Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ?

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

boyscout — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:23:37 +0000

Hi Jim
Thank you for the information. I appreciate that we can't be related now I look closer at line. The 1871 census shows Elizabeth's father as William, but no mother. The 1861 census has several Williams but not it seems the right one as children differ, but again no wife. Henry and Elizabeth were very busy after 1901 with children! Henry died in 1921 and Elizabeth remarried to James Baggott, she died in 1957.
Peter

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

jimashton — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:43:16 +0000

Hi Peter

As far as I know, we are not related. Certainly not via this Hillman connection, my relationship here is only via Edith Lillian Hillman's marriage to Arnold Dennis Nelmes whose mother was a Marfell. However, the Trigg connection could be interesting, I have 334 Trigg's in my Family Tree. Do you know the parents of Elizabeth Trigg who married Henry Hillman in 1893 - Marr Ref June Qtr Wx S 6a 483.

Regarding the death of Mary Hillman I could be wrong but I have it recorded as :

Year: 1876
Month: Jan
Day: 15
Surname: HILLMAN
Forenames: Mary
Residence: Lydbrook Hill
Age_at_death: 76 years
Officiating_Minister: H. T. Hoitt Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P208 IN 1/11
Page_No: 64
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook

I only have 4 children for Henry & Elizabeth, but I only have up to the 1901 Census, they must have been busy after that !!

1901 Census, Wales, Monmouthshire, Mynddislwyn, District No.11
No. 117 of Schedule
Woodfield Side
HILLMAN
Henry - 28, Coal Hewer below Ground, born Cinderford, Glos
Elizabeth - 29 - born C
Thomas - 7 - born C
James Henry - 3 - born C
Florance May - 2 - born Blackwood, Monmouthshire
Lilian Maud - 1 born B

Regarding the surname of Mary, I have taken it from the marriage record, but as you will see from that record it could be wrong. Not an issue I would have pursued as my relative is 3 generations away :

Year: 1822
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: HILLMAN
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: not stated
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: not stated
Grooms_Residence: of the Parish of Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: CUTTER
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age: not stated
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: not stated
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: see notes]
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Richard Jordan
Witness_2: Mark of Ann Jordan
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Thomas Marwood Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: No Banns register found. In this record the surname of the bride was not clear so best guess given
Register_Reference: P138 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 34
Parish_Chapel: English Bicknor

Jim Ashton

Marcy HILLMAN ? 1800 -1876 Lydbrook (reply)

boyscout — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:55:10 +0000

Hi slowhands
I have checked a bit more on B/M/D via findmypast and located Mary Hillman as dying in 1879 at the age of 77 which fits in with her birth year of 1802. Registered at Westbury A/M/J, vol 5A page 92. I think this is likely to be the right person.
Peter

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

boyscout — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:29:43 +0000

Thank you for this information. We are obviously related but I do not know the exact connection. Thomas and Eliza's son Henry(1872-1921)was my grandfather. He married Elizabeth Trigg(1868-1957). They had 17, yes 17, children. All but two survived to adulthood. I have information on them but with such a common surname it is not easy to trace relations, particularly when my uncle George Hillman married Lilian Hillman, no family connection!
The 1841 census is not the same family I am convinced because the childrens names are not the same and dates for William and Mary are different.
Do you have the surname of Mary as FOD records say that they can't be certain of her surname as Cutter/Carter which makes looking up her date of death and birth difficult and I haven't found a match.
If you would like to email me for contact my address is elyhillmans@talktalk.net
Thanks again, Peter Hillman

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

jimashton — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 15:47:17 +0000

Boyscout

I have William Hillman & Mary Cutter in my Family Tree :

1841 Forge Hill, Lydbrook
Wm Hillman abt 1806 Dean Forest,
Mary Hillman abt 1806 Dean Forest,
Emanuel Hillman abt 1833 Dean Forest,
James Hillman abt 1829 Dean Forest,
Mary Ann Hillman abt 1840 Dean Forest,
Thomas Hillman abt 1837 Dean Forest,
Wm Hillman abt 1826 Dean Forest

1851 Census Lydbrook Hill
William Hillman abt 1799 Head East Dean, Tin Worker
Marcy Hillman abt 1802 Kempley, Wife
Edmund Hillman abt 1833 Son East Dean
Henry Hillman abt 1845 Son East Dean,
James Hillman abt 1829 Son East Dean,
M Ann Hillman abt 1840 Daughter East Dean,
Thomas Hillman abt 1837 Son East Dean,

1861 Lydbrook Hill
William Hilman abt 1799 Head East Dean,
Mary Hilman abt 1802 East Dean, Wife
Henry Hilman abt 1845 Son East Dean,
Mary Ann Hilman abt 1840 East Dean, Daughter
Thommos Hilman abt 1837 East Dean, Son

The reason I have the family in my Family Tree is that their son Thomas 1837 married Eliza Corey 1844 at Lydbrook 20 Nov 1964 - still connected rather than related :
Thomas Hillman & Eliza had 5 children including James Walter Hillman 1867/1923 who married Kate Colwell 1871/1958 26 Dec 1898 Cinderford 4 children, including Edith Lillian Hillman who married Arnold Dennis Nelmes my second cousin twice removed as he was the son of Frederick Nelmes & Laura Emily Marfell.

1871 Census East Dean
Eliza Hilleman abt 1844 Newnham, Daughter
Emma Hilleman abt 1870 Lydney, Daughter
James Hilleman abt 1868 Lydney, Son
Thomas Hilleman abt 1865 Lydney, Son

1881 Census
Institution: "Workhouse" Westbury On Severn
Census Place: Westbury On Severn, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341609 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2525 Folio 152 Page 4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Elizth. KEEN U 46 F Forest of Dean
Handicap: Imbecile
Occ: None
George VIRGO M 77 M Forest of Dean
Occ: Blacksmith
Jessie TAYLOR 10 M Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
Elizth. TAYLOR 9 F Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
Wm. TAYLOR 8 M Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
Sarah DARBY M 42 F Forest of Dean
Occ: Housewife
Elizth. DARBY 12 F Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
Julia DARBY 11 F Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
Emanuel DARBY 8 M Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
Hepziybath DARBY 5 F Forest of Dean
Occ: Scholar
James POWELL U 77 M Awre, Gloucester, England
Occ: Carpenter
Wm. POUNER M 64 M Trentham, Gloucester, England
Occ: Iron Labourer
Lucy MEEK U 54 F Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: ((Housekeeper))
James HILLMAN U 13 M Lydney, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Emma HILLMAN 11 F Lydney, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Mary Ann HILLMAN 7 F Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Henry HILLMAN 8 M Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Stephen HALE U 61 M Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Collier
Mary MALSOM U 13 F Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
George MALSOM 10 M Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Edward MALSOM 8 M Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Sophia WILLIAMS 9 F Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Ann PENT 10 F Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Mary HARRISON 12 F Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Scholar
Cornelious KILFORD M 71 M Forest of Dean, Gloucester, England
Occ: Nailer

1891 Census
RG12 2005/128
Eliza Hillman 46 Newnham
James W 23 CM Lydney
Henry 18 CM Cinderford
Mary A 1874 Cinderford

1901 Census East Dean
James Hillman
abt 1868 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean
Kate Hillman
abt 1871 Newent, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean
Dorothy Hillman
abt 1892 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean

Jim Ashton

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

boyscout — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:36:26 +0000

Unfortunately this is not the correct family, but thanks anyway.
Peter

Census Returns - Instructions to Enumerators (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:58:12 +0000

On Genuki : click on : Guy Etchells has assembled a collection of "the official Instructions given to enumerators for each census" which will explain ages sometimes given to Adults on the 1841 census returns.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Census.html

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:13:39 +0000

By using the Advance Search for children of William and Mary HILLMAN

William - 1825, Residence Lidbrook, Tin Sealer, Chapel: Drybrook (age 15 on the 1841 census)

James - 1828 - ditto - (age 12 on the 1841 census)

Paul - 1832 - Residence: Lidbrook, Scaler. Chapel: Drybrook

Emanuel - 1833 - Residence: Lydbrook, Tin dealer Chapel: Drybrook (age 8 on the 1841 census)

Mary Anne - 1840 - Residence: Lydbrook, Scaler, Chapel: Drybrook (age 1 on the 1841 census)

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:13:19 +0000

Thank you for message. I am not quite with you on the 1841 point. Mary was born in 1802. The info on the 1841 census is not the correct family, the children's names do not tie in with the information I have which I know is correct. Why the family do not appear on the 1841 census I cannot fathom. I will have to keep looking, Peter

Adult ages on the 1841 are often rounded to multiples of 5 years, your HILLMANS are living on ForgeHill Lydbrook :-)

Marcy HILLMAN ? 1800 -1876 Lydbrook (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:05:35 +0000

Name: Mary Hillman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1800
Date of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876
Age at Death: 76
Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 185

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

boyscout — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:05:12 +0000

Thank you for message. I am not quite with you on the 1841 point. Mary was born in 1802. The info on the 1841 census is not the correct family, the children's names do not tie in with the information I have which I know is correct. Why the family do not appear on the 1841 census I cannot fathom. I will have to keep looking, Peter

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:40:05 +0000

You could send for Mary Ann HILLMAN's birth certificate (hoping this could be the correct parents), this would give the mother's maiden name.

Quarter: January/February/March 1841

Surname: HILLMAN

First Names: Mary Ann

District: Ross

Volume: 26

Page: 199

or even send for Henry HILLMAN's birth certificate J/F/M Qtr 1845 Ross District
---

Couple of Public Members Trees on Ancestry for this family : no-one has given Mary's maiden name.

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

boyscout — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:33:08 +0000

Dear Slowhands
Thank you for your reply. You obviously have the same person as I have. I have checked the name Carter on findmypast site for birth and marriage but it is not registering Mary (Marcy/Marey)Carter! I have looked at deaths and unfortunately Mary Hillman is very common, however there are a couple of entries that could be possible. Death 1879, registered Westbury, Wilts Vol 5A, Page 92 and 1856, Westbury Vol 5A, page 102. The name of the person registering the death could give a clue so I wonder if you are able to point me in the direction of how I can research these two entries please. I find that now I am into finding information from parish records etc it gets more difficult to find the source, or is it just me being old!!
Hope you may be able to help. Many thanks, Peter

HILLMAN - 1841 Census (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:28:59 +0000

1841 Census, Glos. Dean Forest Ross
Forge Hill

HILLMAN

Wm - 45 - Tinplate, all born in C
Mary - 35
Wm - 15
James - 12
Emanuel - 8
Thomas - 4
Mary Ann - 1

Marcy CUTTER / CARTER ? 1802 Kempley ? (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:37:10 +0000

I am looking to find the marriage date for William Hillman. Your records state that he married Mary(possibly Marey) Cutter in 1822 but can't confirm that Cutter is the correct surname. I can't find her in birth lists under name of Cutter. If the marriage details were available I hope that will give me her maiden name, and then I can find her date of birth and then parents. Hoping someone can help.
Peter Hillman

Year: 1822
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: HILLMAN
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: not stated
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: not stated
Grooms_Residence: of the Parish of Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: CUTTER
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age: not stated
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: not stated
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: see notes]
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Richard Jordan
Witness_2: Mark of Ann Jordan
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Thomas Marwood Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: No Banns register found. In this record the surname of the bride was not clear so best guess given
Register_Reference: P138 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 34
Parish_Chapel: English Bicknor

as transcribed

1841 Forge Hill Lydbrook
Wm Hillman abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Hillman abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Wm Hillman abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
James Hillman abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Emanuel Hillman abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Thomas Hillman abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Hillman abt 1840 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

1851 Lydbrook Hill
William Hillman abt 1799 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Marcy Hillman abt 1802 Kempley [?], Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Hillman abt 1829 East Deane Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Edmund Hillman abt 1833 East Deane Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Hillman abt 1837 East Deane Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
M Ann Hillman abt 1840 East Deane Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Hillman abt 1845 East Deane Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

1861 Lydbrook Hill
William Hilman abt 1799 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Hilman abt 1802 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thommos Hilman abt 1837 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Hilman abt 1845 Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Hilman abt 1840 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

William Hillman

boyscout — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:11:03 +0000

I am looking to find the marriage date for William Hillman. Your records state that he married Mary(possibly Marey) Cutter in 1822 but can't confirm that Cutter is the correct surname. I can't find her in birth lists under name of Cutter. If the marriage details were available I hope that will give me her maiden name, and then I can find her date of birth and then parents. Hoping someone can help.
Peter Hillman