Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE

Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

normanelkins — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 04:25:28 +0000

Brenda
It is all beginning to come together for me thanks to your and others help.

Had you noticed that the GRO collators have entered the birth of Samuel under both James and Preest. Using Free BMD, the original records for Samuels birth they also support the suggestion of a multiple birth by MRSBRUSO. For the entry under the PREEST name which follows that of Samuel Preest the consecutive entry is for a Sarah Preest.
So, my understanding is that for the family line of Samuel James it begins with him in 1841 and any other search will be down the Preest line.
It is interesting that Hannah who obviously used her James name to marry Samuel Roberts, kept Samuel 1841 informed of his parentage for him to recognise it at his 1859 marriage. Hannah seems to have had a thing about the name Samuel.
Norman

Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

mrsbruso — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 01:30:54 +0000

Is there any evidence that he was a multiple? It has long been the habit to record the time of birth for any multiple births, as it establishes the birth order.

Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

preest — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:50:49 +0000

Samuel & Sarah Ann JAMES are my great grandparents. This information I have learned from family sources. Since I have been researching the family tree I have discovered that Samuel JAMES was born to his widowed mother, Hannah in 1841. On the 1841 census she is living with her young son Richard with her parents Thomas & Phoebe BAYLIS. I assume that the father's name Samuel PREEST was on the birth certificate because he was in fact the father of Samuel JAMES. Interestingly the time of birth was also shown on the certificate. On this website the burial record of Richard JAMES in 1841 at Bream has a memorandum which states that the widow is Hannah James. The death certificate states that Richard was killed by an accidental blow on the head at 5? pitt, Bream and is signed by MORGAN ELLIS coroner. I hope this helps. Brenda.

Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

normanelkins — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:01:20 +0000

Anthony,
Thanks for your reply and information.
I am glad I am not in a postion of having to adjudicate to legally decide the truth.

Are you saying the Hannah who married Samuel Roberts in 1850 is Samuel James 1841 mother? If so what became of Samuel Preest?
It does look as if the Samuel who married Sarah Ann Morgan in 1859 are one and the same (Samuel 1841). But why did he call himself a James and list his father as a Preest? There is the other Richard James buried in 1841 who fits the bill for being the biological father for Sanmuel 1841.
Anthony, have you any background for the death of this 35 year old Richard James?
I have asked a lot of question but I do find it an intrigueing story.
Norman

Samuel PREEST/Hannah JAMES nee BAYLIS + her family (reply)

m p griffiths — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:01:42 +0000

1851 Census, Bream Woodside

ROBERTS

Samuel - 21 Iron Miner, born Woolaston
Hannah - 31 - born Glos. Frampton
Jane - 3 months born WestDean
William ROBERTS, brother - 26 Coal Miner, born Woolaston
Richard JAMES - Stepson - 12- Iron Miner, born Newland
Samuel JAMES - Stepson - 9 - born Newland

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1861 Census, Glos. Newland
Yorkley Wood

Phebe BAYLIS - Widow - 66 - Stocking Knitter, born Glos. Ashleworth

Sharp/Sheep House - next door

William JAMES - Son, unmarried, age 37, Hallier - born Yorkley

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1851 Census, Newland
Jones's Wood

BAYLIS

Thomas - 55 Ingineer, all born Gloucestershire
Phoebe - 55 - Stocking Knitter
Emma - 16
Annis - 13

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1841 Census, Dean Forest, Ross
Oakenhill

PRIEST

Joseph - 30
Caroline - 30
Edwin - 9
Thomas - 7
Hester - 5
Caroline - 2
Joseph - 8

// next door

transcribed as Pay - but the surname is split - les is written above the name at the top so is BAYLIS

BAYLIS
Thomas - 40
Phoebe - 40
Louisa - 15
William - 14
Elizabeth - 10
Emma - 7
Annis - 2 (FOD records, christening at Parkend - 15 October 1837 - Annis, parents Thomas (Engineer) & Phoebe)
/
Hannah JAMES - 20
Richard JAMES - 2

//
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Quedgley St James

Christening 14 March 1819 - Hannah BAYLISS, parents Thomas & Phoebe

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? Marriage at Hardwicke - 29 October 1818

Thomas BAYLISS/Phoebe HOPKINS

----

????

FOD records

Baptism at Bream - 26 September 1802

Samuel PREEST, parents Thomas & Sarah

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1871 Census Bream (transcribed as PRIEST) but written as PREEST

Samual - 71 - Iron Miner
Helen - daughter - age 18
Lonney - daughter - age 10

1861 Census, Newland,

Bream

(transcribed as BREEST

Samual - 52 - Proprietor of Houses
Sarah - 40
Helen - 6
Levina - 11 months
Olga BOBBINS - Niece - 15

1851 Census, (transcribed as Sannie Friest)

Bream

PRIEST

Samual - 44, Proprietor of Houses, all born Glos. Newland
Sarah - 30
Samual - 6 months
Matilda A BOBBINS - Grand Niece - 10
Clemantina BOBBIN - Grand Niece - 7
Nolga N (transcribed as) - Grand Niece - 5

---

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1841 Census, Bream

transcribed as BREEST

Samuel PREEST - age 35, Ind. born in County

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National Probate Wills and Adminstration

11 August 1874

PREEST Samual (effects under £100)

The Will of Samuel PREEST late of Bream in the Parish of Newland in the County of Gloucester Gentleman, who died 23 June 1874 at Bream was proved at the Principal Registry by John PREEST and Samuel PREEST both of Bream, Miners, the Nephews the Executors.

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FOD records, Burial at Bream - 26 June 1874

Samuel PREEST, of Bream age 74

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Sarah PREEST of Bream was sentenced Epiphany - 1833 - larcency by Servant (6 weeks)

Gloucesteshire Records Database

Sarah PREEST - 10 December 1832, Bream, Servant, age 20 (could be the daughter of Joseph & Emma christened in Bream 1812)

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Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

preest — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:03:56 +0000

I have an interest in your JAMES/BAYLIS.HANNAH BAYLIS married RICHARD JAMES at Newland on 30 March 1837, I have a copy of the marriage certificate. A son,Richard was born to them in 1838 who was baptised at BREAM 14 October 1838. Richard, the father, was killed in an accident at a Pit on 3 September 1838 at the age of 25. (I have a copy of the death certificate, he was an iron miner). On 28 July 1841 SAMUEL PREEST JAMES was born to HANNAH JAMES formerly BAYLIS widow. I have a copy of the birth certificate and the father is shown as SAMUEL PREEST.
HANNAH married SAMUEL ROBERTS at PARKEND on 28 July 1850 and had 4 more children.
I know that RICHARD JAMES' father was also RICHARD and occupation on marriage certificate was miner but it is such a common name that I am unable to pinpoint for certain his family. I hope this information is of some help to you.

Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

normanelkins — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:13:42 +0000

M.P.G

Many thanks for your interest and support.

Not sure I understand the full meaning of your findings yet.

The registration of Samuel Preest Preest in 1841 with a mother previously James and Baylis does seem to suggest a recent widowhood. But why call her son PREEST?

There is an 1859 Parkend marriage of a Samuel JAMES and his father is given as Samuel PREEST.

The jumble of surrounding date includes a marriage of Hannnah Baylis to Richard James in 1837, the burial of a Richard James aged 35 in 1841, a Hannah James aged 20 with a 2year old son Richard in the 1841 census (What if Samuel was born to Hannah after the 1841 census) and a the marriage of a Hannah James to a Roberts in 1850.
I can certainly carry Samuel back into this clutter but can't convincingly attach him to a father.
Am I confusing myself and misssing something?

Norman

Richard & Ann JAMES children (1851 Census) (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:11:06 +0000

Gloucestershire BDM

Birth Reg: Sarah PREEST - father's surname: PREEST, mother's maiden name FRANKLIN - FOD Coleford 1841

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1851 Census, Glos East Dean

Bradley Hill

FRANKLIN

George - 31 - Blacksmith, born Bream
Mary - 26 - born East Dean
Thomas JAMES - son - age 5
Richd JAMES- nephew, age 17 - born Bream
Thomas JAMES - 15 - born Bream
Martha JAMES - 9 Niece - born Bream
Ann NELMES - unnmarried, visitor, age 19 born Glos
Elizabeth NELMES - ditto, age 15 born Glos. EastDean

FOD records - Marriage at Parkend - 10 December 1848

George FRANKLYN - age 28, Bachelor, Blacksmith of Blakeney Hill
father: Joseph FRANKLYN, Wood Collier

married

Mary JAMES - age 24, Spinster, Blakeney Hill
Father: William JAMES, occupation, Squarer

by banns

Mark of Hannah GRIFFITHS, R STERREY

Richard James/BAYLIS/PREECE (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:09:19 +0000

Norman

The baptism re: Samuel Priest JAMES - mother Hannah (Widow) 15 August 1841 at Bream

If you look at Gloucestershire BDM

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

we Have

Child Surname : PREEST

Child Forename: Samuel Preest

Father Surname: PREEST

Mother Surname: JAMES

Mother's Former Name: BAYLIS

1841 Forest of Dean, Monmouth Coleford

also if you check Gloucestershire BDM (Marriages)

Ann JAMES married Amos PREECE, Forest of Dean Register Office, Monmouth 1845

1851 Census, West Dean - Bream Eaves

ANCESTRY transcribed as PRUST

Amos - 40 - born Glos Newland
Ann - 27
Sarah - 8
Samuel - 5
William - 2
Naomi - 3 months
James SMITH visitor, 33 - unmarried, born Hereford

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again using Gloucestershire BDM - you will find

PREEST/JAMES

Samuel - 1843, Samuel 1846, and William John

Amos and Ann were next door neighbours in 1841

1841 Glos. Dean Forest,

Oakwood

JAMES

Richard - 30 - Miner, born in County
Ann - 30
Richard - 6 - FOD records, christening, at Bream - 12 July 1835, Richard & Ann (Bream's Green)
Thomas - 4
Maria - 2

next door transcribed as PROOST

Amos - 30 - Quarryman - born in County
Suzana - 20 ** FOD records, Burial at Parkend, Susan PREEST, Oakwood Hill age 27 (29 February 1844)
Harriet - 5
Elizabeth - 3

FOD records, have the marriage of Amos PRIEST to Susannah JONES at Newland - 22 February 1836

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?

FOD records, christening at Bream - 19 December 1813

Richard JAMES - parents Richard (Coal Miner) & Ann

Richard James c 1806 Possibly From Newland

normanelkins — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:24:54 +0000

I would appreciate help in testing the following James family grouping.

A Richard James of full age married Hannah Baylis at Newland in 1837. In 1841 a widowed Hannah James was at the baptism of son Samuel James at Bream. Also in 1841 a 35 year old Richard James was buried at Newland.
Two questions arise are these a family and does anyone know the roots of Richard?
Regards
Norman Elkins