Forest of Dean FHT Forum - AMBURY/WHITTINGTON/MORGAN

AMBURY/WHITTINGTON/MORGAN (reply)

MPGriffiths — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:28:00 +0000

I've been adviced that…

'If a Parish is given as St Briavels, it often means Hundred of St Briavels, i.e. extra parochial'

Had a very quick search re witnesses: AMBURY to any WHITTINGTON marriages

Much later on - 13 February 1875 at Christchurch

William POWELL - Collier for Joyford

married

Eliza WHITTINGTON, spinster, of Hillersland, father Thomas WHITTINGTON (deceased)

witnesses: Thomas AMBURY, Louisa Ann AMBURY

Had a look at Gloucestershirebdm: POWELL/WHITTINGTON

Ann - 1876, Monmouth Coleford
Justus - 1881 - ditto

1881 Census West Dean

Joyford

POWELL

William - 45 - born West Dean
Eliza - 34 - born West Dean (c1847)
Ann - born West Dean
Justus - 1 month

---

1861 Census West Dean

Shortstanding

WHITTINGTON

Thomas - 67 - Forest Labourer - born West Dean
Elizabeth - 66 - born Lydney
Ann - 18
Susan - 16

1851 Census

Ancestry: WALLINGTON

WHITTINGTON (looking at Glosbdm) - can see some children's mother's maiden name was MORGAN

Thomas - 55 - born Hillersland
Elizabeth - 35 - born Lydney
Mary - 10
Ann - 9
Susan - 6
Eliza - 3

1841 Census, Shortstanding

WHITTINGTON

Thomas - 45
Elizabeth - 25 (?? second marriage for Thomas - Eleanor WHITTINGTON, wife of Thomas was buried 8 October 1838)
Mary - 8
Ann WHITTINGTON - 80
Eliza - 13
Charlotte - 7

----

Marriage at Penalt Monmouth - 30 November 1840

Thomas WHITTINGTON - bachelor, labourer - residence: Lower Boat
father: John WHITTINGTON, collier

married Elizabeth MORGAN, spinster, Servant, Lower Boat

witnesses: James REYNOLDS, mark of Elizabeth WHITTINGTON

father: George MORGAN, farmer

William AMBREY and Sarah WITTINGTON (reply)

lesleyr — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:13:25 +0000

Hello
Your message is most helpful.
Harriet Hale and James Whittington who married in Abenhall were my 3g grandparents. I wondered why they married in Abenhall and not St Briavel's (Harriet's home parish) but maybe Abenhall was the parish of James Whittington. I also wondered who Sarah and William Hambury were but it looks like Sarah Whittington/Hambury might have been James's sister or other kin so I shall research that possibility.
I now know that the James Whittington who married Hannah Horsham was a different James. My James disappeared just before the marriage to Hannah so I put 2 and 2 together and made 5 by thinking they were the same person.
I will post a new thread about the record of the Gloucestershire Assizes to see if that throws up any helpful responses.
Meanwhile I have the Sarah Whittington lead to investigate and will report back if I discover anything.
Thank you again
Lesley

William AMBREY and Sarah WITTINGTON (reply)

MPGriffiths — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:43:58 +0000

When James WHITTINGTON - hundred of St Briavells married Harriet HALE at Abenhall - 22 June 1834 - the witnesses were

William HAMBURY and Sarah HAMBURY

On the Gloucestershire Archives: James WHITTINGTON was aged 32 in 1842 - (c1810) and a Collier from English Bicknor - and was found Not Guilty of larcency - 18 October 1842 (although this may not be your James as there appears to be more than one)

-----

1841 Census, English BICKNOR

James WHITTINGTON - 25 *****
Harriet - 25
Eliza - 5
Lucy - 4
James - 2
Thomas HALE 5

1851 Census, Newland

Incline

Ancestry: WHITHIGH

Harriett - 36 - Married - all born Newland
Lucy - 14
James - 11
Eliza - 9
William - 6 (born Monmouth)

-----

Have looked at a Public Members Tree on Ancestry

and on the Fod Records - marriage at Hope Mansell - 9 November 1828

William AMBREY married Sarah WITTINGTON - both of St Briavels

children:

Eliza 1831, William 1832, Amelia 1835-1893, Caroline 1837 - Alice - 1839 - Fanny - 1840-1872

Ancestry has the family as AMBERG 1841 census, Dean Forest, Ross

Wm - 30
Sarah - 35
Eliza - 11
William - 9
Amelia - 7
Caroline - 5
Alice - 3
Fanny - 7 months

This tree lists James' father as William WHITTINGTON

---

A couple of pages away on the 1841 census from James and Harriet WHITTINGTON is

William WHITTINGTON - 50
Mary - 45
Frederick - 15
Sarah - 10
Alfred - 5

----

*** There is on Public Members Tree - with certificates inc his marriage and death - states his father was Thomas (deceased)** ) and really no idea whether this info is correct -

but it states that on the 18 May 1845, at Eastington, Gloucestershire - James WELLINGTON married Hannah Horsham and went on to have another family.

*** Baptism at English Bicknor - 7 May 1809, James WHITTINGTON, parents Thomas & Eleanor

siblings: Mary 1792, Thomas 1793, Richard 1797, John 1802

Thomas WHITTINGTON married Eleanor LAWRENCE - at Newland 30 November 1790

Ancestry Public Members Tree has the death certificate of Eleanor - 8 October 1838, Widow, in attendance, Ann WHITTINGTON, daughter-in-law

1851 Census West Dean

James WHITINGTON - 40 - Collier, born Bicknor
Hannah - 32 - born Aston
George - 5 - Bicknor
Henry - 2- born High B (Henry was present at James death - certificate also on Ancestry Public Members Tree)
Mary HORSON - 52 - visitor, born Aston
Samuel HORSON - 20

James Whittington 1809 - 1888 (reply)

lesleyr — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:37:21 +0000

Hello
I started this string of messages some years ago but I want to correct a mistake I made. Mr Eric Winter has kindly shared his research with me and I now realise that my James Whittington (who married Harriet Hale) was not the same person who married Hannah Horsham. I had made an assumption based on the 1841 census showing only 2 people of the correct age living in the Forest. But now I see there were 3:

James Whittington, wood collier of Joyford 25 living with his wife Harriet - definitely my 3g grandfather.

Jas Whittington labourer of Coalway 25 living with his wife Mary Ann - they later left for New Zealand.

James Wittington coal miner of Lydbrook 25 living alone. He must have been the one who married Hannah Horsham and is recorded in the Parish Record as the son of Thomas.

Unfortunately that leaves me without parents for my James so I expect I have reached a block with that line. I can't find a baptism in the Parish Records and he was born too early for civil registration. I also can't find anything about him after a possible appearance at Gloucester Assizes in 1842. His family were in the Monmouth Workhouse in 1843 and James was no longer with them at the 1851 census, although his wife described herself as 'Married'. Any clues would be appreciated.

I apologise for any inconvenience my assumption has caused,

Lesley

James Whittington 1809 - 1888 (reply)

lesleyr — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:15:01 +0000

Hello everyone,
For several months now I have been researching a branch of my Yorkshire family that moved there from the Forest of Dean. Your website has been a treasure trove of information, not only from the records that have been put on line but also from the generosity of members of the forum who have shared their knowledge.
In the spirit of sharing information I am reporting what I discovered about my 3rd Great Grandfather James Whittington (circa 1809 - 1888) in the hopes that it may be useful to someone on the forum.
James was the son of Thomas Whittington and Eleanor Lawrence. I realised eventually that he must have married twice, the second time bigamously in Wheatenhurst outside the Forest under the name of James Wellington.
His first wife was Harriet Hale (1814 - 1884) by whom he had children Eliza, Lucy, James, ELizabeth and William. He then disappeared and reappeared in a different part of the Forest (not far away by today's standards) married to Hannah Horsham (1814 - 1891) by whom he had children George, Henry Horsham, Richard Edward and Mary Ann.
Once more, many thanks for a gem of a website,
Lesley

Parents of Eliza Whittington (born 1835) (reply)

lesleyr — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:18:37 +0000

Hello again
Thank you for the contributions to my query.
I think I may have found another reason as to why the name of Eliza Whittington's mother is recorded on her baptism record as Eliza and not Harriet (as everywhere else).
Although the Whittingtons lived in English Bicknor, Eliza and her siblings were baptised in Monmouth which is not covered by your excellent Parish Record section. I got the original information from the IGI so yesterday I visited the London Family History Centre yesterday to check the entry on the microfilms of the parish records and transcripts held there. I found that the record for the baptism in Monmouth (2 November 1843) of Eliza and her siblings Lucy, James and William, was a 'transcript'. Can I take that to mean that someone had transcribed the information from the original? If so, maybe the person who did the transcribing made a mistake and recorded Eliza's mother as Eliza and not Harriet.
By the way, it may interest anyone else researching the Whittingtons, that the reason Eliza and her siblings were baptised in Monmouth rather than English Bicknor was that the family were living in the Monmouth Workhouse at the time (recorded in the transcript).

Lesley

On Use of Names (reply)

rookancestrybest — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:14:50 +0000

Yes this practice of stating that only the names of saints could be used was very prevailent in R.C. baptisms (and still can be) but might well have been equally prominent in the Anglican Church (especially what is known as "The High Church" within Anglicanism)too. My grandfather's parents wanted to baptise him as Terrence but the priest insisted on a saint's name resulting in them having to change their minds about the name at the baptismal font!(They chose the name of the saint that the Church had!). I have found out that there might be a Saint Terrence but the particular priest in question must not have been aware of it. However the feminine or masculine version of a saint's name wasn't usually opposed. Harriet would therefore be acceptable as it is a derivation of Henry which is definitely a saint's name. In the same way as Eliza is a derivation of Elizabeth, the latter definitely being a saint's name.
My Goddaughter has a child named Bridie, and though the RC priest, less than a decade ago, did not oppose the use of the name he said "It's Bridget really so why don't you call her Bridget?" However he did Baptise her as Bridie.
Another practice which RC priests allow is a name which is not a saint's name as one name providing there is another name (middle or first) which is a saint's name e.g. Iris Mary would be accepted or preferably it would be Mary Iris but not Iris on its own (unless of course Iris is a saint's name). Though the preson would be then known by all as Iris she might be recorded as Mary in places.
The other thing to watch though is that many people in Britain have a first name and a second/middle name and might use one in one context and one in another, I have found that some census returns do not always have both names if a person had a first and a middle name. They quite often only have the first name. In one case in my family (not on the FOD side) there is a child called Grace but in the census return is referred to as Gracie. In the Forest of Dean side there is a child called Symphirosa (I looked it up and found it was a saint's name) but I can find no trace of her after a number of censuses and I am in a dilemma as to whether she might have been known as Rose or Rosa instead or might have died.
Another important use of names is the use of Confirmation names. i.e. the name of a saint chosen by the person for when they are Confirmed by the Bishop. Though these have no legal status and would probably not be recorded anywhere, not even by the church in most cases, there is evidence of people in my family of the RC faith, from the Forest of Dean using them at least as a middle name. ( I am assuming in the C of E people choose a Confirmation name too, but please correct me if I'm wrong, - I ought to know this with no fewer than 13 vicars in my father's family history!!!)
The other thing I have noticed that people in my family history from the Forest of Dean have done is to change their name to something similar e.g. one is referred to as Loui Jane in all the official documents but was always known as Louisa Jane and Ginny and always insisted on being called either Louisa or Ginny and not Loui. Though her best friend named her child Loui and had her as the child's Godmother! Louisa Jane was a highly literate person (a head teacher) who made a conscious decision to change the spelling and form of the name so it cannot be put down to anything other than personal choice in her case at least.

Parents of Eliza WHITTINGTON (born 1835) (reply)

lesleyr — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:11:16 +0000

Hello
Thanks for the information slowhands.
I remember something from my own childhood - our local parish priest refused to baptise an infant with the name chosen by its parents because it wasn't a 'Christian' name. I'm wondering if the reason that Eliza's mother did not use the name Harriet at the baptism of her three children was that Harriet is not a saint (please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not very well informed on religious matters). It looks like James and Harriet might have become religious after the birth of their fourth child (Elizabeth) and had her baptised (21 August 1841 English Bicknor) and then baptised the rest of them along with their next child in 1843.
But no proof of course...
Lesley

Lucy WHITTINGTON prior thread (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:29:23 +0000

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=4100

Parents of Eliza WHITTINGTON (born 1835) (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:02:17 +0000

Harriet HALE of Coleford looks "right" despite the Monmouth registers :-)

Year: 1814
Month: Mar
Day: 20
Parents_Surname: HALE
Child_Forenames: Harriett
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Hundred of St Briavels
Occupation: Coalminer
Officiating_Minister: J Allport
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Compiled from overlapping registers
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 6
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

Year: 1835
Month: Dec
Day: 9
Parents_Surname: HALE
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Forest of Dean
Occupation: Coal Miner
Officiating_Minister: George Roberts BA Perpet: Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: born November 16 1832
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 12
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

1841 Lane End area nr Perch Lodge
George Hale abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Sarah Hale abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Sarah Hale abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Charlot Hale abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
George abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Pheby abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Agness abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest,

1841 Joyford
James Whittington abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English, Gloucestershire
Harriet Whittington abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English, Gloucestershire
Eliza Whittington abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English, Gloucestershire
Lucy Whittington abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English, Gloucestershire
James Whittington abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English, Gloucestershire
Thomas Hale abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English, Gloucestershire

1851 Incline
Harriett Whithigh abt 1815 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire
Lucy Whithigh abt 1835 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Frances Whithigh abt 1840 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Eliza Whithigh abt 1842 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
William Whithigh abt 1845 Newland, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Newland, Gloucestershire

1881
Harriet Whittington abt 1813 Cofort, Gloucestershire, England Mother Normanton, Yorkshire
William Whittington abt 1849 Coalport, Gloucestershire, England Head Normanton, Yorkshire
Charlotte Whittington abt 1845 Park End, Gloucestershire, England Wife Normanton, Yorkshire
Harriet Whittington abt 1869 Kimbley, Nottinghamshire, England Daughter Normanton, Yorkshire
Lucy Whittington abt 1874 Cluwellmere, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Normanton, Yorkshire
William Whittington abt 1880 Snydale, Yorkshire, England Son Normanton, Yorkshire

Parents of Eliza Whittington (born 1835)

lesleyr — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:19:10 +0000

Hello
I am researching my gg grandmother Eliza Whittington who was born in the Coleford region about 1835. Her father was definitely called James but I have a problem with the name of her mother.
Eliza (aged 8) and her siblings Lucy (6), James (5) and William (a baby) were baptised in Monmouth on 2 November 1843, the names of their parents being given as James and Eliza. But the 1841 census gives the name of her mother as Harriet which fits in with the marriage of James Whittington to Harriet Hale in Abinghall on 22 June 1834.
There was also another sibling called Elizbeth who was baptised in English Bicknor in 1841, the daughter of James and Harriet. I am beginning to think that Harriet and ELiza were the same person but that makes me wonder why she gave the name of Eliza in Monmouth and Harriet everywhere else.
If anyone can throw light on this I would be grateful,
Thank you,
Lesley