Forest of Dean FHT Forum - UPDATE!!

UPDATE!! (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 17 Feb 2025 13:51:26 +0000

Monmouth registration district covered parts of Glos, Herefordshire and of course Monmouthsire.

So an 1845 birth in West Dean, Coleford English Bicknor Lydbrook would probably be under the Monmouthshire registration district ( as opposed to county)

UPDATE!! (reply)

mpowell831 — Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:03:32 +0000

Hey everyone. I touched base with a distant cousin who lives in Pontypool. We've collaborated a few times and I mentioned the Henry dilemma to her. She said in all of her investigating she's only found one other Henry Powell with an approximate time frame/location match. He was born in 1845 in Monmouthshire- but she's pretty confident it is NOT him. I THINK I read once that some Forest records/services/etc fell under Monmouthshire at one point, but I could have that wrong. Still the UK obviously but I'd imagine autonomy would be an issue if you have counties being absorbed by other countries regardless if they were part of the UK or not. Feel free to weigh in, but figured I'd touch base. Thank you all for everything you do!

Priscilla DOVEY nee WHITE 1823 - 1895 ? (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:45:34 +0000

yes thats the way things are pointing

just been considering how to find out iF Elizabeth WHITE/POWELL had married to become a WHITE ?

so an outside contender ( lots of research to do Im afaraid)

Year 1802
Month Sep
Day 22
Grooms Surname WHITE
Grooms Forenames John
Grooms Age
Groom Condition Bachelor
Grooms Occupation
Grooms Residence Hundred of St Briavels
Grooms Fathers Surname
Grooms Fathers Forenames
Grooms Fathers Occupation
Brides Surname MORGAN
Brides Forenames Elizabeth
Brides Age
Brides Condition spinster
Brides Occupation
Brides Residence Hundred of St Briavels
Brides Fathers Surname
Brides Fathers Forenames
Brides Fathers Occupation
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark Both mark
Witness 1 James Morgan
Witness 2 Thos Bond
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister Thos Brown Simpson curate
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P227 IN 1/10
Page Number 43
Parish Chapel Newland

Priscilla DOVEY nee WHITE 1823 - 1895 ? (reply)

mpowell831 — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:16:45 +0000

Just to confirm, we're thinking this Priscilla is Henry's sister, correct?

background (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 17:27:23 +0000

Would not being married and having children together although common, be ill thought of as well?
Or is it more having children out of wedlock that was the issue there?

< my opinion>

I guess its a case of if anyone knew - communication was certainly not as well developed as today, so if they were living away from family and old friends even one side of the FOD to another, I suspect that no one would know or raise an eyebrow - it probably explains the census entries which ( I suspect) should show POWELL and WHITE - I may be wrong

and the converse is almost certainly true living together and children out of wedlock were frowned upon ( when the situation was known)

there was a strong tradition of Chapels ( Non conformist / Free Churches) in the Forest and some of the views around alcohol, marriage etc were very strong.

hope this helps

Henry POWELL 1840(ish) Brockweir / Woolaston/ St Briavels (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 16:41:08 +0000

Okay this makes me feel a lot better with your explanation- thank you very much for that! I know the ages could definitely vary based on how they were told to answer (23 becomes 20 and 37 becomes 40 and such). We'll never know the answer to this, but I can't help but think that if they WEREN'T married, maybe Elizabeth had some of the children with someone else. I also know that Henry's son/ John's grandson William was married but had an affair with a girl from Ruardean and it was NOT well thought of. Would not being married and having children together although common, be ill thought of as well? Or is it more having children out of wedlock that was the issue there? I just try to incorporate details like that into thinking about some of this stuff.

Either way, it seems like everyone is pretty confident moving forward with Elizabeth White being the mother of Henry. I originally had this in my tree but the census records were making me second guess myself upon closer looks.

Also, it seems like Crow Hill/Upton Bishop, although in Herefordshire, are on the southern side of the county and not TOO far from the Forest. Maybe he wasn't view as as much of an outsider.

Thank you all so much for your hard work and helping me through this. I try to pride myself on having a decent foundation of knowledge with this stuff and what not, but being on the other side of the pond makes it difficult at times.

Priscilla DOVEY nee WHITE 1823 - 1895 ? (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 15:45:48 +0000

1841 Brockweir Common
John Powell Male 40 1801 Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Powell Female 40 1801 Gloucestershire, England
Percilla Powell Female 18 1823 Gloucestershire, England
Mary Powell Female 11 1830 Gloucestershire, England
John Powell Male 5 1836 Gloucestershire, England
Henry Powell Female 0 1841 Gloucestershire, England
Liana Powell Female 1 1840 Gloucestershire, England

1851 Bicknor(?) Court House English Bicknor
Mary Anne Davies Head Unmarried Female 60 1791 Gentlewoman annuitant Usk, Monmouthshire, Wales
Priscilla White Servant Unmarried Female 28 1823 House serv St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England

1861 39, Anchorberry, West Dean,
James Dovey Head Married Male 23 1838 Carter Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England
Priscilla Dovey Wife Married Female 37 1824 Carters wife Gloucestershire, England
James W Dovey Son - Male 8 1853 School Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
William Dovey Son - Male 7 1854 School Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England

1871 Charles Street, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent
James W Dovey Head - Male 41 1830 Blacksmiths striker Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England
Priscilla Dovey Wife - Female 48 1823 - St B?riavels, Gloucestershire, England
Alexander Dovey Son - Male 18 1853 Coal miner Dry Brook, Gloucestershire, England
William Dovey Son - Male 17 1854 Carter Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Dovey Son - Male 8 1863 Scholar Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England

1881 5, Ct Grandville Street, Birmingham
James Dovey Head Married Male 49 1832 Carter English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England
Priscilla Dovey Wife Married Female 56 1825 House wife Gloucestershire, England
William Dovey Son Widower Male 27 1854 Labourer (fitter) English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Dovey Son Single Male 18 1863 Labourer (fitter) East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1891 156, Broad Street,Court Birmingham
James Dorey Head Married Male 59 1832 Carter to corn dealer English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England
Priscilla Dorey Wife Married Female 67 1824 - -

Deaths Dec 1895 (>99%)
Dovey Priscilla 75 Aston 6d 219

First name(s) James
County Warwickshire
Last name Dovey
Country England
Relationship Head
Registration district Aston
Marital status Widower
Sub-district Duddeston
Sex Male
Enumeration district 48
Age 70
Parliamentary borough or division East Birmingham
Birth year 1831
Municipal borough or ward Nechells
Birth town Bicknor
Ecclesiastical parish or district St Clements
Birth town as transcribed BICKNOR
Archive reference RG13
Birth place England
Piece number 2873
Birth county Gloucestershire
Folio 43
Birth county as transcribed GLOUCESTERSHIRE
Page 25
Occupation Carpenter
Schedule 153
Full address 11, Charles Arthur Street Poplar Terrace, Aston, Warwickshire, England
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
House number 11
Category Census, land & surveys
Street Charles Arthur Street Poplar Terrace
Subcategory Census
Parish Aston
Collections from Great Britain, England

Deaths Mar 1907 (>99%)
DOVEY James 76 Aston 6d 294

Henry POWELL 1840(ish) Brockweir / Woolaston/ St Briavels (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 15:00:06 +0000

The Brockweir / Hewelsfield is become consistent

Upton Bishop / Crow hill is another consistency

The 1841 age is a rounding directive for adult ages given to the enumerator
other ages do tend to vary so Im not too worried by those

Elizabeth is a WHITE and some of the children i.e. Priscilla are using it in later life

I suspect there is no marriage between POWELL and WHITE ( again not uncommon)

Henry POWELL 1840(ish) Brockweir / Woolaston/ St B (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 14:22:37 +0000

I think the most difficult part with the 1841 and 1861 census is the age discrepancy. I know people could embellish or gain years as time went on especially to keep marriages seeming more "proper", but I think the big question is still, "is the Henry on the 1841 census in Brockweir the same Henry on the 1861 census in Lydney. Also, I saw on the 1861 census that Charles White is listed as "G G Son" would that even imply great grandson? Kind of cool to see that Henry was a distillery laborer!

On the 1851 census via Ancestry. Henry is in Lydbrook, East Dean within the Parish of Holy Trinity. Info as follows:

John Powell - 60- birth location Crow Hill, Hereford

Elizabeth Powell - 60- birth location is given as Aylburton, Glos, on the 1841 it said Risca in Wales

John- hard to make out, but looks like 18? birth place is Hillersland, Glos

Henry- again hard to make out, but looks like 11, birth location os Hewelsfield (this seems somewhat consistent across documents..)

Emma White- again, why is White the surname? Looks like it could say granddaughter, 10 years old? Maybe this is the mother of Charles White from the 1861 census?

This one is doing my head in guys! Do we have the same Henry? or is this a different family altogether with similar location/age.. Seems that John and Elizabeth in particular go from being born in about 1800 to 1793 and 1795 respectively..

Henry POWELL 1840(ish) Brockweir / Woolaston/ St B (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 14:03:15 +0000

Any ideas why a kid wouldn't take the paternal name? Does Henry show as Henry White on the 1841 census? I'll look on Ancestry. Also, the grandson is peculiar to me... could Elizabeth have had children before she married John? I DID notice they were a bit more advanced in age when Henry was born..

Henry POWELL 1840(ish) Brockweir / Woolaston/ St Briavels (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 09:51:48 +0000

yes I guess he is a contender too (lots of contradictions to plough through)

Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
POWELL Henry WHITE 1840 Forest of Dean Chepstow, Lydney 2 3

1851 Lydbrook ( nr Joys Green ?)
John Powell Head Married Male 60 1791 Labourer Crow Hill, Herefordshire, England
Elizabeth Powell Wife Married Female 60 1791 Domestic duties Hail Burton Gloucestershire, England Deaf
John Powell Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Labourer Hillersland West Dean -
Henry Powell Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Labourer Ewersfield Gloucestershire, England
Emma White Grand daughter Unmarried Female 10 1841 Attending school Ewersfield Gloucestershire, England

Year: 1851
Month: Dec
Day: 10
Grooms_Surname: DOVEY
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: 20
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Butcher
Grooms_Residence: Common Grove
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: DOVEY
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Butcher
Brides_Surname: WHITE
Brides_Forenames: Priscilla
Brides_Age: 29
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Bicknor Court
Brides_Fathers_Surname: WHITE
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Singlewoman
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: 1851 Nov 23 30 Dec 7
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Tho[ma]s Taylor
Witness_2: Ann Taylor
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John Burdon
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Banns are in P138 IN 1/10 page 63.
Register_Reference: P138 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 27
Parish_Chapel: English Bicknor

1861 Lydbrook
John Powell Head Married Male 68 1793 Groom Upton Bishop, Herefordshire, England ( Crow Hill is nearby)
Elizabeth Powell Wife Married Female 66 1795 - Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales
Henry Powell Son Unmarried Male 21 1840 ...labourer West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Charles White Grandson - Male 2 1859 - Herefordshire, England

1871 Yorkley West Dean
Henry Powell Head - Male 28 1843 Labourer Woolaston, Gloucestershire,
Esther Powell Wife - Female 22 1849 - West Dean, Gloucestershire,
Harry Powell Son - Male 2 1869 - Whitecroft, Gloucestershire,
William Powell Son - Male 0 1871 - Pillowell, Gloucestershire,

Possible given ages all over the place

Year: 1866
Month: Mar
Day: 21
Surname: POWELL
Forenames: John
Residence: Lydbrook
Age_at_death: 78 years
Officiating_Minister: Henry T. Hoitt Incumbent
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P208 IN 1/11
Page_No: 30
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

mpowell831 — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 17:39:58 +0000

So in the 1841 Census in Brockweir there's an 8 month old named Henry. in 1861, there's a 21 year old named Henry in Lydbrook. Again, different parts of the Forest. But the death certificate I've seen commonly associated with Henry is he was born in 1840 in Hewelsfield, which makes sense for Brockweir. I know a relative close to me here in the States went back to the Forest and mentioned Ruardean/Mitcheldean which seems close to Lydbrook... maybe this is our man?

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 17:33:55 +0000

Hi Awre/Blakeney up to Whitecroft / Yorkley is 4 or 5 miles so still local

yes families tended to "stay put" but work was a powerful pull certainly within the area, and then further afield to the Welsh, Staffordshire, Nottinghamshire and Yorkshire coal fields - or across the Pond......

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

mpowell831 — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 17:25:15 +0000

I DO know that the Powells eventually ended up in the Whitecroft area of the Forest. Based on some research I've done, it seems like the Forest at that time was extremely localized and even pursuing a wife/husband from another village was looked down upon. I know Awre is about the edge of the Forest, correct? Would it be conceivable for a family to move across the Forest? Particularly for work? I know for a fact they were all colliers and continued to mine coal here after a few emigrated to the United States. I know mines dried up as well and eventually my great-great grandfather's brother William ended up settling in Wales. I wish there was more of a clue but we might have to go with hunches for nowl

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 17:02:06 +0000

Its a suspicion - there is a Birth record for a Henry with no former name for the mother given.

Is Henry the son of Hester/Esther Sparrow POWELL ?
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
POWELL Henry 1842 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 3 488

1841 Blakeney with Awre
Samuel Powell Male 50 1791 Gloucestershire, England
Molly Powell Female 45 1796 Gloucestershire, England
Esther Powell Female 15 1826 Gloucestershire, England
James Powell Male 20 1821 Gloucestershire, England

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

mpowell831 — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 16:37:48 +0000

Also, we saying that Henry's mother was a Hesther then?

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

mpowell831 — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 16:36:31 +0000

Thanks for this! Kind of a bummer we hit a wall. I'm going to try to put Samuel as his grandfather in Ancestry and see if anything presents itself. Thanks again for all your help!

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:24:54 +0000

Samuel 1790 is the father of Hester, and grandfather to Henry 1842

Henry's marriage entry does refer to a John as his father - I cannot spot a likely candidate in the right area for him ;-(

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

mpowell831 — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 20:37:37 +0000

So is there some confusion with Henry's father? With the marriage to Esther Beach it shows his father's name as John. However, later on it looks like there's a Samuel Powell with a son Henry. I think I was told once before that Henry's father was John and married a Caroline Bird, but the records you show mention an uncle James. Do you have an opinion on it either way? Thank you so much for doing all of this.

Henry POWELL 1842 (ish) (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 14:14:08 +0000

gets a tad sketchy prior to 1861

1891 Hawkwell Row
Henry Powell Head Married Male 46 1845 Coal miner St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England
Esther Powell Wife Married Female 42 1849 - Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Henry Powell Son Single Male 22 1869 Coal miner Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Milson Powell Son Single Male 19 1872 Coal miner Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Elizabeth Powell Daughter Single Female 16 1875 - Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Thomas Powell Son - Male 13 1878 Scholar Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Frederick Powell Son - Male 10 1881 Scholar East Dean
Clara Powell Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar East Dean
Ada Powell Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar East Dean
Lily Powell Daughter - Female 3 1888 - East Dean

1881 Aston Bridge
Henry Powell Head Married Male 37 1844 Coal miner Gloucestershire, England
Esther Powell Wife Married Female 34 1847 - West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Harry Powell Son Single Male 12 1869 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
William Powell Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Milson Powell Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Powell Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Powell Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Albert Powell Son Single Male 0 1881 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1871
Henry Powell Head - Male 28 1843 Labourer Woolaston, Gloucestershire,
Esther Powell Wife - Female 22 1849 - West Dean, Gloucestershire,
Harry Powell Son - Male 2 1869 - Whitecroft, Gloucestershire,
William Powell Son - Male 0 1871 - Pillowell, Gloucestershire,

Year 1868
Month Jun
Day 21
Grooms Surname POWELL
Grooms Forenames Henry
Grooms Age 24
Groom Condition Batchelor
Grooms Occupation Collier
Grooms Residence Whitecroft
Grooms Fathers Surname Powell
Grooms Fathers Forenames John
Grooms Fathers Occupation Labourer
Brides Surname BEACH
Brides Forenames Esther
Brides Age 20
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation [not stated]
Brides Residence Whitecroft
Brides Fathers Surname Beach
Brides Fathers Forenames William
Brides Fathers Occupation Labourer
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark both mark
Witness 1 mark of Mary Beach
Witness 2 Henry Gunter
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister Jo[hn] Jo[seph] Elsworth incumbent
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P245 IN 1/21
Page Number 87
Parish Chapel Parkend

1851 Blakeney with Awre
Samuel Powell Head Married Male 61 1790 Labourer Newnham, Gloucestershire,
Mary Powell Wife Married Female 59 1792 - Awre, Gloucestershire,
Elizabeth Powell Daughter Unmarried Female 32 1819 - Awre, Gloucestershire,
Hester Powell Daughter Unmarried Female 27 1824 - Awre, Gloucestershire,
Henry Powell Grand son Unmarried Male 9 1842 - Awre, Gloucestershire,
Mary Ann Powell Grand daughter - Female 3 1848 - Awre, Gloucestershire,

Uncle James marrying Caroline

Year: 1846
Month: Jul
Day: 23
Grooms_Surname: POWELL
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Blakeney
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Powell
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: BIRD
Brides_Forenames: Caroline
Brides_Age: full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Residence: Blakeney
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Bird
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Dier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Thomas James
Witness_2: Elizabeth James
Officiating_Minister: J. H. Malpas Vicar
Event: Marriage
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 47
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1823
Month: Feb
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: POWELL
Child_Forenames: Hester Sparrow
Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Mothers_Forenames: Molly
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Blakeney
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: C P N Wilton Sub Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P50 IN1/1
Page_Number: 65
Parish_Chapel: Blakeney

Year: 1821
Month: [not stated]
Day: 0
Parents_Surname: POWELL
Child_Forenames: James
Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Mothers_Forenames: Molly
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Blakeney
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: W H White Sub Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Dates not stated but falls between 24 March and 11 April
Register_Reference: P50 IN1/1
Page_Number: 51
Parish_Chapel: Blakeney

Year: 1817
Month: Dec
Day: 11
Grooms_Surname: POWELL
Grooms_Forenames: Samuel
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Residence: Newnham
Brides_Surname: SPARROW
Brides_Forenames: Molly
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Residence: Awre
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both Sign
Witness_1: Hester Jones James
Witness_2: Samuel Blewitt
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 16
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Year: 1792
Month: Jan
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: POWELL
Child_Forenames: Samuel
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Molly
Mothers_Surname: nee](Matthews Spinste]r)
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar & Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: [1]S[on] [2]b[or]n Dec[embe]r 19 1791
Notes: Blakeney Chapel
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 467
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Molly pet name for Mary

A possible :-
Year: 1785
Month: Aug
Day: 29
Grooms_Surname: POWEL
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Residence: Flaxley
Brides_Surname: MATTHEWS
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Residence: Flaxley
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Chas Rose
Witness_2: Robert Hiller
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Griffith Davies (Clerk)
Event: Marriage
Register_Reference: P145 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 21
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley