John Hallier (b. 1826-7 in Newnham) - Forest of Dean FHT Forum

I am searching for information concerning John Hallier born 1826-7 in Newnham (or nearby Broad Oak). According to the 1881 Census he was living in Mortlake, Greater London area and was born in Newnham. Any help much appreciated.

John HALLIER, 29 April 1827, Newnham St Peter

parents John (occ Butcher) and Mary

they obviously lost their first John

John HALLIER, 27 8 August 1818, Westbury on Severn, St Peter & St Paul - parents John (occ Butcher) and Mary

also

John HALLIER, christened 3 September 1820, William (Baker) and Ann - Westbury on Severn, St Peter & St Paul

John HALLIER married Mary HOLDER, 9 November 1813, by Banns, Newnham

John HALLIER come in twos.....

1851, Herefordshire, Walford

Butts Hill East

William TRIGG - 55, Tailor, born Hundred of St Briavels
Elizabeth TRIGG - 53, born Hereford, Weston
Sarah TRIGG - 16
John HALLIER, son-in-law - age 23, Carpenter, born Newham
Elizabeth HALLIER - born Hereford, Weston

Thanks very much for the response. Much appreciated. What do you make of the 1841 Cansus that lists a John Hallier born abt 1826 (CORRECTION) LIVING in Framton Cotterell (CORRECTION) BORN in Gloucestershire living with James Hallier born abt. 1801? Some public family trees at ancestry.com list James as the father and Nathaniel Hallier as his father. I cannot find the parents of Nathaniel. Thanks again, Peter. Also, the handwritten record in the 1861 Census shows Elizabeth Hallier 2 years old born in "South Wales". I can find no Birth or Baptism record in Monmouthshire, Wales or elsewhere in South Wales. Thanks again, Peter.

John HALLIER's come in twos.....

indeed they do !

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

{all as transcribed !}

1891
Lydia C Hallier abt 1869 Holloway, London, England Head Mortlake, Surrey
John A Hallier abt 1871 Barnes, Surrey, England Brother Mortlake, Surrey

Name: John Hallier
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 57
District: Kingston
County: Middlesex, Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 201

1881
John Hallier abt 1827 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Head Mortlake, Surrey Carpenter Joiner
Mary A. Hallier abt 1838 Bath, Somerset, England Wife Mortlake, Surrey
Herbert Hallier abt 1865 Islington, Middlesex, England Son Mortlake, Surrey
Constance Hallier . abt 1868 Islington, Middlesex, England Daughter Mortlake, Surrey
John A. Hallier . abt 1871 Barnes, Surrey, England Son Mortlake, Surrey

1871 Barnes Surrey
John Hallick 44 Newnham Carpenter
Mary A Hallick 34 Bath Somerset
Jane Hallick 11 South Wales Cardiff
Lavinied M Hallick 9 Islington
Herbert Hallick 6 Islington
Amy E Hallick 4 Islington
Lidia C Hallick 3 Islington
John A Hallick 4 Months Barnes

death
Name: John Alfred Hallier
Year of Registration: 1863
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Islington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 136

1861
John Hallier abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Head Islington, Middlesex Carpenter
Mary Ann Hallier abt 1838 Bath Wife Islington, Middlesex
Elizabeth Hallier abt 1859 Wales, Louth, Ireland [SOUTH WALES] Daughter Islington, Middlesex

1861
Elizabeth Hallier abt 1821 Weston, Herefordshire, England Head Walford, Herefordshire Married
Thomas Hallier abt 1852 Walford, Herefordshire, England Son Walford, Herefordshire
William Hallier abt 1854 Walford, Herefordshire, England Son Walford, Herefordshire

1851 ?
William Trigg abt 1796 Haws of St Brewards, Gloucestershire, England Head Walford, Herefordshire Tailor
Elizabeth Trigg abt 1798 Weston, Herefordshire, England Wife Walford, Herefordshire
Sarah Trigg abt 1835 Weston, Herefordshire, England Daughter Walford, Herefordshire
John Hallier abt 1828 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Son-in-Law Walford, Herefordshire Carpenter
Elizabeth Hallier abt 1813 Weston, Herefordshire, England Daughter Walford, Herefordshire

Name: John Hallier
Name:Elizabeth Trigg
Year of Registration: 1846
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Gloucester (1837-1937)
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 478

1841
John Hallin abt 1788 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire Butcher
Mary Hallin abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire
Levina Hallin abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire
Jane Hallin abt 1824 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire
John Hallin abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Hallin abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire

Year: 1818
Month: Dec
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: TRIGG
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Weston
Occupation: Tailor
Officiating_Minister: Richard Walond
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: D[aughte]r of
Notes:
Register_Reference: AA33/5
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Weston under Penyard

<><> just to reinforce the butcher family from Newnham- sister Lavinia 's marriage
Year: 1844
Month: Aug
Day: 18
Grooms_Surname: GWILLIAM
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: Full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: tailor
Grooms_Residence: Little Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Gwilliam
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Jeremiah
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: tailor
Brides_Surname: HALLIER
Brides_Forenames: Lavinia
Brides_Age: full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Little Dean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Hallier
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: butcher
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: he marks she signs
Witness_1: mark of Edward Gwilliam
Witness_2: mark of Louisa George
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: T. Beale
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 38
Parish_Chapel: Newnham

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thanks very much for the response. Much appreciated. What do you make of the 1841 Cansus that lists a John Hallier born abt 1826 in Gloucestershire and living in Framton Cotterell with James Hallier born abt. 1801? Some public family trees at ancestry.com list James as the father and Nathaniel Hallier as his father. I cannot find the parents of Nathaniel. Thanks again, Peter. Also, the handwritten record in the 1861 Census shows Elizabeth Hallier 2 years old born in "South Wales". I can find no Birth or Baptism record in Monmouthshire, Wales or elsewhere in South Wales. Thanks again, Peter.

I think having a child called Lavinia and a sister Lavinia is a "strong" indication that this John is the son of the Butcher ( Family in 1841 Newnham ) - If Jane or Elizabeth had been the common name I would be less encouraged !

Name: Lavinia Mary Hallier
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Islington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 183

The child born in South Wales / Cardiff around 1859 is probably an Elizabeth Jane or Jane Elizabeth.

Its starting to look like John and Mary ( from Bath) are not married (in which case Elizabeth Jane could be registered under another (mothers?) surname....

1871 Walford
Elizabeth Hallier 48 Neston Married
Thomas Hallier 18 Walford
William Hallier 16 Walford

children of the marriage with Elizabeth TRIGG

Year: 1852
Month: May
Day: 27
Parents_Surname: HALLIER
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Bulls Hill Walford
Occupation: Cabinet Maker
Officiating_Minister: Arthur Stonhouse Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/4
Page_Number: 148
Parish_Chapel: Walford

Year: 1854
Month: Sep
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: HALLIER
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Walford
Occupation: Cabinetmaker and Builder
Officiating_Minister: Arthur Stonhouse Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/4
Page_Number: 155
Parish_Chapel: Walford

When Elizabeth dies - John would be free to marry - assuming he knew !, but he dies 4 years later in 1884

Year: 1880
Month: Jan
Day: 5
Surname: HALLIER
Forenames: Elizabeth
Residence: Walford
Age_at_death: 61
Officiating_Minister: Arthur Stonhouse Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/11
Page_No: 171
Parish_Chapel: Walford

<><><><>

So far as I can tell the "first" children do not marry.

1891
Thomas Hallier abt 1852 Ross, Herefordshire, England Servant Abbey Dore, Herefordshire

1891
William Hallier abt 1856 Walford, Herefordshire, England Lodger Ross, Herefordshire

1901
William Halier abt 1855 Walford, Herefordshire, England Lodger Hope Mansel, Herefordshire

Name: William Hallier
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 48
District: Ross
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester
Volume: 6a
Page: 281

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Year: 1820
Month: Sep
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: HALLIER
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Westbury
Occupation: Baker
Officiating_Minister: H P Jones
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 58
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

<><><><><>

1871 George St Newport
Catharine Comment 74 Devon Plymouth
Maria Haler 30 Spain

death
Name: John Hellier
Year of Registration: 1862
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Newport M
County: Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 80

1861
John Hullier abt 1820 Broad Cork, Gloucestershire, England Head Newport St Woollos, Monmouthshire Confectioner
Maria Hullier abt 1824 Gib B S Wife Newport St Woollos, Monmouthshire
Catherine Commander abt 1797 Mervezcezey Mother Newport St Woollos, Monmouthshire

1851 Tredegar
John Hallier 30 Broadoak Confectioner (?)
Mary Hallier 28 Gibraltar Spain Brit Subject
Catherine Commander 50 Mother in Law Cornwall Mevagissy
Ellen Coleman 20

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-----------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1845 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Conmander Maria Abergavenny 26 41
CONMANDERE Maria Abergavenny 26 41
Hallier John Abergavenny 26 41

1841
John Commander abt 1786 Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Catharine Commander abt 1801 Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Maria Commander abt 1826 Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
William Commander abt 1830 Bedwelty, Monmouthshire

Possible parents in law

JOHN COMMANDER
----------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: CATHERINE KENDLE
Marriage: 14 APR 1817 Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
--------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M052421 1808 - 1814 0916925 Film 1037070 Film
M052421 1814 - 1829 0916926 Film NONE
M052421 1829 - 1837 0916927 Film NONE
Sheet: 00

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thanks again!! I will work through the possibilities. I tend to agree with you at this point about membership in the Newnham family. Best regards, Peter

I have updated my prior note to reflect splitting the Broadoak John - Confectioner - away from the John - Cabinet maker / carpenter / Joiner

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

? re William COMMANDER 1841 census (says not born in County)

christening at Cheltenham St Mary - 15 August 1830

William COMMANDER - parents John (labourer) & Catherine

There is both a William COMMANDER and a Maria COMMANDER (Maria unmarried on census' saying they were born in Warwickshire) Leamington) ????? -

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

John Hallier (b. 1826-7 in Newnham) (General)

John Hallier (HALLIER/HOLDER)

John Hallier (HALLIER/HOLDER)

John HALLIER one from Newnham - one from Broadoak

John HALLIER b. 1827-1884 Newnham -> Surrey; Carpenter

John HALLIER b. 1827 Broadoak / Newnham

John HALLIER b. 1827 Newnham - Carpenter /Joiner

Maria HALLIER nee COMMANDER Spain ( wife John from Broadoak)

Maria HALLIER nee COMMANDER Spain ( wife John from Broadoak)

John HALLIER Carpenter / joiner from Newnham

COMMANDER