Your entry caused me to check out my Kear entries. Looking first at anyone born around the same time as Mary Kear 1773, I found I also had a William Kear 1770 baptised Bream to a William Kear and Martha Jenkins, the latter having married 11 Feb 1772 Newland. William Kear 1770 is in my Family Tree as following his marriage to Sarah Cox 1781 at Newland 14 Mar 1813, they had a daughter Mary Kear 1830 who married my 4th cousin 3 times removed Benjamin Trigg 1826.

Next checking baptisms for a Mary Kear 1773 - who married Thomas Beach, I found one 13 Dec 1772 Newland with parents William Kear and Martha.

In the same timescale I have an Enoch Kear born abt 1775 Bream who married a Hannah Hawkins 29 Nov 1796 Bream. Baptisms for Enoch around this time to not connect to William Kear & Martha.

Jim Ashton

You mentioned earlier that you have several Kear's in your tree

The Mary Kear who married 1773 Thomas Beach in 1797 is my 3rd Great Grandmother. Other than that I know nothing. Can you add anything?

thanks Brian

I have come across this quandary before. I have often found that my "gut" instinct is right and am pleased when this is sometimes proven to be correct. In this era, you often have nothing like a Census to confirm your decision.

I think in this case that James is the correct choice, primarily because of the names of the children of James compared to those of Thomas.

However, I am going to opt for neither !! It is another case of me researching too far back and as it is not important to my tree will stop at Thomas 1773.

Good Luck with your researches.

Jim Ashton

Well spotted, I've pondered hard and long over this one.......

Initially, I think that I chose Parent Thomas more or less because it gave me "more family history" to investigate. There are no baptisms for Parent James. My tree still refects this choice.

However, I've recently re-visited and actually believe that that James is more likely to be the father based on the family christian names

James' Kids
1773 Thomas
1779 John
1782 James
1785 William
1787 Eliner
1788 Christiana
1790 Martha
1791 Job

1748 Thomas' Kids
1771 William
1773 Thomas
1775 John
1777 Mary
1780 Isaac
1789 Easter
1786 Silvea
1788 Joshua

1773 Thomas Jnr Kids
1798 James
1800 Emey
1802 Thomas
1805 William
1809 Elin
1811 Mary
1813 George

It's all guesswork really. But, for what it's worth.....

1723 John Beach and Eleanor Morgan seem to be the only (and earliest) Beaches in Bream c1750. Their children and grandchildren were

1746 Mary
1748 Thomas m Mary Priest William Thomas John etc
1750 William m Christian Morgan Mary Jane Benjamin etc
1753 Sarah
1756 John
1759 Richard m Mary Morgan Fanny Henry Thomas etc

which account for all the Beach baptisms in Bream over that time period, So, I think that just maybe James and Thomas were brothers (or cousins) but James' baptism's got lost. If so, then my existing links go back through their common grandparents. But James could just as easily be an outsider! Any thoughts?

Brian

I have followed your reasoning about Mary Ann Beach 1845/1848 who married Henry Downes 1846. I found that I already had Thomas Beach 1773 & Mary Kear in my Family Tree. Where I am not so sure about your reasoning is the baptisms for Thomas 1773. You have chosen Thomas Beach and Mary but I wonder about James and Elizabeth, especially as Bream is featured in both. See the two baptism's below :

Year: 1773
Month: Sep
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: BEACH
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Breem
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: P227 IN 4/1
Page_Number: 339
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1773
Month: Jul
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: BEACH
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P57 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 51
Parish_Chapel: Bream

I am always in danger of following siblings and parents of spouses too far, but as is often the case, you find that people that are "connected" becaome "related" due to subsequent discoveries.

In this instance, I have 12 Beach's in my tree, but 27 Kear's, so following lines can easily change relationships.

Perhapos you can explain your reasoning regarding Thomas Beach 1773.

Jim Ashton

This is the census record concerned. This Benjamin was born out of county c1781 not c1795 in county as per my original link

1841 Berryhill Lane Coleford
BEACH, Benjamin M 60 1781
BEACH, Elizabeth F 55 1786 Gloucestershire
BEACH, William M 20 1821 Gloucestershire
BEACH, Jane F 20 1821 Gloucestershire
BEACH, Maria F 15 1826
BEACH, Eliza F 10 1831

No sign of Ann, but I think that this is her

1841 census at Newland
MORGAN, Sarah F 45 1796 Gloucestershire
Edwid M 14 1827 Gloucestershire
George M 11 1830 Gloucestershire
Robert M 8 1833 Gloucestershire
Tom M 5 1836 Gloucestershire
BEACH, Ann F 15 1826 Gloucestershire
OWEN, George M 50 1791 Gloucestershire

I have the following baptisms for the family

1821 BEACH Jane Benjamin Elizabeth Berry Hill Labourer Christchurch
1823 BEACH William Benjamin Elizabeth Fives Acres Labourer Christchurch
1825 BEACH Maria Benjamin Elizabeth Short Standing Labourer Christchurch
1827 BEACH Anne Benjamin Elizabeth Short Standing Labourer Christchurch

All of which suggests that this Ann (and family) don't belong to me.

I do have Mary Ann 1848 and her pedigree......

William 1805 and Ann Jones
Thomas 1773 and Mary Kear
Thomas 1748 and Mary Priest
John 1723 and Eleanor Morgan
William 1686 and Sara Worgan

though I haven't followed her forward yet.....

Brian

Here is the baptism record for the Ann Beach that married Abednego - I have altered his name in my Family Tree !!

Year: 1827
Month: Aug
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: BEACH
Child_Forenames: Anne
Fathers_Forenames: Benjamin
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Short Standing
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: T.R. Garnsey
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 52
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

Can you post your 1841 Census findings which caused you to change your Family Tree.

I have another Ann Beach in my Family tree born abt. 1813. The only reason she is in my tree is that she had a daughter Mary Ann 1848 who married Henry Downes born 17 May 1846 in Register Office Westbury on Severn 1871. Henry Downes and Mary Ann nee Beach had 7 children including Thomas Ernest Downes 1879 who married my 2nd cousin twice removed Martha Gibbs born 3 Sep 1880. My main interest here is that Martha's grandmother was Selina Marfell born 28 Oct 1839. They all - except Selina nee Marfell emigrated to USA.

1851 Census Lower Row West Dean
Ann Beach abt 1813 Coleford Head
Abraham Beach abt 1834 Whitecroft Son
Ellen Beach abt 1844 Whitecroft Daughter
Fanny Beach abt 1846 Whitecroft Daughter
George Beach abt 1841 Whitecroft Son
Isabella Beach abt 1839 Whitecroft Daughter
Mary Ann Beach abt 1848 Whitecroft Daughter
Phillip Beach abt 1831 WhitecroftSon
Sarah Beach abt 1837 Whitecroft Daughter
William Beach abt 1849 Whitecroft Son

1891 Census East Dean
RG12/2004/271
Amos Gibbs 34 CM East Dean
Rachel 29 East Dean
Martha 10 East Dean
Henry 8 East Dean
Ada 5 East Dean
Dorcas 3 East Dean
Clara 2 mths East Dean

1901 Census Knights Hill, East Dean
Henry Downes wdr 54 CM Whitecroft West Dean
Minnie dtr 17 Knights Hill, East Dean
William 14 Knights Hill, East Dean
Arthur 8 Knights Hill, East Dean

1901 Census East Dean
Thomas E Downs abt 1878 Whitecroft, Head CM
Martha Downs abt 1879 Ruardean, Wife

Jim Ashton

your posting prompted me to review my tree and I think that I may well have chosen the wrong parents for Ann.....

The 1841 census shows her siblings at home with a 60 year old Benjamin born out of county. So, she's probably not a relation after all

Without your post I might never have spotted my mistake, thanks again Brian

All I can say is yes, which sounds a bit pitiful really.

The witnesses at the wedding look like being her brother & sister.

I agree with your comments re her parents being Benjamin 1795 & Elizabeth

grandparents Benjamin Beach 1756 and Susan Smith
ggrandparents Samuel Beach 1726 & Elizabeth ??????
gggrandparents William Beach 1691 and Sarah Worgan who was my 6th great grandfather

It appears that Ann Beach was my 3nd cousin 4 times removed, whatever that means, but we weren't that close!

As my current interest is the Beach family, my tree stops here for the time being with the change of surname but your findings are most appreciated. Who'd have thought that a chimney sweep would have used these christian names!

Regards Brian

In my Family Tree I have an Ann Beach baptised 12 Aug 1827 Christchurch. She married my 5th cousin 4 times removed Abedrego Tippins 1827/1884 on 13 Sep 1846 Christchurch. Witness 1 Mark of William Beach Witness 2 Mark of Maria Beach. They had 13 children. Including Shadrack 1851 but no Meshach :

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are people recorded in the biblical Hebrew book of Daniel Chapters 1–3, known for their exclusive devotion to God. In particular, they are known for being saved by divine intervention from the Babylonian execution of being burned alive in a fiery furnace. Thank Wikipedia not me !! Abedrego - or should that be Abednego had a brother Shadrack.

Year: 1827
Month: Mar
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: TIPPINGS
Child_Forenames: Abedrego
Fathers_Forenames: Rich[ar]d
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: The Scowles
Occupation: Chimney Sweeper
Officiating_Minister: H Douglas Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 78
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Ann Beach 1827 was the daughter of Benjamin Beach & Elizabeth Williams. I do not know their dates of birth, but can tell you that they married 26 Dec 1818 Staunton.

Is this your Benjamin Beach ?

1851 Census Coleford
TIPPINS Bendigo 26 Miner Newland
Ann 26 Newland
Ann Maria 3 Scholar Newland
Eliza 2 Newland
Sharbrach ??? son 3m Newland

1881 Census
Dwelling: Scowles
Census Place: Newland, Gloucester, England
Source: FHL Film 1342258 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5223 Folio 49 Page 17
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Abenedego TIPPINS M 59 M Scowles, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head Handicap: Blind
Ann TIPPINS M 57 F Scowles, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
John TIPPINS U 16 M Scowles, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Collier
Jessie TIPPINS U 11 F Scowles, Gloucester, England
Rel: Dau
Richard TIPPINS 7 M Scowles, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son

1841Census Newland
Richard Tippin abt 1781 Gloucestershire,
Hannah Tippin abt 1776 Gloucestershire,
Hannah Tippin abt 1816 Gloucestershire,
Margaret Tippin abt 1821 Gloucestershire
Abednego Tippin abt 1823 Gloucestershire,
Mary Tippin abt 1834 Gloucestershire,

Jim Ashton

just me being sloppy, there are thousands of Staunton records but just 1 referring to the Beach family......

the parish records list the above baptism (parents Benjamin and Jane) as occuring at Staunton Chapel

Does anyone know if this is more likely to be the Staunton north of Gloucester or the Staunton near Coleford? I can't trace any other baptisms at this venue which suggests to me that it is the former.

thanks Brian