Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Bertha JOYNES nee BALDWIN 1901 ( one to rule out)

Bertha JOYNES nee BALDWIN 1901 ( one to rule out) (reply)

whispernomore — Mon, 01 May 2023 10:22:51 +0000

Yes, this Bertha is probably one we can eliminate as parents don't tally. It's bad enough there are so many Baldwins with the added problem of them all using the same Christian names. I think I have found at least 2 of each Christian name.

It becomes even more interesting when I start on my fathers' name MORGAN!

Mary Rhoda BALDWIN who married Ernest Ernest W P SALMON is definitely one of mine and the 1939 census shows my grandmother and father living with them. I also knew them personally though Aunt Mary died when I was younger.
Eileen Salmon the daughter has now passed away.

Bertha JOYNES nee BALDWIN 1901 ( one to rule out) (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 25 Apr 2023 08:19:28 +0000

This is the daughter of John

Births Mar 1901 (>99%)
Baldwin Bertha
Westbury S. 6a 291

1901 Harry Hill
John Baldwin Head Married Male 34 1867 Coal miner Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Baldwin Wife Married Female 29 1872 - Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Enoch Baldwin Son Single Male 11 1890 - -
Kate Baldwin Daughter Single Female 9 1892 - -
Lavinia Baldwin Daughter Single Female 7 1894 - -
Gertrude Baldwin Daughter Single Female 5 1896 - -
Edith Baldwin Daughter Single Female 2 1899 - Gloucestershire, England
Bertha Baldwin Daughter Single Female 0 1901 - Gloucestershire, England

BALDWIN Catherine Eva HAMMOND 1
908 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 16 331

1911 Harry Hill
John Baldwin Head Married Male 44 1867 Boot repairer Wigpool Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Baldwin Wife Married Female 40 1871 - Cheltenham Gloucestershire
Enoch Jno Baldwin Son Single Male 22 1889 Collier hewers loader Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Kate Sophia Baldwin Daughter Single Female 21 1890 Fuze factory worker Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Gertrude Baldwin Daughter - Female 14 1897 - Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Edith Baldwin Daughter - Female 11 1900 School Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Bertha Baldwin Daughter - Female 9 1902 - Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Herbert Baldwin Son - Male 7 1904 - Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Eva Baldwin Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Harryhill Drybrook Glos
Cecil Thomas Baldwin Son - Male 0 1911 - Harryhill Drybrook Glos

In 1921 with Catherine Eva, Cecil Thomas and 5 others

JOYNES William John Llewellyn BALDWIN Bertha
Forest of Dean Drybrook Holy Trinity 1930 6 182
Marriages Jun 1930 (>99%)
Baldwin Bertha Joynes Westbury S. 6a 734
Joynes William J L Baldwin Westbury S. 6a 734

1939 23 Gloucester Place, Cheltenham
Bertha Joynes 10 Feb 1901 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 88 3

Mary R SALMON Nee BALDWIN 1897 - 1960 (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:39:42 +0000

Marriages Jun 1924 (>99%)
Baldwin Mary R Salmon Evesham 6c 395
Salmon Ernest W P Baldwin Evesham 6c 395

Births Dec 1928 (>99%)
Salmon Mary E E Baldwin Cheltenham 6a 569

SALMON Mary Eileen Ethel BALDWIN 1928 Cheltenham
Cheltenham, Charlton Kings 11A 195

1939 Endcroft Cirencester Road, Cheltenham
Ernest W Salmon 25 Sep 1897 Male Service Vehicle Driver Long Distance Married 160 1
Mary R Salmon 27 Mar 1897 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 160 2
The record for this person is officially closed.
Nora Morgan 02 Feb 1900 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 160 4
Douglas H Morgan 12 Jul 1925 Male Shop Assistant Fancy Toy Sales Single 160 5

2023 address
ENDCROFT, 111 CIRENCESTER ROAD
CHARLTON KINGS
CHELTENHAM
GLOUCESTERSHIRE
UNITED KINGDOM
GL53 8DB

Deaths Dec 1960 (>99%)
SALMON Mary R 63 Cheltenham 7b 325

Deaths sept 1988 (>99%)
SALMON ERNEST WILLIAM P 25SE1897 CHELTENHAM 22 1380

Doris May BALDWIN nee DOUGLAS 1906 - 1995 (reply)

whispernomore — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 09:04:45 +0000

Thank you slowhands much appreciated.

Doris May BALDWIN nee DOUGLAS 1906 - 1995 (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 19 Apr 2023 12:55:52 +0000

Deaths 1995 (6%)
BALDWIN DORIS MAY 2MY1906 GLOUCESTER 4831A 70

1939 Homeleigh, Coalway,
William Baldwin 16 Sep 1905 Male Colliery Haulage Driver Bw Married 166 1
Doris M Baldwin 02 May 1906 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 166 2
The record for this person is officially closed.

1939 The Reddings
Leonard E Douglas 05 May 1878 Male Miner (Retired) Ill Health Married 32 1
Helen Douglas 21 Feb 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 32 2
Muriel (Sylvia) Douglas 28 Jan 1912 Female Public Shopping & Gorting Cable Works Single 32 3
Zena Wadley (Douglas) 25 May 1873 Female Building Cable Works Single 32 4

Marriages Jun 1934 (>99%)
Baldwin William Douglas Monmouth 11a 83
Douglas Doris M Baldwin Monmouth 11a 83

BALDWIN William
DOUGLAS Doris May
Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office 1934 32 162

1911 Horsley Lydbrook
Joshua Douglas Head Married Male 61 1850 Coal miner hewer East Dean Gloucestershire
Matilda Douglas Wife Married Female 56 1855 - East Dean Gloucestershire
Henry Elliott Douglas Son Single Male 25 1886 Coal miner hewer East Dean Gloucestershire
Allen Ewart Douglas Son Single Male 19 1892 Coal miner hewer East Dean Gloucestershire
Ethel Carrie Douglas Daughter Single Female 16 1895 Mothers help East Dean Gloucestershire
Evelyn Alexandra Douglas Daughter Single Female 10 1901 School East Dean Gloucestershire
Doris May Douglas Grandchild Single Female 4 1907 - East Dean Gloucestershire

Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
DOUGLAS Doris May MOULTON 1906 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 14 219

1911 Reddings Lydbrook
Leonard Edward Douglas Widower

Deaths Mar 1909 (>99%)
DOUGLAS Eliza 30 Westbury S. 6a 193

Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
DOUGLAS Leonard Edward Stroud 6a 727
Moulton Eliza Stroud 6a 727

1901 Hawsley Lydbrook
Joshua Douglas Head Married Male 51 1850 Coal miner Gloucestershire, England
Matilda Douglas Wife Married Female 46 1855 - Gloucestershire, England
Maurice C Douglas Son Single Male 24 1877 Coal miner -
Alice A Douglas Daughter Single Female 19 1882 Elictric blasting aperatur -
Henry E Douglas Son Single Male 15 1886 Elictirc fuse maker -
Allen E Douglas Son Single Male 9 1892 - -
Ethel C Douglas Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - -
Eveline A Douglas Daughter Single Female 0 1901

1891
Joshua Douglas Head Married Male 41 1850 Coal miner East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Matilda Douglas Wife Married Female 36 1855 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Maurice Douglas Son Single Male 14 1877 Coal miner East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Leonard Douglas Son - Male 12 1879 Coal miner East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Douglas Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Henry Douglas Son - Male 5 1886 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Miriam Douglas Daughter - Female 2 1889 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Tom Clarke PREECE born 1862 Bream (reply)

whispernomore — Sun, 16 Apr 2023 13:49:41 +0000

Apologies in my last post in this thread I mentioned Edith Baldwin as a child of Harriet but in fact, she was the sister of Harriet, not the daughter, and therefore on her marriage certificate to Tom Clarke PREECE George BALDWIN was correctly written as her father.
The whole family is confusing.

Tom Clarke PREECE born 1862 Bream (reply)

whispernomore — Sat, 15 Apr 2023 10:38:39 +0000

As requested the marriages of Harriets children to the best of my knowledge.

Leonard BALDWIN married Alice Gammond and as you have found out there was no father named for Leonard.

Gertie(Gertrude) BALDWIN 1904-1959 was never married and at various times worked in service with her sister Nora.
Bertha BALDWIN b.1901 I have been unable to find very little about her and as yet no sign of any marriage other than one with a father named John, her age would be correct as would the church of the Holy Trinity Dean Forest. However with the numerous Baldwins in the Forest, also one of the witnesses is Catherine Baldwin which is not a name that has cropped up previously.

Edith BALDWIN who married Tom Clarke PREECE once again named her father as Geoge Baldwin who was in fact her grandfather.

Nora BALDWIN (my grandmother) married Albert MORGAN in Llanishen Glamorganshire on August 2nd 1920 in the Parish Church. Family lore states they ran away to marry and must have been in Llanishen for 4 weeks as the banns were read. The address for both on the marriage certificate was the same for both.
However, though we have Alberts name we do not know where he came from or if any of his information is indeed correct. I say this because Nora gave her age incorrectly presumably so that she didn't need parental permission she was born 1900. She also names her grandfather George as her father the same as Edith had done. (It is possible they all thought as him as their father but more likely did so to simply have a name on the certificate)According to my records George died in 1926. Both Nora and Albert stated that their fathers were deceased.
As I say there are far too many discrepancies on the marriage certificate to know what to believe.

I have no information on Albert MORGAN because due to family lore, she left him more or less straight after the wedding and returned home to Lydb and it was only after pressure from Noras brothers that they got back together if only briefly. My father was born in 1925 but never knew his father and it's more than possible Albert never knew he had a son.

Mary Rhoda BALDWIN married Ernest William Pritchard SALMON in 1924 again I do not have their marriage certificate so do not know if she named a father.

William BALDWIN married Doris May DAVIES 1934 again I haven't found a marriage certificate for this to see if any father mentioned.

Stanley BALDWIN died at 16months so never reached marrige age.

Apologies for all the confusing information I will try to see if I can get hold of the wedding certificates for those unknown.

Tom Clarke PREECE born 1862 Bream (reply)

whispernomore — Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:36:26 +0000

Firstly my sincere apologies for the delay in responding to both of you. Since posting I have spent a week in bed with high fever....Happy Easter me!I am finally up again and able to do a little more checking.
I will respond to both of you as soon as I am able to add any further information.
Thank you so much for your help already .

Harriet BALDWIN 1872 and offspring Lydbrook (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 07 Apr 2023 17:19:16 +0000

1871 Camomile Green Lydbrook
Hannah Baldwin Head - Female 40 1831 - Gloucestershire, England
George Baldwin Son - Male 25 1846 - Gloucestershire, England
Rhoda Baldwin Daughter-in-law - Female 24 1847 - Gloucestershire, England
William Baldwin Son - Male 17 1854 - Gloucestershire, England
Sarah Ann Baldwin Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Baldwin Son - Male 9 1862 - Gloucestershire, England
Emma Baldwin Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Gloucestershire, England
Edith Baldwin Granddaughter - Female 1 1870 - Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Baldwin Granddaughter - Female 0 1871 - Gloucestershire, England
James Page Lodger - Male 21 1850 - Gloucestershire, England
{Edith daughter of George}

if they named a father on their marriage the line I was following !

1881 Worral Hill
George Baldwin Head Married Male 35 1846 Coal miner Gloucestershire, England
Roda Baldwin Wife Married Female 34 1847 - Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Harriett Baldwin Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Gloucestershire, England
Edward Baldwin Son Single Male 6 1875 - Gloucestershire, England
Rossett Baldwin Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Gloucestershire, England
George Baldwin Son Single Male 2 1879 - Gloucestershire, England
Albert Baldwin Son Single Male 0 1881 - Gloucestershire, England

{Harriet daughter of George}

1901Holbrook

Harriett Baldwin - Single Female 28 1873 Charwoman Gloucestershire, England
Leonard Baldwin Son - Male 6 1895 - Gloucestershire, England
Nora Baldwin Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Gloucestershire, England

1911 Upper Lydbrook
Harriet Baldwin Head Single Female 34 1877 Char woman Lydbrook West Dean Glos
Leonard Baldwin Son - Male 16 1895 Hod-boy in coal mine West Dean Glos
Nora Baldwin Daughter - Female 11 1900 School West Dean Glos
Bertha Baldwin Daughter - Female 9 1902 - West Dean Glos
Gertrude Baldwin Daughter - Female 7 1904 - West Dean Glos
William Baldwin Son - Male 5 1906 - West Dean Glos
Stanley Baldwin Son - Male 0 1911 - West Dean Glos

Marriages Dec 1926 (>99%)
Baldwin Leonard Gammond Monmouth 11a 37
Gammond Alice Baldwin Monmouth 11a 37

Year: 1926
Month: Nov
Day: 13
Grooms_Surname: BALDWIN
Grooms_Forenames: Leonard
Grooms_Age: 31
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Upper Lydbrook
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Surname: GAMMOND
Brides_Forenames: Alice
Brides_Age: 34
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Upper Lydbrook
Brides_Fathers_Surname: GAMMOND
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: Albert Gammond
Witness_2: Eva Gammond
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: [illegible]
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P208 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 239
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BALDWIN Leonard GAMMOND Alice Forest of Dean Lydbrook Holy Jesus 1926 1 477

Tom Clarke PREECE born 1862 Bream (reply)

Nick Dub — Fri, 07 Apr 2023 15:10:29 +0000

It would be interesting to know when the various children got married, if they named a father on their marriage certificates.

Tom Clarke PREECE born 1862 Bream

whispernomore — Fri, 07 Apr 2023 09:46:57 +0000

Tom was my great uncle and married Edith Baldwin in 1888, together they had 8 children.
From family tales he was also in a relationship with Ediths sister Harriet(t) Baldwin.
Harriet remained a spinster but also had 7 children possibly, if family stories are true also by Tom.
This would make him not only my great uncle but also my great grandfather.
Sadly all my grandmothers generation are deceased.
I was hoping that maybe someone on this forum may have heard similar tales about him.He is not named on any of the birth certificates of Harriets children.
In fact on my grandmothers marriage certificate she names her grandfather George Baldwin as her father.