda Daug[hte]r of
Notes
Register Reference P220 IN 1/2
Page Number 20
Parish Chapel Mitcheldean

1861
Thomas Teague abt 1790 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Teague abt 1795 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Teague abt 1838 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Aurther Teague abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Grandson East Dean, Gloucestershire