I was intersted to read that you are a greatgreat grandfather of Timothy Baynham son of enoch and Elizabeth Hulin. My husband Don is also a relative actually grandson his mother was Selina youngest child of Edna and Timothy.
We have been doing the tree but have got stuck with Lilly Ednas first child I beleive you said she was your great great grandmother.
Do you have details of her birth certificate we have been unable to find it.

Thanks Regards,

Susan Moses

1851 Scowles Newland
James Baynham abt 1805 Lea Bailey, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Baynham abt 1811 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland Gloucestershire
Emma Baynham abt 1839 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland Gloucestershire
Enoch Baynham abt 1836 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland Gloucestershire
Charles Baynham abt 1844 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland Gloucestershire
Thomas Baynham abt 1846 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland Gloucestershire

1841 Scowles
James Baynham abt 1785 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Isiah Baynham abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Timothy Baynham abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Catherine Baynham abt 1835 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Enoch Baynham abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire

1841 Littldean Prison
Elizabeth Baynham abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Emma Baynham abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

Year: 1833
Month: Sep
Day: 22
Grooms_Surname: BAYNHAM
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: ROSSER
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Edward Frowen
Witness_2: Mark of Sarah Frowen
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: George Ridout Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 261
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1834
Month: Feb
Day: 16
Surname: BAYNHAM
Forenames: Ann
Residence: Marstow
Age_at_death: 45
Officiating_Minister: N.N. Cazalet Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: wife of James
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/11
Page_No: 47
Parish_Chapel: Walford

Year: 1824
Month: Jun
Day: 5
Grooms_Surname: BAYNHAM
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: Walford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: PENN
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Walford
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Ann Price
Witness_2: James Webb
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbroke Min[iste]r
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/6
Page_Number: 52
Parish_Chapel: Walford

1851 Nailbridge
John Nichols abt 1816 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Nichols abt 1813 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Nichols abt 1842 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Nichols abt 1845 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Philip Nichols abt 1848 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Nichols abt 1851 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

1861 ?
Mary Nicholls abt 1844 Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England Servant Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Name: Mary A Nicholls
Name: Charles Baynham
Year of Registration: 1866
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 435

1871
Charles Baynham 31
Mary Baynham 27
Elizabeth Baynham 4
Lucy Baynham 2
James Baynham 9 Months

Year: 1878
Month: Aug
Day: 12
Grooms_Surname: FRENCH
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: Full Age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Flaxley Meend
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: French
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Haulier
Brides_Surname: NICHOLLS
Brides_Forenames: Eliza
Brides_Age: Full Age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: S. Mary Cheltenham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Nicholls
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Miner
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Charles Prosser
Witness_2: Hannah Prosser
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: R Hall
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P145 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 146
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley

1881
Charles Baynham abt 1843 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Baynham abt 1839 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Baynham abt 1867 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lucy Baynham abt 1869 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Baynham abt 1871 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Baynham abt 1873 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Baynham abt 1874 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Annie Baynham abt 1877 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Emma Baynham abt 1878 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Timothy Baynham East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Charles Baynham abt 1848 Scowles Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Baynham abt 1843 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Timothy Baynham abt 1880 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza French abt 1845 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Sister-in-Law East Dean, Gloucestershire

1901 Nofold Green
Charles Baynham abt 1845 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Baynham abt 1843 Narlbridge, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire

Kind regards, and many thanks,

Don Cameron.

1871 Tylers Terrace Monmouth
William Jeffries 46 Wolvesnewton
Elizabeth Jeffries 36 Llandogo
Alfred Baynham 11 Monmouth
Timothy Baynham 6 Monmouth
Herbert Jeffries 2 months
Elizabeth Brown 37 Llandogo

1881
Timothy Byrom abt 1865 Monmouth, Monmouth, Wales Servant Dixton Hadnock, Monmouthshire

and an entry for Edna and Lilly :-

1891 Chippenham Terrace, Monmouth
Edna Heritage abt 1866 Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Monmouth, Monmouthshire
Lilly Heritage abt 1887 Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Monmouth, Monmouthshire

Name: Edith Blanch Heritage
Year of Registration: 1897
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pontypool
County: Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 170

Name: Frank Alfred Heritage
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Pontypool
County: Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 198

and then they appear as :-

1911
BAYNHAM TIMOTHY M 1865 46 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM ADNA F 1867 44 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM CHARLES M 1892 19 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM EDITH F 1897 14 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM FANK M 1901 10 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM GEORGE M 1897 14 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM LENA F 1906 5 Pontypool Monmouthshire
BAYNHAM MINNIE F 1903 8 Pontypool Monmouthshire

I've been looking back over the BAYNHAM family tree and noted your entry here on the FOD forum. I've been at a loss to find the marriage of Timothy and Edna. You can contact me privately if you wish. I'm not sure that I'm allowed to give my e-mail address here in the forum, so you can find me on flickr with the details of D.M.P.Cameron.

Cheers,

Don.

best wishes martyn

Enoch Baynham (private in Royal Marines, s of James Baynham, Labourer) m Elizabeth Luff Hulin as on marriage cert (d of Philip Luff, Farmer) on 29 Dec 1856 in Monmouth Parish Church

best wishes

martyn

Enoch Baynham (private in Royal Marines, s of James Baynham, Labourer) m Elizabeth Luff Hulin as on marriage cert (d of Philip Luff, Farmer) on 29 Dec 1856 in Monmouth Parish Church

I recently found the discussion on this site re. Enoch Baynham, Elizabeth Luff Hulin and her mother Amelia Hulin. I found it very interesting and the information has enabled me to add more to my family background.

You wrote that, from your research, Enoch Baynham married Elizabeth Luff Hulin in 1856 in Monmouth. They had at least two children: Philip George Baynham (1856 - ?) and Alfred Baynham (1859 - 1909). Elizabeth Luff HULIN was aka Elizabeth Luff BAYNHAM. Her mother was Amelia Hulin.

Timothy Baynham was my great-great grandfather. Elizabeth Hulin/Baynham had Philip & Alfred and went on to have Timothy. She and Enoch must have divorced, because by 1871 she was Mrs. Jeffries and had another child. Enoch was living in the Midlands and either living with or married to another woman.

Timothy Baynham married Edna Heritage - their daughter was Lilly Baynham, my great
grandmother. They moved from the Monmouth area to the Pontypool area, South Wales .

Thanks for the leads.

Jennifer Scott.

Don't be too harsh on yourself, without imagination and theory where would humanity be?

I was thinking that Amelia's children were "illegitimate" and to show her contempt for the LUFF, who seems to have had more than just a dalliance with her, she gives her two daughters the LUFF name to show the world who was responsible.

If only Dr.Who could take us back in time to solve these brickwalls. I doubt we'll ever know the true story about this family group.

Cheers,

And just to prove me wrong again, I notice Elizabeth was born in Llandogo, which means it probably was a Llandogo Luff who fathered Elizabeth. I wonder which one? The William Luff that married Amelia Morgan was in Llandogo - now that would be ironic if it was him!

Ok, I'll write out "I must stop imagining, and stick to facts" 100 times.

-Jean.

Oh, well, back to the drawing board. :-)

-Jean.

Also, as Elizabeth was baptised in 1835 as Hulin, then if my theory is correct, Amelia and ? Hulin must have married prior to 1837, so FreeBMD will not be any help. It doesn't help when Elizabeth's baptism list Amelia as 'spinster'. Perhaps Mr Hulin had died?

The Luffs were very keen on their surname, even down to the 20th century there are a least a dozen girls with Luff as their middle name, which is what made me look at Elizabeth.

I'll let you know if I find any more information.

-Jean.

I've checked FreeBMD for a marriage of any LUFF to any HULIN and no entry was found. I also checked for any MORGAN to any HULIN and there was one entry, as follows;

Elizabeth MORGAN married Alfred HULIN registered at Chepstow, June quarter of 1853, volume 11a, page 35. However, there are only two death entries for Alfred HULIN, as follows;

Alfred A. HULIN died aged 79 June quarter of 1902 registered at Pontypool, and
Alfred HULIN died aged 76 December quarter of 1905 registered at Chepstow.

This is not to say that your theory is incorrect, just that I can't find any information that might confirm it.

Have you a birth/ baptism record for an Amelia MORGAN from St Briavels? I've not checked the FOD database.

I'll add your e-mail to my reference page for Amelia HULIN - MORGAN? in case something comes to light!

I wonder if this Amelia/Elizabeth is even more complicated. I have an Amelia MORGAN married to a William LUFF in 1827. They had 2 daughters and one son - Anne, Elizabeth and Philip, all born Llandogo. By 1841 William has disappeared, but in Llandogo is an Amelia HULIN with daughter Ann. I wonder if Amelia MORGAN married William LUFF, but he died, she married again, becoming HULIN, so Elizabeth became Elizabeth LUFF HULIN - she is a similar age as the one you mention. Elizabeth was originally baptised Elizabeth Luff in 1831, she could have been re-baptised as Elizabeth LUFF HULIN when her mother remarried.

William LUFF was a fisherman, and Amelia HULIN is described as a fish merchant.

It might be worth looking further into this possible scenario.

Regards,
Jean.

Well there is some doubt here because this Enoch has a different wife. Unless of course Elizabeth Luff Hulin had died after the birth of Alfred in 1859. There is also the possibility of there being two Enoch Baynham, but I've not found two in my research. Do you know of any other Enoch Baynhams?

Yet looking at my database;

In the 1861 Census of England and Wales Amelia Hulin was recorded as follows;

1861 Census - Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales RG 9/3987 - 86 - 12 - 77

Alms House Street

Amelia Hulin head of household, widowed female aged 50, Lodging House Keeper, born St Briavels, Gloucestershire; her daughter Elizabeth Baynham married female aged 26, Seamstress, born Llandogo, Monmouthshire; Philip George Baynham, grandson aged 5, Scholar, born Monmouth, Monmouthshire; Alfred Baynham grandson aged 17 months, born Monmouth, Monmouthshire; Jane Hulin unmarried daughter aged 15, House Servant, born Monmouth, Monmouthshire.

So that puts pay to my idea that Elizabeth was deceased.

1851 Scowles Newland
James Baynham abt 1805 Lea Bailey, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Baynham abt 1811 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland Gloucestershire
Emma Baynham abt 1839 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland Gloucestershire
Enoch Baynham abt 1836 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland Gloucestershire
Charles Baynham abt 1844 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland Gloucestershire
Thomas Baynham abt 1846 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland Gloucestershire

1861
Enock Baynham abt 1836 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Walsall Foreign Staffordshire
Ellen Baynham abt 1829 Stone, Staffordshire, England Wife Walsall Foreign Staffordshire

1871
Enock Baynham abt 1836 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Tipton Staffordshire
Ellen Baynham abt 1828 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Wife Tipton Staffordshire
Fanny Edwards abt 1848 West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England Visitor Tipton Staffordshire
Mary Handley abt 1857 Bilston, Staffordshire, England Niece Tipton Staffordshire

1881 4 Clarks Lane, Willenhall, Staffordshire, England
Enoch Baynam abt 1835 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head
Ellen Baynam abt 1831 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Wife

Name: Judith Baynham
Name: Robert Brannan
Year of Registration: 1906
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Doncaster
County: Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 1334

Name: Richard Baynham
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 47
District: Rotherham
County: Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 538

1901
Richard Baynham abt 1855 Gloucestershire, England Head West Melton, Yorkshire
Judith Hawkins Baynham abt 1858 Belper, Derbyshire, England Wife West Melton, Yorkshire
Richard Baynham abt 1884 Eckington, Derbyshire, England Son West Melton, Yorkshire
Thomas Baynham abt 1885 Riveton Park, Yorkshire, England Son West Melton, Yorkshire
William Baynham abt 1886 Kiveton Par, Yorkshire, England Son West Melton, Yorkshire
John Baynham abt 1887 Kiveton Par, Yorkshire, England Son West Melton, Yorkshire
Charles Baynham abt 1892 Alnwick, Northumberland, England Son West Melton, Yorkshire
Annie Baynham abt 1893 Hickleton, Yorkshire, England Daughter West Melton, Yorkshire
George Baynham abt 1895 Hickleton, Yorkshire, England Son West Melton, Yorkshire
Florence Baynham abt 1899 Bromhill Wombwell, Yorkshire, England Daughter West Melton, Yorkshire

1891
Richd Baynham abt 1845 Eckington, Derbyshire, England Head Gateshead, Durham
Judith Baynham abt 1857 Berper, Derbyshire, England Wife Gateshead, Durham
Richd Baynham abt 1884 Eckinton, Derbyshire, England Son Gateshead, Durham
Thomas Baynham abt 1886 Cevington Park, Yorkshire, England Son Gateshead, Durham
William Baynham abt 1888 Cevington Park, Yorkshire, England Son Gateshead, Durham
John Baynham abt 1889 Cevington Park, Yorkshire, England Son Gateshead, Durham

1881
Richard Baynam abt 1846 Gloucestershire, England Visitor Pentrich, Derbyshire

1881
Judith Hawkins abt 1855 Belper, Derbyshire, England Servant Spondon, Derbyshire

1861
Isaac Hawkins abt 1819 Belper, Derbyshire, England Head Ripley, Derbyshire
Rebecca Hawkins abt 1819 Belper, Derbyshire, England Wife Ripley, Derbyshire
Samuel Hawkins abt 1842 Belper, Derbyshire, England Son Ripley, Derbyshire
Joseph Hawkins abt 1844 Belper, Derbyshire, England Son Ripley, Derbyshire
George Hawkins abt 1845 Belper, Derbyshire, England Son Ripley, Derbyshire
Ann Hawkins abt 1846 Belper, Derbyshire, England Daughter Ripley, Derbyshire
Isaac Hawkins abt 1847 Belper, Derbyshire, England Son Ripley, Derbyshire
Mary Hawkins abt 1849 Belper, Derbyshire, England Daughter Ripley, Derbyshire
Rebecca Hawkins abt 1851 Belper, Derbyshire, England Daughter Ripley, Derbyshire
Vincent Hawkins abt 1853 Belper, Derbyshire, England Son Ripley, Derbyshire
Frances Hawkins abt 1855 Belper, Derbyshire, England Daughter Ripley, Derbyshire
Judith Hawkins abt 1856 Belper, Derbyshire, England Daughter Ripley, Derbyshire
Martha Hawkins abt 1859 Belper, Derbyshire, England Daughter Ripley, Derbyshire

Still living in the Scowles in 1861

1861 Newland Scowles
Elizabeth Baynham abt 1811 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Coleford and Newland Gloucestershire
Richard Baynham abt 1853 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Coleford and Newland Gloucestershire
Thomas Baynham abt 1847 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Coleford and Newland Gloucestershire
Charles Baynham abt 1847 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Coleford and Newland Gloucestershire

I think I have written to you previously elsewhere about Enoch Baynham, but for the sake of others who might be interested, Enoch Baynham (from my research) married Elizabeth Luff Hulin in 1856 in Monmouth. From what I can gather they had at least two children: Philip George Baynham (1856 - ?) and Alfred Baynham (1859 - 1909).

Philip George BAYNHAM
Occupation Hairdresser
Born at Monmouthshire, Wales in 1856, married Sarah MORRIS at Monmouthshire, Wales in 1891. Marriage registered in the September quarter of 1891 at Monmouth, Monmouthshire vol., 11a, page 61. They had the following children Ernest (1893-dec.)
Henry (1894-dec.)
Ruth (1895-dec.)
Sybil (1900-dec.)
Alexander (1901-dec.)

Alfred BAYNHAM born at Monmouthshire, Wales in 1859. Birth registered in the December quarter of 1859, at Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales vol., 11a, page 38. Married Emily MORRIS at Monmouthshire, Wales in 1884. Marriage registered in the September quarter of 1884 at Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales vol., 11a., page 82. He died in Monmouthshire, Wales in 1909. Death registered in the June quarter of 1909 aged 49 at Monmouth, Monmouthshire vol.,11a, page 17. They had the following children
Hubert (1886-dec.)
Fred (1887-dec.)
Lois (1892-dec.)

Elizabeth Luff HULIN aka Elizabeth Luff BAYNHAM was most likely born out of wedlock. Her mother was Amelia HULIN, Elizabeth was born at St Briavels, Gloucestershire, in 1835. She was baptised at St Briavels, Gloucestershire, on 26 Apr 1835.

My connection is through the Hulin family.

Cheers,