Forest of Dean FHT Forum - 1939 Register help please

1939 Register help please (reply)

Rtaylor — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:03:32 +0000

Hi. The people you are searching for are my maternal Grandparents. They were Albert and Mary Ellen Butler. Albert was on the run from the police so went under the name of Stevens for a while. Stevens is his Grandmothers maiden name. This was Mary Ellen’s second marriage. Mary Ellen was known as Nelly to family and friends. She was Worcester born and bred, but of Irish descent. I have a copy of her birth certificate somewhere which I will try to dig out. I think her first husband had the last name Kelly and they lived in Dolday Worcester. Any information on her marriages would be appreciated.

1939 Register help please (reply)

Coxy10 — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 18:11:44 +0000

Hello my grandparents were butler I think all the people you mention are my family. Are you a relative

1939 Register help please (reply)

shepway — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 16:02:24 +0000

What information do you have on Mary E Stevens? She is proving to be very elusive.

Mike

1939 Register help please (reply)

Arrowhead — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 15:52:11 +0000

Cheers Mike that's useful information. Thanks

1939 Register help please (reply)

Arrowhead — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 15:51:39 +0000

Thanks probinson!

1939 Register help please (reply)

shepway — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 14:41:42 +0000

Since posting the above I have traced the BUTLER family in the 1911 Census as follows:
1911 Census:
Name Relation to Head Birth Date Age Gender Marital Status Years Married Occupation Birth Place Address
Samson Stevens Head 1842 69 Male Married Pedlar Hawker Nailsworth, Gloucestershire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth
Lemintina Stevens Wife 1842 69 Female Married 25 Hawkesbury, Gloucestershire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth
Adolphus Butler Son-in-law 1883 28 Male Married 10 Pedlar Hawker Swindon, Wiltshire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth
Dora Butler Daughter 1884 27 Female Married Bosbury, Herefordshire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth
Alfred Butler Grandson 1905 6 Male Randwick, Gloucestershire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth
Lily Butler Granddaughter 1907 4 Female Horsley, Gloucestershire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth
Albert Butler Grandson 1909 2 Male Ruscombe, Gloucestershire New Road, Horsley, Nailsworth

From this you will see that Mary E Stevens is not listed and so far I have not been able to find her.

Also found are details of the marriage of Adolphus Butler to Dora Stephens:
First name(s) Dora
Last name Stephens
Age 22
Marriage year 1902
Marriage date 1902
Marriage place Bosbury
Spouse's first name(s) Adolphus
Spouse's last name Butler
Spouse's birth year 1881
Spouse's birth date 1881
Residence Bosbury, Herefordshire, England
Father's first name(s) Sampson
Father's last name Stephens
Spouse's father's last name Butler
Spouse's father's first name(s) Arkless (Archelaus?)
County Herefordshire
Country England
Record set Herefordshire Marriages

and the burial of Dora at Cinderford:
Year: 1953
Month: Jan
Day: 23
Surname: BUTLER
Forenames: Dora
Residence: Crump Meadow
Age_at_death: 75 years
Officiating_Minister: Tom T Haines Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: 6/53 written in margin
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/16
Page_No: 65
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John

Mike

1939 Register help please (reply)

shepway — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 17:46:51 +0000

It would appear that Mary and others listed with her were members of the Travelling Community. Listed below Mary is Dolphus Butler born 14 December 1875 and when conducting a search on Ancestry I found that Adolphus Butler aged 38 enlisted in the Gloucestershire Regiment in December 1914. The Short Service Attestation Form names his wife and children including Albert. Details are as follows:
Wife: Dora Stephens and date of marriage: 21 September 1902
From FreeBMD:
Marriages Sep 1902
Butler Adolphus Ledbury 6a 1016
Stephens Dora Ledbury 6a 1016

Children:
Alfred born 26 March 1908 at Randwick, Gloucestershire
Lily born 1906 at Horsley,Gloucestershire
Albert born 21 March 1909 Whiteshill (Date of birth quoted in 1939 register is 21 March 1910)
Adolphus born at Horsley, Gloucestershire (no date given)
Gilbert born 14 November 1914 at Horsley, Gloucestershire.

The form states that evidence for births of Alfred, Albert and Gilbert provided in Baptism Certificates but I have been only been able to trace one of them as follows:

Name: Alfred Butler
Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 26 Mar 1905
Baptism Date: 28 Apr 1905
Baptism Place: Randwick, Gloucestershire, England
Father: Adolphus Butler Occupation :Clothes Peg Maker
Mother: Dora Butler

Mary is described as a Single person and her date of birth is given as 27 October 1900 which is before the marriage of Adolphus and Dora which suggests she may be Dora's daughter and would explain the name Butler being quoted above.

Adolphus Butler is listed in various Electoral Registers and his abode given as Crump Meadow Wood, Cinderford which was a well known campsite for travellers.

A suggested marriage for Mary has been provided in the previous posting.

There are some websites devoted to Research of the Travelling Community:
http://gypsygenealogy.co.uk
http://rtfhs.org.uk

Mike

1939 Register help please (reply)

probinson — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 17:25:32 +0000

I see there is someone called Butler living at the same address in the 1939 register. His age would suggest he wasn't who she married but could be the father of the groom. There's three blanked out entries at the same address so he could be one of those. I can't find a marriage though.

The writing on the left column refers to her second marriage (same pen and hand writing). The last character of the date isn't clear to me but I found a marriage of Mary E Stevens to John R Elliott in Q1 of 1954. Marriage was in Ilkeston, Derbyshire. The references (3a/877) don't match what's written in the register though.

Not sure if that helps.

1939 Register help please (reply)

Arrowhead — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:51:08 +0000

Hi, The person is called Mary E and then the dittos relate to the name Stevens. The names written above are Butler and Elliott. Apparently the QIA is the code for Worcester.

1939 Register help please (reply)

probinson — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:41:41 +0000

Certainly looks like a date plus a reference of some sort.

If you would be willing to share the details of the individual and the names that have been written in, maybe someone else can find marriage details.

1939 Register help please

Arrowhead — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:09:35 +0000

Hi, I have a female individual in the 1939 register that has dittos relating to a surname above but then two other surnames written in different inks above the ditto. I cannot find any marriages that correspond to the surnames. However, there are notes in the left hand side column and I have no idea what these relate to. I think the one is a date but cannot make sense of the rest and it does not seem to be a volume/page reference. Is anyone able to help?
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