Forest of Dean FHT Forum - SKYNNER, Thomas - Thanks to all

SKYNNER, Thomas - Thanks to all (reply)

SkinnerDS — Sun, 14 Aug 2011 23:29:05 +0000

Thank you to everyone that put effort and time into helping me with my search. I've received some fantastic leads & advice I wouldn't have otherwise found if I had not found site. Keep up the good work & thanks again!

SKYNNER/POWLES (MEEK) (reply)

m p griffiths — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 14:32:16 +0000

On the FOD records, when Thomas SKYNNER married Ann POWLES - 17 February 1811 in Newent, one witness was Philip POWLES.

A Philip POWLES married Mary JONES in Newent - 27 February 1781, then as a Widower, married Elizabeth WELLING - 4 August 1807 - and had more children - if you use the Advance Search - these are on FOD records inc POWLS/POWLES Hannah, 1807, Mary 1809, Patience 1812, Job 1817 - Hester 1814

* previous thread on Job

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=1837

1841 Census, Newent, District 10

Phillip POWLES - 80 Ag. Lab - born in County (Burial Newent - 9 July 1841, Newent, age 84, - address Gorstley Common)
Elizabeth - 70 (Burial Newent - 10 February 1847, age 75 - address Gorstley Common)

SKYNNER, Thomas - Note for JEFFF (reply)

SkinnerDS — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 01:32:58 +0000

Hi Jeff, My apologies for the flurry of messages today, I've been doing a lot of research. I tried to follow your thinking about Thomas's "Father" being Thomas Skynner, bap. 1784, parents Francis & Lucy (record ID 70721) but I think it may not be the one.

I found burial records for Francis & Lucy Skynner out of Pauntly but curiously enough the dates of burial are a day apart, July 7 & 8 1799. I then located a burial record for Thomas Skynner who passed July 1st, 1799 in Pauntley. All listings appear on the same registry reference and page numbers. I believe this poor family got hammered with something at the beginning of July in 1799. Regardless, this Thomas could not have been the father of Thomas Powles baptized in 1808, married to Anne 1811 if he's passed in 1799. Thanks for looking into it though, I really appreciate the effort.

I'm now thinking the parents might be William & Maria (probably Mary) in the Thomas Skynner bapt. record from 1803.

I also found a burial record for Thomas Skynner on may 3, 1820, died age 48. He could also be the father of Thomas born July 1808. The marriage record mentions Ann Powles was a spinster (woman of age) so maybe they married in their later years, after having Thomas in 1808.

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice (reply)

SkinnerDS — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:53:57 +0000

Confirmations! I'm fairly sure... lol

I have a source that mentions Thomas Sr.'s Christening as July 24, 1803. Therefore Record ID 72426 is correct with Christening on July 24, 1808. Ann Powles is his mother. That also confirms the marriage. Thanks for the help to date everyone (thx shepway for the listing).

Now to see if Record ID 70721 might be his father.

SKYNNER, Thomas - 1841 census (Will etc) (reply)

SkinnerDS — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:07:22 +0000

Holy Info! Thanks mpgriffiths. I'll see if I can comment/answer all your points.

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I think the info about Thomas burial, Ann burial, baptism & Hanna all have merit. Seems to line up with advice from Jefff. I'll explore those.
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I'll contact GRO for a copy of that will for Thomas (1820)
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Thanks for the Eliza info, I'll explore.
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I have that exact same 1841 Newert Census. The 1852 Canadian Census (http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e093/e002307321.pdf) shows all the children listed in the UK one (except William, I suspect passed on the trip or passed before traveling. They have an additional 4 Children in Canada. With this info and ages listed in 1952 I was trying to find immigration records for around 1842-44 but can't find records (see thread regarding Ancestry link)
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Glouc BDM is correct. I have records: Jane Elizabeth Smith, b. 1809 England, m. May 17 1830 in Newent, Gloucester, England, d. June 17, 1876 in Adamsville, Quebec, buried June 19, 1876 in Adamsville, Quebec.
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Ann Skynner/Skinner could be linked to shepway's 2nd point (Aug 12 at 8:28)
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Not sure about Richard. My records have only 1 Richard, son of Thomas Powles, b 1835
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I believe the family left England in 1842-44 so any census after that might not be relevant.
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Ann Skinner - My records of Anne Skinner, daughter of Thomas Powles place her 11 in 1852

SKYNNER, Thomas b1808 (reply)

SkinnerDS — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:40:55 +0000

Wow Jeff, thanks for the great info. The out of wedlock information is especially interesting and might be why I've had trouble connecting the dots. With the way you break it down it might make sense that Record 70721 (Thomas Bapt. 1784) is Thomas' (married to Jane) father. I'll put this at the top of my selection list until something else shoots it down.

I'll also follow your lead on Dymock. My name is actually Dave Skinner, it'd be funny the Dave you mentioned was related.

SKYNNER, previous threads (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:07:08 +0000

Have you seen this prior thread re Dymock ?.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=13320

As saids earlier Dymock is very much "your" territory. I wonder if Dave Skinner is a relative of yours ?.
He's a regular visitor to the forum so may see this thread soon, or you could emaill him direct "off-forum" by clicking on his username icon and following the email link.
Good luck.

SKYNNER, Thomas b1808 (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:21:54 +0000

Hi again,
wrt to your earlier query re a child's middlename, in this instance as you can see the Baptism of Thomas 1808 is marked "base-born" ie "out of wedlock".
Although this PR is seemingly deliberately vague by a discreet Minister, the clues are there; no father's name is directly/clearly recorded at all in this case, so we're unsure as to which parent is Powles, although the fact the mother is named (and possibly only parent present at Baptism) does suggest that Powles is her surname. In such Baptisms it seems quite normal for the child to take the father's first name, perhaps as a reminder to others as to who is responsible(not just physically) for the child in later years ?. This choice & use of names is not unusual for Baptisms for baseborn children, just as it is for the child to subsequently use the mother's maiden name as their middle name.
Happily in this case the couple do marry a few years later, so "formalising" the Powles Skinner name.
I wonder if father Thomas was already married in 1808 ?

Searching this site for Thomas Skynners (tick the "soundex" to get most spelling variations) gives 70 odd alone, most Baptisms sadly few marriages, as said most seem to be the Newent area (Ledbury, Taynton, Oxenhall, also Ross etc etc).

I suggest "Father" Thomas may be:

Record_ID: 70721
Entry_Number: 1048
Year: 1784
Month: Oct
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: SKYNNER
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Lucy
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: John Foley Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 28
Parish_Chapel: Newent
Soundex: S560

SKYNNER, Thomas - 1841 census (Will etc) (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:42:00 +0000

Burial at Newent - 3 May 1820 - Thomas SKINNER, age 48, c 1773 - address: Newent Town and Gloucestershire Records Office database, has a Will for a Thomas SKYNNER, dated 1820 - Yoeman of Newent - which may hold clues etc.

and an Ann SKINNER burial at Newent (address Town of Newent) - 24 June 1821, age 36 c1785 -

? baptism at Newent - 22 March 1789, Anne POWEL - parents Reuben & Sarah

There is a Hannah POWELS age 20 - at Newent working as a Female Servant for Henry PAINTER (1841 census)

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Gloucestershire Record Office website gives will give the information required to send for a copy of Thomas SKYNNER's will (if needed)

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/search.aspx

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When Thomas Powles SKYNNER married Jane SMITH in 1830 - one witness was Eliza SKINNER - and there is a baptism at Newent on 28 July 1811 of an Eliza SKINNER, parents Thomas & Ann - so probably his sister

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For FOD members who don't have access to Ancestry - this is the family of the 1841 Census Newent (adults ages were normally rounded up to the nearest 5 years)

Culvert Street (FOD records have Ann & Thomas SKYNNER, having a Son *Richard 8 August 1813 - Culvert Street, Newent)

1841 Census, Newent, Culvert Street

SKYNNER

Thomas - 30 - Collar m (all born in County)
Jane - 30
Thomas - 10 (SKYNNER) - Newent - 16 February 1831
Harriet - 8 (SKYNNER) - Newent - 14 October 1832
Richard - 6 (POWLES SKYNNER) - 30 January 1835
Ann - 15 (who are Ann's parents?) **
John - 4 (SKYNNER) - 25 December 1836 - father Thomas POWLES SKYNNER
William - 3 (SKYNNER) - 30 July 1838

(what does the 1851 Canada Census say?) are there any children born in Canada?

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Looking at Gloucestershire BDM

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

SKINNER- mother's maiden name SMITH

There is William listed - and an Ann in 1840

and no children after that

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There is a baptism at Newent of Ann SKYNNER/SKINNER - 29 May 1818 - parents Thomas & Ann

1841 Census, Newent, Church Street

Richard SKINNER age 26 - M/S- working for William HOLLAND, Innkeeper

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1851 Census, Newent Berry Bar Street

Transcribed as SKMNER

Richard - 34 - Horsekeeper Groom, born Newent - his Will is also on Gloucestershire Records Office database
Ann - (wife) age crossed through
Ellen - 4 (Gloucestershire BDM - mother's maiden name BISCO)

Gloucestershire BDM - Marriage at Glos. St Mary de Lobe 1842 - Richard SKINNER and Ann BISCOE

1861 Census, Newent

Ann SKINNER, Married age 43, Schoolmistress
Ellen SKINNER - 14 (no sign of Richard)

1876 Directory of Newent, list Miss Ellen SKINNER, Bury Bar Lane, Dressmaker

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1851, Newent Culvert Street,

Ann SKINNER - unmarried - 32 born Newent
Cornelius SKINNER - son - age 3 - born Hereford Aston Ingham (Gloucestershire BDM - Newent)

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice (reply)

shepway — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:28:09 +0000

In 1811 we have this marriage:
Year: 1811
Month: Feb
Day: 17
Grooms_Surname: SKYNNER
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newent
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: POWLES
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newent
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: John Bowkett
Witness_2: Mark of Philip Powles
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 94
Parish_Chapel: Newent

The 1851 Census return suggests that Thomas Powles Skynner was born c1807 and therefore the following baptism is the most likely one for Thomas:
Year: 1808
Month: Jul
Day: 24
Parents_Surname: POWLES
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Base s
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Newent

Good luck in your search
Mike

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice (reply)

SkinnerDS — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:08:43 +0000

One additional request if possible. I'm trying to locate the family's immigration to Canada and at the same time not have to make a 15th trip to the archives to use Ancestry. I think I may have found something but I was wondering if it'd be outta line to ask someone with access to Ancestry to look it up for me. Here's the search link, I'm specifically interested in Thomas P. Skinner:

http://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pili354&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&am...

Thanks in advance.

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice (reply)

SkinnerDS — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 03:54:25 +0000

Thanks Jeff. I'll keep all those tips in mind and I'll take a peak at the SunGreen site you mentioned. Like you said, hopefully someone else will view this and have additional information.

The transcript you listed is for Anne, daughter of the Thomas I'm trying to find the father for. I found a few of his children's baptism records on here. What a great site.

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 01:58:32 +0000

Using the Advanced search facility for this sites PRs:

Record ID 138296
Entry Number 1211
Year 1840
Month Nov
Day 12
Parents Surname SKINNER
Child Forenames Anne
Fathers Forenames Thomas
Mothers Forenames Jane
Mothers Surname
Residence Culvert [sic] Street
Occupation Saddler
Officiating Minister J Archibald
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P225 IN1/5
Page Number 152
Parish Chapel Newent

This is just one of hundreds of Skynner PRs I can see on this site dating far back. I see many are from Kempley, Dymock etc, all near to Newent in the north of the Forest.
Good luck !

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 01:50:09 +0000

Welcome to this great site !
First welldone on doing the work yourself first, many dont seem to want to bother.
That said theres plenty here who will help you further, some experts and some just keen newcomers. Also please read the FAQ at top of thepage.
Re your basic questions:

1. I've only been researching this year, mostly thro this site.I dont think theres any rules whatsoever about who a child is named after. I dont think in Britain its at all normal to use Senior & Junior as it is in the US and perhaps Canada too.
I named my son William, after my father, and his before him & so on. We did so to preserve the tradition, much to my mother's surprise & delight. I guess this was the same way back. From studying several family lines on this site, its so common if not the norm to repeat first names down the line, certainly thro the C19th. My son's middlename is the same as mine, I guess thats a common idea too.
In my experience before the C18th, this perpetuating of Christian names often occurred without having middlenames either (or at least they wernt recorded as Baptism records) - so making our task that must trickier.!?.
So in essence, anything goes, in your case Thomas it seems. In the C19 century there seems a smaller choice of likely names, probably after royalty etc, and occasionally Biblical ones; whereas nowadays we have a much wider variety of possible names to choose from dependant upon our favourite TV or sports stars perhaps, such as the Kylies (Neighbours) and the like, as well as the traditional ones.

2. Its quite normal for census records to show people getting "younger" than they really are !, the returns were purely based on verbal replies without checking later. Also in those days, especially in rural areas and before the arrival of railways and factories etc, people's lives wernt governedby or so concernedabout timekeeping and dates on a calendar, they lived by the seasons and the sunlight. Accurate records of birthdates just wern't needed so less focus was placed on remembering such things.

I hope this helps, good luck with your research, I'm confident you'll receive more help. Dont forget you can search this forum, someone else may have already done your work, also see all the old documents, photos, newspaper articles etc.

ATB Jeff

SKYNNER, Thomas - Need some genealogy advice

SkinnerDS — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 00:18:47 +0000

I'm wondering if someone might be able to help me decipher some data I've discovered on this site and possibly help me move up my family tree. I'm somewhat of a rookie genealogist and I'm trying to trace my father's lineage. All the research I've done has led me to this website and I'm at a loss as to where to look next. Referenced Transcripts in my story are listed after it.

I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and I've been to the National Library & Archives for the last three weeks, I've exhausted Ancestry from their PCs, I've been through Censuses from Canada, UK and the US, through Shipping lists, marriage/baptism/burial records. I've also tried GenesReunited, TheGeneoligist, WeRelate, FamilySearch & IGI Batch Numbers (I list these in case a replier might suggest them). Last week I discovered a site called CuriousFox and most if not all recommended coming here.

To try to make a long story short Transcript #1 is as far as I have gone up the tree. I have an 1841 UK Newent Census that lists Thomas Skynner Sr, Jane and family and a 1851 Canadian Census with the same family listed as Skinner. The age of Thomas Sr is listed as 30 in 1841 & 45 in 1852. I think I've narrowed his father down to 2 listings from this site (Transcript #2 & #3) but I'm stuck. Here is my thinking...

1. I've been told "people often gave the surname of the mother (or other ancestor) to their children as a middle name. e.g. John Bloggs marries Ann Brown and they name child Henry Brown Bloggs". With that said I found Transcript #3 but Transcript #1 is a Sr., Can Transcript #1's father be named Thomas if he's already a Sr.?

2. Transcript #2 seems accurate but the age is slightly older than the oldest recorded age of Thomas Sr (Transcript #1) I found in Censuses.

God I hope that made sense LOL. Any help would be appreciated.

Transcript Details #1

Record_ID: 38458
Entry_Number: 286
Year: 1830
Month: May
Day: 17
Grooms_Surname: SKYNNER
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas Powles
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newent
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: SMITH
Brides_Forenames: Jane
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newent
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: William Smith
Witness_2: Eliza Skinner
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: James Archibald Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 96
Parish_Chapel: Newent
Soundex_Groom: S560
Soundex_Bride: S530

Transcript Details #2

Record_ID: 72046
Entry_Number: 1025
Year: 1803
Month: Jul
Day: 31
Parents_Surname: SKYNNER
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Maria
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Wm Beale curate Richard Loveridge John Richardson
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN1/3
Page_Number: 55
Parish_Chapel: Newent
Soundex: S560

Transcript Details #3

Record_ID: 72426
Entry_Number: 351
Year: 1808
Month: Jul
Day: 24
Parents_Surname: POWLES
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Base s
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Newent
Soundex: P420