Forest of Dean FHT Forum - TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread

TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:49:29 +0000

I quite agree, shame they cost such a lot of money these days. 35 years ago I was paying about £3.50.

Its about £10.00 for standard service these days - thats inflation beating !!!

TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread (reply)

unknown — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:12:18 +0000

I quite agree, shame they cost such a lot of money these days. 35 years ago I was paying about £3.50.

TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:17:34 +0000

I am wondering whether Vernard was a mis-transcription for something else, e.g. Vernon or Bernard? B and V are easily mistaken for each other when spoken...

...I've had a look on the Internet since writing this and to my surprise Vernard is a name, so it could have been Vernard after all. It's a German name derived from Bernard. There is the Gilbert Vernard Tyler born in March 1908 in Croyden who I can check for more details when I go to the local library as it has a full subscription to Ancestry.

Elizabeth TYLER 18 and Henry Hochleitner marry -
Name: Henry Hochleitner
Name: Elizabeth Tyler
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1908
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 49

and this Gilbert is born 4 or 5 months before they marry

Name: Gilbert Vernard Tyler
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1908
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 350

and then he is living with his grandmother in 1911 - time to get a copy of the Birth cert !

Tyler family (reply)

rookancestrybest — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:32:46 +0000

Yes I have her date of birth for 1873 April-June quarter so will delete the possible marriage to Mr. Preece. Thanks.

TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread (reply)

rookancestrybest — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:30:20 +0000

I am wondering whether Vernard was a mis-transcription for something else, e.g. Vernon or Bernard? B and V are easily mistaken for each other when spoken...

...I've had a look on the Internet since writing this and to my surprise Vernard is a name, so it could have been Vernard after all. It's a German name derived from Bernard. There is the Gilbert Vernard Tyler born in March 1908 in Croyden who I can check for more details when I go to the local library as it has a full subscription to Ancestry.

HOCHLEITNER ROOKE family (reply)

rookancestrybest — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:09:08 +0000

How much of it do you need? I am descended from Thomas Rook, son of the Thomas Rook you have in the posting. Some spelt it Rook others Rooke and some switched from one spelling of it to another.
Though the records are that his wife was baptised in Bristol the family always maintained that she was French but I have come to the conclusion that it may have been her mother who was French or that she was educated there (possibly for religious reasons). She was always referred to as Marie by my mother who learned this from her great auntie who used to say that people in the Forest of Dean knew her as "the little French lady" which is why what I have found out about her being in England for her baptism and confirmation have puzzled me for years. They married on 21st and 22nd February 1813, the reason why they had two weddings is because they were RC and marriages in that church were not recognised by the state so they married in the C of E as well as was the custom. A picture of this Thomas is on this website, who like some of those descending from him was a blacksmith along with other family pictures.

Thomas and Elizabeth Mary/Marie had the following children (many of the dates I have are from the family Bible therefore correct),

1.Joseph Rook (the eldest child) born 5th February 1814,
he had four children.

2. Mary born May 21st 1816 who died in 1819.

3. Thomas born June 1818(my direct line) had 6 children, (five lived and one died of scarletina when he was a toddler).

4. Charles J born 1824 was the one who went to Poughkeepsie, he and his wife had three sons but two died as children and only one survived.

5. Paul (Born 1830) had 8 children.

I have a lot of names, dates etc but would prefer to give them by e-mail which you can contact me via the e-mail facility on this site.

Tyler family (reply)

unknown — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:52:18 +0000

The Rose Tyler who married William Preece is shown on the 1911 census as being born approx 1886 at Chepstow so I do not think this is Rosa Tyler born 1873 West Dean.

HOCHLEITNER ROOKE family (reply)

unknown — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:23:00 +0000

Many thanks for your replies. I have traced the Rook family back to Thomas b. 1791 d.1807 married to Elizabeth Stead who was born 1786 Bristol d.1886.
Children Joseph b. 1816
Thomas b. 1819
Charles J b. 1826-1852 - emigrated to NY USA 1840 married Mary Ann Adams
Paul b. 1831-1871 - married Hannah Hawkins 1852 - I have 8 children from this marriage.
Maria 1852-1923 - married John Tyler 1870 - 9 children
Charles 1855
Joseph 1857 - married Elizabeth Hale 1880 - 6 children
Urban 1859 - married Mary Ann Harris 1890 - 4 children
Symphorosa 1861-1937 - 3 marriages - 3 children
Teresa 1863
Alban 1865 - married Janet James 1897 - 2 children
Elizabeth 1867
If you can fill in any gaps for me I would be grateful and if you need any further details of the persons above please let me know.

TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread (reply)

unknown — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:55:48 +0000

I have looked at the original image and it is Vernard not Urban. This is the only Gilbert Tyler birth around that time.
Thank you.

Gilbert Frank ROOKE 1909 -1966 Garway HER (reply)

rookancestrybest — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:39:23 +0000

This is a new name for me to investigate! I haven't stumbled across any reference to anyone called Gilbert Frank Rook/Rooke in my family yet so will now investigate it further. Some people did move to the West Midlands though I don't think I've found any in Lichfield.

Sept. 12th can't find any connection with my Rook/Rooke family for any of these names though the family did say they had relatives in Herefordshire so I will need to look into it further to see if there is any connection.

HOCHLEITNER ROOKE family (reply)

rookancestrybest — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:33:01 +0000

The Hochleitners were brothers, one named Henry who married Elizabeth Tyler,on August 8th 1908. John H Tyler and Laura Tylor were witnesses at their wedding. Henry appeared to work in the catering/hotel industry as did his father who is likely to be Frank or Franz Hochleitner.
I lost trace of Henry and Elizabeth too and wondered if World War 1 might have led them either to move to another country or to change their name. At this time having a German sounding name could have made them subject to abuse as I know that this was the case with other people of German and Austrian origin elsewhere.
Martin Hochleitner married Elizabeth Simpson (born in Stratton, Gloucestershire) and I am not sure whether it was she or Elizabeth nee Tyler who is the one who was living in Hampstead (and indeed died there in 1964) as both couples went to live in London, I had always presumed it was Elizabeth nee Simpson but have not been able to verify it. However, I have found that Elizabeth (nee Simpson) and Martin (married last quarter of 1912 in Cirencester) are likely to have had a child called, Frederick Martin Hochleitner born about 1912 or 1913 born in Cirencester but I can find nothing more about him either.

I hope this is of use to you, please let me know if you find anything more about these and the Tylers as I am interested to compare notes.

If you need anything about the Rook family I have tons of information so let me know if you wish to pursue any research about Maria as I might save you a lot of work.You may also be interested to know that a Rook relative of Maria married a Swiss man from Berne.

Gilbert Frank ROOKE 1909 -1966 Garway HER (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:30:45 +0000

I also found reference in the census to Gilbert but didn't know the middle name so I've added it to my record. It is possible that he died in 1936 but I haven't verified it yet. I am as puzzled as you are about who his parents may be but he does appear to have been Maria's and John's grandchild. Maria was born on 31st May 1852 in Coleford, married John on 24th January 1870 and died in June 1923, buried at Coleford.

Name: Gilbert Frank Rooke
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1909
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 32

Name: Gilbert F Rooke
Spouse : Doreen M Bartholomew
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1936
Registration district: Lichfield
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1151

Margaret P Rooke Apr-May-Jun 1939 Lichfield Staffordshire

Arthur J Rooke Apr-May-Jun 1942 Lichfield Staffordshire

Barry J Rooke Oct-Nov-Dec 1944 Lichfield Staffordshire

Name: Gilbert F Rooke
Birth Date: abt 1910
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1966
Age at Death: 56
Registration district: Lichfield
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 240

<><><><>< possible in Garway

1911
Tom Rooke 36 Llancloudy HER
Priscilla Rooke 32 Uley GLO
Henry Rooke 11 Garway HER
Nora Rooke 9 Garway HER
James Rooke 8 Garway HER
Wilfred Rooke 6 Garway HER
Gilbert Rooke 1 Garway HER
Gladys died TB

Name: Gladys Muriel Rooke
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1906
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1906
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 19

1901
Lone Rocke abt 1875 Llangrove, Herefordshire, England Head Garway, Herefordshire
Priscilla Rocke abt 1879 Uley, Gloucestershire, England Wife Garway, Herefordshire
George H Rocke abt 1900 Garway, Herefordshire, England Son Garway, Herefordshire

Name: Tom Rooke
Name: Priscilla Elizabeth Simmons
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1899
Registration district: Ross
Inferred County: Herefordshire
Volume Number: 6a
Page Number: 1091

1891
Tom Rooke abt 1875 Garway, Herefordshire, England Servant Garway, Herefordshire

1881
James Rooke abt 1847 Hereford, England Head Garway, Herefordshire
Catherine Rooke abt 1849 Hereford, England Wife Garway, Herefordshire
George Henry Rooke abt 1872 Hereford, England Son Garway, Herefordshire
Thomas Rooke abt 1875 Hereford, England Son Garway, Herefordshire
Ann Rooke abt 1877 Hereford, England Daughter Garway, Herefordshire
William Rooke abt 1879 Hereford, England Son Garway, Herefordshire

Tyler family (reply)

rookancestrybest — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:12:56 +0000

I've found time to check these before I thought. Rosa Tyler is a bit of a mystery to me too, it is possible but QED that she married William Thomas Preece in 1909 at Tidenham. Rosa may well have been named after a relative called Symphirosa Rook referred to as Rosa. I have found nothing more than you have on Lizzie Tylor though she has been referred to as Libby too and her birth was registered at Monmouth.

I also found reference in the census to Gilbert but didn't know the middle name so I've added it to my record. It is possible that he died in 1936 but I haven't verified it yet. I am as puzzled as you are about who his parents may be but he does appear to have been Maria's and John's grandchild. Maria was born on 31st May 1852 in Coleford, married John on 24th January 1870 and died in June 1923, buried at Coleford.

Tyler family (reply)

rookancestrybest — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:59:36 +0000

Don't rule them out yet, as there are lots of American relatives and the job of being a toolmaker has family connections too as many worked in the iron and steel industry. Some members of the family settled in New York State, others in Pennsylvania and there is some evidence to suggest others were in West Virginia.

HOCHLEITNER ROOKE family (reply)

rookancestrybest — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:54:41 +0000

I am related to this family (via the Rook/Rooke family) I will check my records to see if there's anything I can add to it.
Sorry if it takes me a while but I will respond. You will also find from a search or two that I've put postings on this site about relevant people before, including the Hoechleitners, Tyler/Taylors and the Rooks.

HOCHLEITNER ROOKE family (reply)

unknown — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:26:04 +0000

Thank you, having looked at it again I agree.
Kind regards.

HOCHLEITNER ROOKE family (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:07:44 +0000

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my enquiry. I checked out the Gilbert on the passenger list some time ago but it says he was born in the USA so I do not think this is the one I am looking for. I think I will have to purchase his birth certificate as this will also tell me if Elizabeth was his mother. The Elizabeth who married Hochleitner was the daughter of the family and on Ancestry Martin (who may be her brother-in-law) is named on the probate. I have not been able to trace what became of her husband, she is on the electoral rolls for many years in London.

I think the Electoral and Probate Elizabeth is Martin's wife rather than Henry's

Name: Martin Hochleitner
Spouse :Elizabeth Simpson
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Cirencester
County: Gloucestershire, Wiltshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 879

HOCHLEITNER Martin
SIMPSON Elizabeth
Cirencester Cirencester Register Office
1912 10 131

again I think this is Martins wife

THE LONDON GAZETTE, 24 OCTOBER, 1941

Hochleitner, Elizabeth;- Germany; Of no occupation;
23, Camden Square, Carriden Road,London, N.W.I. 22 September, 1941.

In the electoral register 1945/46 there are 2 Elizabeth H's one in Camden one in Kensington -- the Kensington one may be Henry's wife.

Given the period of history its possible they changed the Austrian surname and stayed in the UK - in which case an added degree of difficulty has been added to the quest :-)

Tyler family (reply)

unknown — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:51:05 +0000

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my enquiry. I checked out the Gilbert on the passenger list some time ago but it says he was born in the USA so I do not think this is the one I am looking for. I think I will have to purchase his birth certificate as this will also tell me if Elizabeth was his mother. The Elizabeth who married Hochleitner was the daughter of the family and on Ancestry Martin (who may be her brother-in-law) is named on the probate. I have not been able to trace what became of her husband, she is on the electoral rolls for many years in London.

Tyler family (reply)

m p griffiths — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:49:01 +0000

??????? probably the wrong Gilbert TYLER, but just in case.....

Ancestry

UK Incoming Passenger Lists 1878-1960

Name: Gilbert TYLER (also Norah TYLER age 47)

c1908

age 40 (Toolmaker) - proposed address in the UK - 14 Powis Terrace, London W11

Port of Departure: New York, United States

Arrival Date: 14 July 1949

Port of Arrival: Southampton, England

Ship: Queen Mary

Shipping Line: Cunard White Star

Official Number: 164282

----

previous thread 1911 census (now available)

Flat 3 rooms

6 Victoria Mansion, Edgware Road W Paddington, London

Married 3 years - no children

Henry HOCHLEITNER - age 26 - Waiter (Hotel) Austria (Resident)
Elizabeth HOCHLEITNER - age 28 - born Glos. Coleford (? is this the mother of Gilbert?)

-----
???

1901 Census, London St Pancras

Gray's Inn Lane

Elizabeth TYLER - 18 Housemaid - born (London N.K.)

---

1911 Census, 15 Chitty Street, St Pancras

Martin HOCHLEITNER - age 22 - single - Secretary Employment Agency Works, born Austria (resident)

TYLER family ( to save duplication) prior thread (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:58:50 +0000

I am researching the children of John Tyler & Maria Rook. I cannot trace the following and would be grateful for any help your members may be able to offer.
Rosa born June qtr 1873 no trace after the 1891 census.
Lizzie born September qtr 1870 no trace after the 1871 census.
Also who are the parents of Gilbert Vernard Tyler born March qtr 1908 - Croydon and living with his grandmother Maria on the 1911 census.
Thank you.

The context of this family is debated here ( locked thread)
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=26919

He could be the son of Elizabeth TYLER and Henry Hochleitner born before the marriage ?

Also who are the parents of Gilbert Vernard Tyler born March qtr 1908 - Croydon and living with his grandmother Maria on the 1911 census
Is Vernard - URBAN ? - an often used ROOK first name

1911
TYLER MARIA F 1852 59 Monmouth Monmouthshire
TYLER JAMES M 1895 16 Monmouth Monmouthshire
TYLER GILBERT M 1908 3 Monmouth Monmouthshire

or as Ancestry has them !
1911 Broadwell Nr Coleford Gloucester

Maria Lyler 59 Widow Lane End
James Lyler 16 Son Collier Lane End
Gilbert Lyler 3 Grandson London