Please refer to the 1861 Census:

1861 Census RG9 1754 176
Roberts George 60 Coal Miner Ruardean
Hannah wife 55 Abenhall
Albert Edwin 18 Coal Miner East Dean
Thomas J Barnard son in law mar 21 Iron Miner Abenhall
Eliza dtr 25 mar Abenhall
Hannah E grandaughter 1 mth East Dean

Hiram Thomas J Barnard born 1841 Abenhall, son of Thomas Barnard & Elizabeth Trigg, married Eliza Barnard and they moved to Cornwall :

1881 Census
Dwelling: 76 Pendarves St
Census Place: Camborne, Cornwall, England
Source: FHL Film 1341561 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2336 Folio 73 Page 38
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas BARNARD M 39 M N K, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Tin Miner
Eliza BARNARD M 46 F N K, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
Thomas BARNARD 15 M N K, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Mine Engine Driver
Sarah BARNARD 11 F N K, Gloucester, England
Rel: Daur
John HAYWARD U 32 M N K, Gloucester, England
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Tin Miner

Jim Ashton

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=2703

1851 Stenders Road
George Roberts abt 1802 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Hannah Roberts abt 1807 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Albert Roberts abt 1843 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Edwin Roberts abt 1836 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
George Roberts abt 1833 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
John Roberts abt 1823 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
William Roberts abt 1839 Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

I would like to check the Baptism Records, but having re-registered yesterday, I now cannot get back in with the same details. However, I have the son of Moses Roberts as William Roberts baptised 24.2.1793 who married Ann Barnard. What I wanted to check is that another William Barnard baptised 1797/98 was the son of a solicitor and married a Mary Ann at Longhope 9.11.1820, perhaps this is your William 1798. There are lots of William Roberts - in my own family tree I have 10 born between 1730 & 1800.

sorry to only ask a question rather than offering help!
William Roberts b.c. 1797 married Elizabeth Parlour at Abenhall on 14 Aug 1825. I know a number of researchers out there have William's parents as Moses Roberts and Mary Hayward who married at English Bicknor in 1791 and had a son William baptised in 1793.
there was another William Roberts baptised at Bicknor on 16 Oct 1797 to William and Mary Roberts.
I have checked many areas in an attempt to determine the parents of William Roberts the shoemaker. In the end I can make a circumstancial case for either Moses and Mary or William and Mary.
Has anyone found that key bit of information to help firm up whether it was the 1793 or the 1797 William Roberts who became a shoemaker and lived to 86 years of age in Lydbrook.

many thanks......Danny

The census details for the family at the start of your reply are certainly the right one, the Tingle family should read Roberts, unless there is a Tingle family with exactly the same children.

However the Ann Roberts baptised 23.9.1827 at the Non Conformist Church, daughter of William Roberts & Elizabeth Parlor I already had in my tree and did not marry William Roberts she married Elijah Meek 14.9.1846.

I have another correspondent on this matter who is unable to reply to the Forum, I have pasted in her reply in italics :

Dear Jim Sorry I can't write direct to the Forum but we can't seem to get my password sorted.
William & Elizabeth at Joys Green (offered by Slowhands) had a son William (birth date out by 5 years) who was at home in 1851.
Govt BMD offers 1 marriage in the 1850 area: William Roberts m. Ross district 1849/4 (XXVI 357)the only one I can find which relates to Ruardean. It might be worth sporting £7 for this, but I think the date is a bit early. What do you think?

The William Roberts mentioned above, son of William Roberts & Elizabeth Parlor, baptised 15.3.1829 married Charlotte Hussey, so it's not him either :

1861 Census English Bicknor
William Roberts 32 Shoemaker Lydbrook
Charlotte 32 Shoe Binder Lydbrook

1871 Census English Bicknor
William Roberts 42 Shoe Maker Joys Green
Charlotte 42 Herefordshire

1881 Census
Dwelling: Joys Green
Census Place: (Westbury On Severn) East Dean, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341609 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2522 Folio 43 Page 5
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William ROBERTS M 52 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Colliery Banksman
Charlotte ROBERTS M 52 F Bishopwood, Hereford, England
Rel: Wife

I would have been happy to purchase the certificate to add to my collection of over 800, but have just checked Free BMD and find that none of the females on Ross 1894/4 XXV1 357 are Ann, there is a Sarah Cross and a Mayo Leak. I can only assume Mayo is a female as the others are male.

I don't know where to turn next.

Thanks again

Jim

I'm sure this family is a non-conformist group which may explain why finding them is proving difficult
Why the TINGLE records in 1861 ? was William a TINGLE there are TINGLE families in the Moorwood / Ruardean area

1851 Aston Bridge
William Roberts abt 1828 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Roberts abt 1829 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire

1861 Ruardean Woodside ?
William Lingle abt 1827 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Lingle abt 1828 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Lingle abt 1856 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
James Lingle abt 1860 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Lingle abt 1858 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Sarah Lingle abt 1854 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Thomas Lingle abt 1851 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

1871
Willm Roberts abt 1825 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Roberts abt 1829 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Jas Roberts abt 1860 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
L A Roberts abt 1855 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
M A Roberts abt 1857 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Mariah Roberts abt 1863 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Thomas Roberts abt 1853 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

1881 (Newham Bottom), Westbury On Severn - East Dean,
William Roberts abt 1828 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head
Ann Roberts abt 1829 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Wife
Elizabeth Roberts abt 1855 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter ,
Henry Roberts abt 1872 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son
James Roberts abt 1859 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son
Richard Roberts abt 1878 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Grandson
Thomas Roberts abt 1879 Ross, Hereford, England Grandson

Could this be Ann ROBERTS from Ruardean ??

Year 1827
Month Sep
Day 23

Parents Surname ROBERTS
Child Forename(s) Ann

Father's Forename(s) William
Mother's Forename(s) Elizabeth
Mother's Surname
Place of Residence
Occupation
Officiating Minister Jn HORLICK
Event type Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference
Page No
Parish/Chapel Ruardean Independent

1841 Moorwood/ForgeHill Ruardean/Lydbrook borders.
Wm Roberts abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Roberts abt 1803 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Allin Roberts abt 1840 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Ann Roberts abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Henry Roberts abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Rowland Roberts abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Wm Roberts abt 1830 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire

If only I could find the William Roberts who married Ann whose ancestors include my connection to the Watkins family, also to F o D site contributor Gill.

next census entry

1841 Harry Hill
Moses Roberts abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Presilla Roberts abt 1808 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Ann Roberts abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Roberts abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Lucy Roberts abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Rebecka Roberts abt 1840 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Sophia Roberts abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire

Hannah's mother ??

It looks to me (though it may be unprovable) that William Roberts, son of William & Ann, married his cousin Susannah, daughter of George Roberts, both of them living at Stenders, and that the marriage entry is in fact inaccurate as to father of Susannah. The witness John Roberts would have been her older brother. Her belief that she was born in Wales may have been true but like so much may have been also inaccurate.

George Roberts 1797 & Hannah Thomas 1801 are in my Family Tree – census data is shown below. As Susannah married 21.8.1847 she is not here, but you can see the brother John referred to above. Interesting that their daughter Eliza married a Thomas J Barnard (they subsequently moved to Cornwall for the Tin mining) as the father of Ann Barnard who married William Roberts was Thomas Barnard who married Mary Ann Goode :

1851 Census
ROBERTS George 49 Coal Miner Forest of Dean
Hannah 44 Forest of Dean
John 28 Iron Miner Forest of Dean
George 18 Coal Miner Forest of Dean
Edwin 15 Coal Miner Forest of Dean
William 12 Scholar Forest of Dean
Albert 8 Forest of Dean

1861 Census RG9 1754 176
Roberts George 60 Coal Miner Ruardean
Hannah wife 55 Abenhall
Albert Edwin 18 Coal Miner East Dean
Thomas J Barnard son in law mar 21 Iron Miner Abenhall
Eliza dtr 25 mar Abenhall
Hannah E grandaughter 1 mth East Dean

1871 Census East Dean RG10/2597/5/2
George Roberts 69 iron Miner Ruardean
Hannah 67 Abinghall

The question for which I am seeking assistanceremains; who were the parents of William Roberts also born 1824 who married Ann whose family are detailed below :

1881 Census
Dwelling: (Newham Bottom)
Census Place: (Westbury On Severn) East Dean, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341609 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2522 Folio 20 Page 2
William ROBERTS M 53 M Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Coal Miner
Ann ROBERTS M 52 F Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
Elizabeth ROBERTS U 26 F Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Daur
James ROBERTS U 22 M Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Coal Miner
Henry ROBERTS 9 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Richard ROBERTS 3 M East Dean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Gson
Thomas ROBERTS 2 M Ross, Hereford, England
Rel: Gson

I have now been in email correspondence with a person who is connected to Ann Roberts 1835, daughter of William Roberts 1793 & Ann Barnard 1790. My email correspondent thinks that the William Roberts 1824, son of the same William Roberts 1793 & Ann Barnard 1790 actually marries Susan Roberts 21.8.1847. This marriage has the parents of William & Susan Roberts as William Roberts – there were lots of them. The main reason for coming to this conclusion is that William Roberts 1793 & Ann Barnard 1790 had a son James 1827 who married Harriett Bayliss 9.10.1852 with witnesses William & Susan Roberts. The witnesses at the marriage between William Roberts & Susan Roberts were John Roberts & Eliyd Roberts. Susan Roberts is from Brecon and the second witness is “Welsh” sounding. I actually have William & Susan Roberts in my family tree as one of their 9 children – Lucy married Osman Meek, who is related to me. The Census for William & Susan Roberts are:

1851 Census
ROBERTS William 27 Iron Miner Forest of Dean
Susanna 25 Brecon
Eliza 2 East Dean

1861 Census West Dean
William Roberts 37 Miner Plump Hill
Susan 34 Brecon
Eliza 12 Stenders, East Dean
Jane 8 Stenders, East Dean
Emma 6 Stenders, East Dean
George 5 Stenders, East Dean
William 3 Stenders, East Dean
Joseph 2 Stenders, East Dean
Thomas 7 mths Stenders, East Dean

1871 Census East Dean
William Roberts 45 Iron Miner East Dean
Susan 44 East Dean
Jane 18 East Dean
Emma 16 East Dean
George 15 East Dean
William 13 Imbecile East Dean
Joseph 12 East Dean
Frederick 7 East Dean
Lucy 4 East Dean

I have no marriage details for William & Ann, which must have been around 1850/51 judging by their first child Thomas being born 1852. And by the Census data that slowhands has found

So to conclude, either way, I have them in my family tree, but obviously I want to get it right. And my correspondent’s version breaks my “related” link to the Watkins family.

Can anyone help please?

Jim Ashton