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<title>Forest of Dean FHT  Forum - Parish/District Boundaries around Lydbrook area</title>
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<title>Parish/District Boundaries around Lydbrook area (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again Sarah,<br />
as far as I'm aware the national boundary between England and Wales in our area hasn't changed, it was and still is the traditional physical one of the River Wye. However what has changed is the local population has increased dramatically due to influx of workers as the industrial revolution &quot;took off&quot;, this affected the Forest as a whole and Lydbrook in particular. As the population expanded so the local government (civic) Districts and Ecclesiastical Parishes changed &amp; multiplied &amp; their various boundaries with them. This makes family history research somewhat confusing, or at least that's what I found. I stand to be corrected but my rough understanding is this: </p>
<p>In the early days say late 1700s, before the population really &quot;exploded&quot;, there was no church at Lydbrook itself, so we need to look at the PRs of churches such as nearby Bicknor, Walford, Ruardean &amp; Newland. Indeed some Lydbrook folk crossed the Wye every Sunday to attend the nearest church at Welsh Bicknor. Lydbrook Church wasn't &quot;opened&quot; until 1851. This general lack of &quot;normal&quot; C of E Churches within the Forest is why the PRs show so many apparently different places of worship &amp; religions, such as the Chapels &amp; Circuits of various Methodists, Baptists, etc; this all confused &amp; intrigued me having been brought up a standard C of E lad with no exposure or knowledge of Dean's rich religious history !<br />
Before this the nearest sizable towns, which had existed for centuries so were the main local &quot;civic centres&quot;, were Westbury On Severn to the east in England, and Monmouth to the West and just inside Wales. </p>
<p>In 1842 the Forest was split into West Dean &amp; East Dean Townships for local government purposes. <a href="http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=1422">http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=1422</a></p>
<p>Hence Lydbrook was now governed from Monmouth just a few miles away and just across the national border, hence the local Census's and BMD records suggest Lydbrook people to be &quot;Welsh&quot;, regardless of their true ancestral roots (altho clearly a lot of the Lydbrook workers may well have come across from nearby Wales, there's certainly a lot of us Jones' there !.)</p>
<p>Subsequently as the population within the Forest continued to grow, and towns such as Coleford expanded and new towns such as Cinderford were created, so the civic boundaries had to change too and new names of Civic Districts came along. At the same time new Churches were being built so new Parishes created.    </p>
<p>The best way I've found to understand this is using the excellent Genuki site<br />
<a href="http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/monmouth.html">http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/monmouth.html</a></p>
<p>And for a good and interesting history of Lydbrook and explanation of the Parish Boundaries <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydbrook">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydbrook</a></p>
<p>I do hope this helps you Sarah ? I must say when I first started in this hobby two years ago, the worst problem for me was trying to know where to lookup my records !? - what with the Forest in general and my dad's &quot;home&quot; area of Lydbrook in particular being located at the junction of two countries, four counties and Parishes &amp; Districts that changed name too often for my liking !!  <br />
This wasn't helped by the fact that my childhood and even later years was in the Eastern side of the Forest, born in Cinderford, often travelling east towards Ross &amp; Gloster etc for shopping trips and visiting relatives. Yes my Gran was in Lydbrook, but I'd not realised this was anywhere near Wales as such. That said, when I applied for my Driving Test in 1980 we had to travel to Monmouth to take it, a hint that Monmouth used to be a far more important centre for local government etc than might appear nowadays. <br />
On t'other side of the coin, my sister lives nr Coleford and married a Coleford chap who, for his shopping and social trips, tended to travel west into Monmouth and beyond where his family background lay.</p>
<p>This makes me even more appreciate our great fortune in having this wonderfull internet site which manages to pull everything together into one central resource, thanks yet again to this site's owners and administrators !</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38034</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 15:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann JONES marries Oliver PHELPS, Monmouth 1878 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe this birth to be the correct one for him.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38029</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38029</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>sarah phelps</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann Jones of Lydbrook (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this information is correct, however I had previously realized from 1851 census that Mary born 1834 was his sister not his future wife.  Thanks for this infomation</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38028</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38028</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>sarah phelps</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann JONES marries Oliver PHELPS, Monmouth 1878 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a church but the Monmouth Register Office</p>
<p>PHELPS Oliver <br />
JONES Martha<br />
 Forest of Dean <br />
Monmouth Register Office   <br />
1878 11 50 </p>
<p>Were they a non conformist family ?</p>
<p><br />
1861 Serridge Lodge<br />
Thos Jones  abt 1827 Witchurch, Herefordshire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire  <br />
 Mary A Jones  abt 1828 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire  <br />
 Martha Jones abt 1856 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire  <br />
 Henry Jones abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire  <br />
 John Jones Tabt 1859 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire  <br />
 Hubert Jones abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire</p>
<p>several possibles for father Thomas including</p>
<p>Year: 1827 <br />
Month: Apr <br />
Day: 8 <br />
Parents_Surname: JONES <br />
Child_Forenames: Thomas <br />
Fathers_Forenames: John <br />
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah <br />
Mothers_Surname:  <br />
Residence: Doward <br />
Occupation: Labourer <br />
Officiating_Minister: George Pyrke Rector <br />
Event: Baptism <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference: AC 76/1 <br />
Page_Number: 47 <br />
Parish_Chapel: Whitchurch</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38027</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38027</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>slowhands</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann Jones marries Oliver Phelps, Monmouth 1878 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Marriage to Oliver June 1878 at a Monmouth Church in Wales.  I think back then the boundaries between England and Wales were different slightly especially when dealing with BMD's in the Lydrook area.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38026</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38026</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>sarah phelps</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann Jones marries Oliver Phelps, Monmouth 1878 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot find Marriage of Martha Jones on this site's PRs, but GlosBMD gives:</p>
<p>Marriage Details<br />
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building   Year Register Entry <br />
PHELPS Oliver JONES Martha Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office   1878 11 50 </p>
<p>ie it was at the nearest Registry Office (I wonder why ?), so NOT a Church PR which is why was not on FoD PRs database.</p>
<p><a href="http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx">http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx</a></p>
<p><br />
Sorry, must go now, happy hunting !</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=37958</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=37958</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann Jones of Lydbrook (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Jeff</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=37957</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=37957</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 22:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>sarah phelps</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann Jones of Lydbrook (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
have you tried searching this site's PRs ?</p>
<p>From there, searched by name, this Baptism</p>
<p>Record_ID: 117204 <br />
Entry_Number: 166 <br />
Year: 1857 <br />
Month: Nov <br />
Day: 1 <br />
Parents_Surname: JONES <br />
Child_Forenames: Martha Ann <br />
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas <br />
Mothers_Forenames: Mary <br />
Mothers_Surname:  <br />
Residence: Upper Lydbrook <br />
Occupation: Woodfeller <br />
Officiating_Minister: Temple Hamilton Chase <br />
Event: Baptism <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference: 20811 <br />
Page_Number: 21 <br />
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook <br />
Soundex: J520 </p>
<p>So parents appear to be Thomas &amp; Mary Jones.</p>
<p>Using the VERY usefull Advanced Search facility (icon at base of Search page), can find these Baptisms which I suspect are all the same family.</p>
<p>1856 JONES Martha, Thomas &amp; Mary Anne, Aston Bridge Lodge, Woodman under the Crown, Lydbrook  (I suspect this Martha died young as the name is repeated)<br />
1857 JONES Henry, Thomas &amp; Mary Anne,   Terridge near Lydbrook, Woodman, Lydbrook <br />
1857 JONES Martha Ann, Thomas &amp; Mary,   Upper Lydbrook, Woodfeller, Lydbrook <br />
1858 JONES John, Thomas &amp; Mary Ann,   Sorridge Lodge, Woodman, Lydbrook  <br />
1860 JONES Hubert, Thomas &amp; Mary Ann,   Serridge Lodge, Woodman, Lydbrook<br />
1862 JONES Anne, Thomas &amp; Mary Anne,   Sorridge Lodge, Forest Keeper, Lydbrook   <br />
1864 JONES Alfred, Thomas &amp; Mary,   Lydbrook, Keeper, Lydbrook<br />
1866 JONES William Thomas, Thomas &amp; Mary Ann,   Serridge Lodge, Woodman, Lydbrook</p>
<p>Again by searching the PRs on this site can find this Marriage, yes the names are common but very few are woodmen,<br />
 <br />
Record ID 64630 <br />
Entry Number 62 <br />
Year 1852 <br />
Month Nov <br />
Day 23 <br />
Grooms Surname JONES <br />
Grooms Forenames Thomas <br />
Grooms Age 26 <br />
Groom Condition Widower <br />
Grooms Occupation Woodman under the Crown <br />
Grooms Residence Astonbridge Lodge Lydbrook <br />
Grooms Fathers Surname JONES <br />
Grooms Fathers Forenames John <br />
Grooms Fathers Occupation Woodman under the Crown <br />
Brides Surname WOOLLEY <br />
Brides Forenames Mary Ann <br />
Brides Age 25 <br />
Brides Condition Spinster <br />
Brides Occupation [not stated] <br />
Brides Residence Rectory English Bicknor <br />
Brides Fathers Surname WOOLLEY <br />
Brides Fathers Forenames Henry <br />
Brides Fathers Occupation Labourer <br />
Licence or Banns Banns <br />
Date of Banns 1852 Oct 31 Nov 7 14 <br />
Signature or Mark Both sign <br />
Witness 1 Mark of Henry Wooley <br />
Witness 2 Richard Jones <br />
Other Witnesses  <br />
Officiating Minister John Burdon <br />
Event Marriage <br />
Memoranda  <br />
Notes Banns are in P138 IN 1/10 page 65. <br />
Register Reference P138 IN 1/12 <br />
Page Number 31 <br />
Parish Chapel English Bicknor</p>
<p>Luckily I was using my Glos FHS 1851 Census cd, from which</p>
<p><span style="color:#009;">1959  1851 CENSUS HO107/1959 FF.0117-0144 ED.3B NEWNHAM 1                                                                            </span></p>
<p><span style="color:#009;">Piece: 1959      Folio: 0138     Schedule: 121</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#009;">Address: Aston Bridge Lodge     </span></p>
<p><span style="color:#009;">JONES Thomas    HD W  24   Keeper of Woods &amp; Forests HEF Whitchurch    (c1827)<br />
JONES James     SO U   2   Son                       GLS Staunton                     (c1849)<br />
JONES Mary      CI U  17   House Keeper           GLS Staunton                     (c1834)</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#009;"></span><br />
(So despite appearing at first to be a Lydbrook Jones so maybe one of my ancestors, sadly it seems not).</p>
<p>Presumably the housekeeper became his second wife ??..... see below </p>
<p>Again by using Advanced Search, inputting just the names can quickly get a tabulated output of all this site's Baptisms of all the Thomas Jones with father John Jones (from the Marriage Record). Clearly we're looking around 1825, but again this one stands out as the only &quot;Woodman&quot;, </p>
<p>Record ID 78524 <br />
Entry Number 159 <br />
Year 1826 <br />
Month May <br />
Day 14 <br />
Parents Surname JONES <br />
Child Forenames Thomas <br />
Fathers Forenames John <br />
Mothers Forenames Hannah <br />
Mothers Surname  <br />
Residence New Wier <br />
Occupation Woodman <br />
Officiating Minister Richd Davies Rector <br />
Event Baptism <br />
Memoranda  <br />
Notes  <br />
Register Reference P310 IN 1/8 <br />
Page Number 20 <br />
Parish Chapel Staunton </p>
<p>So Thomas's parents are John &amp; Hannah Jones. </p>
<p>And so on... eg heres his first marriage:</p>
<p>Record_ID: 20541 <br />
Entry_Number: 36 <br />
Year: 1847 <br />
Month: Jun <br />
Day: 14 <br />
Grooms_Surname: JONES <br />
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas <br />
Grooms_Age: Of full age <br />
Groom_Condition: Bachelor <br />
Grooms_Occupation: Wood Cutter <br />
Grooms_Residence: Staunton <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Jones <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John <br />
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Woodman <br />
Brides_Surname: JENKINS <br />
Brides_Forenames: Ann <br />
Brides_Age: Of full age <br />
Brides_Condition: Spinster <br />
Brides_Occupation:  <br />
Brides_Residence: Llandogo in the county of Monmouth <br />
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Jenkins <br />
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: James <br />
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Turnpike Gate Keeper <br />
Licence_or_Banns: Certificate of t <br />
Date_of_Banns:  <br />
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign <br />
Witness_1: Magrett Jenkins <br />
Witness_2: Richard Jones <br />
Other_Witnesses:  <br />
Officiating_Minister: Richard Davies Rector <br />
Event: Marriage <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference: P310 IN 1/6 <br />
Page_Number: 18 <br />
Parish_Chapel: Staunton <br />
Soundex_Groom: J520 <br />
Soundex_Bride: J525 </p>
<p>Some interesting/unusual occupations here...</p>
<p>Back to the housekeeper becomes wife theory: <br />
SO if Mary Jones the Housekeeper in 1851 Census is born abt 1834, searching this site's PRs gives this &quot;interesting&quot; possibility.. but as the Marriage Record clearly shows his future wife Mary Jones was a Wooley, so it looks like he had been quite understandably sharing the Lodge with his housekeeper sister. <br />
 <br />
Record_ID: 78587 <br />
Entry_Number: 222 <br />
Year: 1834 <br />
Month: Jun <br />
Day: 15 <br />
Parents_Surname: JONES <br />
Child_Forenames: Mary <br />
Fathers_Forenames: John <br />
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah <br />
Mothers_Surname:  <br />
Residence: New Wier <br />
Occupation: Woodman <br />
Officiating_Minister: Richd Davies Rector <br />
Event: Baptism <br />
Memoranda:  <br />
Notes:  <br />
Register_Reference: P310 IN 1/8 <br />
Page_Number: 28 <br />
Parish_Chapel: Staunton <br />
Soundex: J520 </p>
<p>You'll find the Advanced Search REALLY good, as you can input minimal info, even just part names etc (eg enter &quot;Ta&quot; to find &quot;Tailer&quot; &quot;Tailor&quot; &quot;Tayler&quot; etc) and still get several results. Click on a column heading and it will be sorted eg chronologically, all really quickly &amp; easily.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=37956</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 22:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Martha Ann Jones of Lydbrook</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Help with parents/grand parents of Martha Ann Jones born 01.11.1857 please and married Oliver Phelps born 04.-7.1856.</p>
<p>many thanks</p>
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<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 22:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>sarah phelps</dc:creator>
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