Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Seymour BAILY links to local area

Seymour BAILY links to local area (reply)

Elaine Bray — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:29:08 +0000

Hello Paul
I am very interested in the information you have on Edwin Seymour Bailey and am happy to reciprocate with what I have. I will email you
Elaine

Seymour BAILY links to local area (reply)

gallagher52 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:17:24 +0000

I reply to Edward Seymour baily sr is my 5gt grandfather interested in forest of dean link can supply you with a lot of information if interested on the Seymour /baily /turner lines as I am researching john turner banker of hatherly house and family at present some of your date on the family conflict with what I have which is good can compare note on the family's as the site could also help me with my research, regard Paul

Seymour BAILY links to local area (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:08:50 +0000

I'm wondering if the name "Edwin/Seymour Bailey" was pulled out of the air to avoid using "Edwin/Seymour Colchester" - Interestingly a well connected Seymour Baily family has connections to nearby ( 2 miles as the crow flys over Sandhurst Hill )Hatherly Manor / House http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2435485 ....

<><><><><>

John Baily of Sutton, Somerset. He married Mary Seymour in 1758 and had a son,
Edward Seymour Baily. John died in Chagford, Devon around 1785.

Edward Seymour BAILY was made a Commander of the Royal Navy on March 21st 1782 and
posted Oct 25 1809 . His only daughter Mary Jane married the Rev John Turner of Hatterley House Gloucestershire approx 1811( Son of a banker).
( which is Hatherley House , Down Hatherley http://www.downhatherleyhistory.moonfruit.com/#/hatherley-house/4545243916 )

Edward was married to Phyllis ROOKE

Edward Seymour Baily lived at Whiddon House Chagford Devon ( on Dartmoor)
http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/whiddon_park.htm

also a son ( Christened Gloucester not Bath as appears later)Edward Seymour Jnr.
name:Edward Baily
gender:Male
baptism/christening date: 08 Apr 1799
baptism/christening place:ST MICHAEL,GLOUCESTER,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
father's name:Edward Seymour Baily
mother's name:Phillis
indexing project (batch) number:C02634-2
system origin:England-ODM

1911
Name: Edward Evans
Age in 1911: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bath, Somerset
Civil parish: Chagford
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Whiddon Park House, Chagford, Devon
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Com R N Retired

Edward Seymour BAILY of 67 Castle Cres. Reading Berks
died 15th Feb 1886 proved by Edward Seymour EVANS of Whiddon park
Chagford, nr Newton Abbott Devon rtd Royal Navy Commander

Name: Edward Seymour Bailey
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1886
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Reading
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 266

1881
Edward S. Bailey abt 1800 Bath, Somerset, England Head St Mary, Berkshire

1861
Edward Baily abt 1800 Gloster, Gloucestershire, England Visitor Reading St Mary, Berkshire Landed Prop

1851
Edward Bailey abt 1799 Gloucestershire, England Visitor Wotton St Mary, Gloucestershire Landed Prop

Bastardy Bonds help (reply)

Elaine Bray — Tue, 08 Jan 2013 03:42:44 +0000

I've looked for possible Bastardy Bonds/Poor Law Records/Settlement records online for searchable records to no avail - yes I know, that was wishful thinking!

So it would appear I would have to go into Gloucestershire County Council offices, or whoever holds them, to do a physical search? Only one problem, I live on the other side of the world :) Is there anyone who reads this forum, or knows of someone that does lookups? Or can I request a lookup for a fee anywhere?

I'm thinking Edwin Seymour Bailey was illegitimate.

Thanks everyone for your help so far

BAILEY/SAVOURY??? (Edwin Bailey 1812 - Stonehouse) (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 23:08:33 +0000

It would seem, that when Edwin marries in 1842 - he knew the name of his father (who probably died in 1824 some 18 years earlier and probably was the farmer) - there must have been an adult around when Edwin was growing up who knew who his father was.

May be Bastardly Bonds/Poor Law Records/Settlement records - exist at the Gloucestershire Records Office?

BAILEY/SAVOURY??? (Edwin Bailey 1812 - Stonehouse) (reply)

Elaine Bray — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:08:53 +0000

Thanks for that M P Griffiths, that's looking outside the square :)

So with that information I am looking at this possible scenario:
Sarah Bailey Born 1796 from Brokenborough, Wiltshire,(taken from 1851 census) moved to Stonehouse, possibly because of work. She gave birth to Edwin Seymour there (date still unknown*), father unknown or Seymour Colchester. Sarah marries Joseph Savoury in 1821 at Stonehouse, so the presumption would be that Edwin was then born at Stonehouse, which matches the 1841 census.

* There is a birth record for Edwin Bailey born in 1812 to Sarah and Edwin Bailey at Stonehouse on Family Search, but this would have to be discounted as Sarah's maiden, not married name was Bailey.

name: Edwin Bailey
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 09 Aug 1812
baptism/christening place: STONEHOUSE,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Edwin Bailey
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Sarah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C03631-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 427781, 856954
reference number:

Also census 1861 would have to be ignored, where it states his birth place is Tirley

Stonebow Ashleworth (reply)

Elaine Bray — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 19:41:26 +0000

Just looking at Google maps, Nup End Lane where Colchester's farm is, and Ham Road where Stone Bow farm/cottage is, has them at about 500 metres apart as a crow flies.

Henry Surman was a witness to Edwin Bailey and Sarah Morgan's marriage, and Surmans occupied Stone Bow Farm at one stage

Thanks for that slowhands, certainly food for thought

BAILEY/SAVOURY??? (Edwin Bailey 1812 - Stonehouse) (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:12:45 +0000

This is a bit early - unless Edwin lied about his age

Baptism at Stonehouse - 9 August 1812 - Edwin BAILEY - parents Edwin & Sarah

----------

Just had a look on Public Members Tree

and Sarah SAVOURY's daughter - Hannah married Samuel HUDSON - in 1846...

1851 Census, Wiltshire, Westport St Mary

Samuel HUDSON - 30 - General Dealer, born Westport
Hannah HUDSON - 24
Sarah - 3
Saml - 1 month
Sarah SAROSY - mother-in-law - age 60 - born Brokenboro
Mary SAROSY - 18 - lace maker, born Westport

----

This public members tree quote the death of the father :

Joseph SAVOURY - in 1839 - Malmesbury age 70

----

so the marriage I gave in the previous reply at Stonehouse

i.e. Sarah BAILEY married Joseph SAVOURY - 23 March 1821 - seems to link up.

----

This would seem to place the only BAILEY in Stonehouse, Glos around the time of the birth of Edwin - and Sarah BAILEY was born in Wiltshire - so probably could have been working as a servant.

Edwin LANE 1810 base born Ashleworth (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 12:04:18 +0000

Year 1816
Month Dec
Day 15
Parents Surname LANE
Child Forenames Edwin
Fathers Forenames [not stated]
Mothers Forenames Elizabeth
Mothers Surname
Residence Ashelworth [sic]
Occupation Farmer
Officiating Minister James Commeline Jun[io]r
Event Baptism
Memoranda Base born April 5th 1810
Notes
Register Reference P20 IN 1/3
Page Number 8
Parish Chapel Ashleworth

and a sister

Year 1817
Month Aug
Day 3
Parents Surname LANE
Child Forenames Mary Anne
Fathers Forenames [not stated]
Mothers Forenames Elizabeth
Mothers Surname
Residence Ashelworth [sic]
Occupation
Officiating Minister L Mansel
Event Baptism
Memoranda Base born
Notes
Register Reference P20 IN 1/3
Page Number 9
Parish Chapel Ashleworth

<><>
I think he can be ruled out

1841
Edwin Lane abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Comfort Lane abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Lane abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Tophrik Lane abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Edwin Lane abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
William Lane abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
John Lane abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Hanah Hopkins abt 1784 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

1851
Edwin Lane abt 1811 Ashleworth, Gloucestershire, England Visitor Painswick, Gloucestershire

Stonebow Ashleworth (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 09:50:47 +0000

just a lateral thought - did the enumerator think he heard Stonehouse ???

Stonebow Farm Ashleworth ?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/showmap.php?gridref=SO82392576

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3095969

1909 land survey
http://www.glos1909survey.org.uk/code/data.php?id=18520

The Woodpeckers played cricket there a few years back
http://www.woodpeckerscc.co.uk/history/chapter1.php

Stonebow cottage ?

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-134298-stonebow-cottage-ashleworth-gloucestersh

2 births in transcribed records

1878 NICHOLLS Eliza Charles Eliza Cottage near Stonebow[?]
Farm Ashleworth Labourer Ashleworth
1880 NICHOLLS Emily Charles Eliza Cottage near Stonebow[?]
Farm Ashleworth Labourer Ashleworth

one death

1930 SURMAN Joseph Stonebow Ashleworth 90 Hasfield

and one marriage
1921 MOXON Harold Chattcombe Rectory Somerset
SURMAN Martha Henrietta Stonebow Ashleworth Ashleworth

<><><><>
[no title] D1326/T4 1792-1869
These documents are held at Gloucestershire Archives

Contents:
Freehold and copyhold properties in Ashleworth (plans), including messuage called the Steps, Stone Bow Farm, part of Colway's Farm and Barrow Farm with land and property in Ashleworth (acre-ages; field names; abuttals), and right of fishery in the River Severn at Hasfield, with copies of court roll of the Manor of Ashleworth, abstracts of title and schedules of deeds, 1806 - 1864, agreement relating to rent charges on the Manor of Ashleworth, 1864, deeds and papers relating to enfranchisement of and surveys of Lower Field Farm, Hasfield and Stone Bow Farm, Ashleworth, 1867.
Includes copy will of William Taylor of Ashleworth, yeoman, 1809.
Original bundle order

<><><><><><><

1911 Stone Bow farm
Joseph Surman 71 Ashleworth
M H Surman 39 hasfield
Margaret Lane 47
Doris Taylor 14

1901 Stonebow farm
Joseph Surman abt 1840 Ashleworth, Gloucestershire, England Head Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Ann Surman abt 1844 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Martha H Surman abt 1872 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Stonebow cottage
Margaret Lance abt 1864 Birmingham Niece Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

1891
Joseph Surman abt 1840 Ashleworth, Gloucestershire, England Head Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Anne Surman abt 1844 Hartpury, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Eva Surman abt 1864 Ashleworth, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
W J Surman abt 1867 Ashleworth, Gloucestershire, England Son Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
M H Surman abt 1872 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Agnes Randle abt 1873 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Servant Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

1881 Stone Bow Farm
Joseph Surman abt 1840 Ashelworth, Gloucestershire, England Head Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Anne Surman abt 1844 Hartpury, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Francis Surman abt 1863 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Son Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Margrit H. Surman abt 1872 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

1871 Stone Bow
John Voyce 39 Farmer Ashleworth
Sarah Voyce 35
Agnes Voyce 10
Clinton Voyce 7
Ralph Voyce 4

1861 StoneBow
Eliza Clutterbuck abt 1811 Terley, Gloucestershire, England Head Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
William C Clutterbuck abt 1842 St Mary De Coytt, Gloucestershire, England Son Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Eliza Organ abt 1831 Upton St Leonard, Gloucestershire, England Servant Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

1851
(very hard to identify properties in Ashleworth)

Year: 1843
Month: Jul
Day: 27
Surname: ALLEN
Forenames: John
Residence: Ashelworth [sic]
Age_at_death: 79
Officiating_Minister: H A S Atwood Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P20 IN 1/7
Page_No: 42
Parish_Chapel: Ashleworth

1841 Stone Bow
John Allen abt 1764 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Mary Allen abt 1779 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
John Dent abt 1823 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Caroline Price abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Amealia Carter abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

earlier offspring (?) no proof at Stone Bow
1799 ALLEN Mary Anne John Mary Ashleworth
1803 ALLEN Elizabeth John Mary Ashleworth
1804 ALLEN Anne John Mary Ashleworth Hasfield

<><><> SURMAN
1851
William Surman abt 1804 Ashelworth, Gloucestershire, England Head Ashleworth, Gloucestershire farmer
Henrietta Surmanabt 1804 Ashelworth, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Wm Surman abt 1837 Ashelworth, Gloucestershire, England Son Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Joseph Surman abt 1840 Ashelworth, Gloucestershire, England Son Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Faylor abt 1793 Ashelworth, Gloucestershire, England Visitor Ashleworth, Gloucestershire

Year: 1803
Month: Jul
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: SURMAN
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Thomas Johnes
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P20 IN 1/2
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Ashleworth

Year: 1809
Month: Aug
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: SURMAN
Child_Forenames: Henry
Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Hasfield
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Saunders William Miller B.A.
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P166 IN 1/5
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Hasfield

BAILEY/SAVOURY??? (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 09:15:15 +0000

'tossing this in'

Had a look at the 1851 census for any other BAILEY born in Stonehouse, around that time

and on the 1851 census for Wiltshire, Malmesbury St Paul there is in Gloucester Street

John BAILEY aged 36, Ag. Lab - born Gloucestershire, Stonehouse
Jane - 39 - born Wilts, Malmesbury
Frederick - 16 (there is a Frederick BAILEY buried at Stonehouse 3 May 1834 age 16 = c1818)
Henry - 14
Susan - 11
Alfred - 8
Sarah - 6
Eliza - 1

Looking at the 1841 census to find this family -

Wiltshire, St Mary, Westport - District 3 - page 8/9

John BAYLEY - 25, Ag Lab - all born in County
Jane - 25
Fred - 6
Henry - 4
Susan - 1

just above them is.....

Sarah SAVORY - 55 - Washerwoman - all born in County
Hannah - 15
Mary - 9

---

? Interesting is that on the Gloucestershire CD for Stonehouse

Sarah BAILEY married Joseph SAVOURY - 23 March 1821 - Can't see any other BAILEY marriage in Stonehouse

COLCHESTER farm and family Ashleworth (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 01:26:26 +0000

In 1798 a small freehold estate of 43 a belonged to Stephen Colchester, of a
family settled in the parish from 1686, whose members were copyholders
during the 18th century. The estate descended from Stephen Colchester
(d.1846) to his daughter Ann (d.1882). Their farmhouse, named Colchester’s
Farm in 1884 and 1887, was owned in 1909 and later by Walter Hyett,
when it was known as Yew Tree Farm. It was renamed Colchester’s Farm by R.
S. Follett (d.1941), its owner in 1935. His daughter, Susan Follett, was owner
in 1994.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/showmap.php?gridref=SO8126

Ashleworth

....and two farms, Colchester’s and Harper’s, opposite each other.
Colchester’s, formerly Yew Tree Farm,(pre 1871) is a large brick Georgian house;

modern address
Colchesters Farm, The Village, Ashleworth, Gloucester GL19 4JG

COLCHESTER family tomb
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-134315-colchester-monument-in-the-churchyard-ab

Tombstone
Stephen COLCHESTER, Gent
of this parish, 1 November 1746, 49
William COLCHESTER, nephew of above
of this parish, 12 November 1761, 50
Joshua COLCHESTER, s/o Stephen & Ann
died in infancy
Ann, w, [looks like 10 December 1849,]

Seymour COLCESTER 1784 Ashelworth (reply)

Elaine Bray — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 00:44:04 +0000

Hmmm, yes that 1851 census is a bugbear! Everything else in that census record fits perfectly, except where he was supposedly born. Maybe he didn't really know where he was born because of the circumstances of his birth? For example his mother possibly not on the scene after his birth (early death?), or if only his father brought him up, and/or the possibility he was illegitimate and/or Seymour Colchester being his step father rather than biological father.

The plot thickens! Come on you Sherlock Holmes's out there, help me out :)

Edwin / Seymour BAILEY 1811 - 1865 ish Hasfield/Tirley (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 00:16:45 +0000

Thanks, that confirms what I had, So that pretty much eliminates William Seymour Colchester being the same person as Seymour Colchester. This looks like it's going to be a process of elimination.

Slowhands, no luck on anything else re Edwin Seymour Bailey? I did find a FamilySearch record, a short time ago, with an Edwin Bailey being born 8th August 1812, Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, but this named his parents as Edwin Bailey and Sarah. If this is MY Edwin Seymour Bailey then I'm completely bamboozled about his marriage record naming Seymour Colchester as his father.

Instinct says that Stonehouse is probably the wrong area, Hartpury/Hasfield/Tirley/Deerhurst seems a far better fit...( although 1851 tends to fly in the face of that !)

name: Edwin Bailey
gender:Male
baptism/christening date:09 Aug 1812
baptism/christening place: STONEHOUSE,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND

father's name:Edwin Bailey
mother's name:Sarah

indexing project (batch) number:C03631-2
system origin:England-ODM
source film number:427781, 856954

1841
Seymour Baylis abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Hasfield, Gloucestershire

Year: 1842
Month: Jun
Day: 19
Grooms_Surname: BAILEY
Grooms_Forenames: Edwin Seymour
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Laborer
Grooms_Residence: Hasfield
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Colchester
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Seymour
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Surname: MORGAN
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Hasfield
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Morgan
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Laborer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: James Bray
Witness_2: Henry Surman
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: James Sevier Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P166 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 5
Parish_Chapel: Hasfield

1851
Semour Bailey abt 1816 Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, England Head Corse, Gloucestershire
Sarah Bailey abt 1822 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Wife Corse, Gloucestershire
Louisa Bailey abt 1843 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Corse, Gloucestershire
Ann Bailey abt 1849 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Corse, Gloucestershire

1861
Seymore Bailey abt 1812 Tirley, Gloucestershire, England Head Tirley, Gloucestershire
Sarah Bailey abt 1822 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Wife Tirley, Gloucestershire
Ann Bailey abt 1849 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Tirley, Gloucestershire
Albert Bailey abt 1852 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Son Tirley, Gloucestershire
Sophia Bailey abt 1855 Hasfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Tirley, Gloucestershire
Jessie Bailey abt 1858 Tirley, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Tirley, Gloucestershire
Edwin Bailey abt 1860 Tirley, Gloucestershire, England Son Tirley, Gloucestershire

1842 BAILEY William Seymour Edwin Seymour Sarah Hasfield Laborer [sic] Hasfield
1843 BAILEY Louisa Edwin Seymour Sarah Hasfield Laborer [sic] Hasfield
1845 BAILEY Margaret Ann Edwin Seymour Sarah Hasfield Laborer [sic] Hasfield
1848 BAILEY Ann Edwin Seymour Sarah Hasfield Laborer [sic] Hasfield
1851 BAILEY Albert Edwin Seymour Sarah Corse Labourer Corse
1857 BAILEY Jessie Ernin Seymour Sarah Tirley labourer Tirley
1862 BAILEY Edwin Seymour Edwin Seymour Sarah Tirley labourer Tirley
1862 BAILEY Joseph Edwin Seymour Sarah Tirley labourer Tirley

Name: Seymore Bailey
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1865
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 275

Year: 1865
Month: Jun
Day: 20
Surname: BAYLEY
Forenames: Seymour
Residence: Hasfield
Age_at_death: 54
Officiating_Minister: Hemming Robeson Off[iciatin]g Minister
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P166 IN 1/8
Page_No: 43
Parish_Chapel: Hasfield

seems to tie into this
http://genforum.genealogy.com/bubb/messages/180.html

Stephen COLCESTER 1758 Ashelworth (reply)

Elaine Bray — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 00:07:31 +0000

Thanks, that confirms what I had, So that pretty much eliminates William Seymour Colchester being the same person as Seymour Colchester. This looks like it's going to be a process of elimination.

Slowhands, no luck on anything else re Edwin Seymour Bailey? I did find a FamilySearch record, a short time ago, with an Edwin Bailey being born 8th August 1812, Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, but this named his parents as Edwin Bailey and Sarah. If this is MY Edwin Seymour Bailey then I'm completely bamboozled about his marriage record naming Seymour Colchester as his father.

Stephen COLCESTER 1758 -1846 yeoman Ashleworth (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 23:48:49 +0000

from 1811 Poll book

Name: Seymour Colchester
Poll Year: 1811
Hundred: Berkeley
Parish or Rectory: Ashelworth
County: Gloucestershire

Year: 1824
Month: Nov
Day: 15
Surname: COLCHESTER
Forenames: Seymour
Residence: Ashelworth [sic]
Age_at_death: 40
Officiating_Minister: Rob[er]t Smith Off[iciatin]g Min[ister]
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P20 IN 1/7
Page_No: 16
Parish_Chapel: Ashleworth

name:Seymour Colchester
gender: Male
baptism/christening date:27 Jul 1784
baptism/christening place:ASHLEWORTH,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name:Stephen Colchester
ather's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name:Ann
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number:C02666-1
system origin:England-ODM
source film number:394448, 417109

Year: 1846
Month: Sep
Day: 3
Surname: COLCHESTER
Forenames: Stephen
Residence: Ashelworth [sic]
Age_at_death: 88
Officiating_Minister: H A S Atwood
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P20 IN 1/7
Page_No: 47
Parish_Chapel: Ashleworth

1841 Nup End
Stephen Colekester abt 1761 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire Yeoman
Ann Colekester abt 1756 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Stephen Maynard Colekester abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Ann Colekester abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Soloman Minett abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Samuel Blackmore abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
Pistichence Walkley abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Ashleworth, Gloucestershire
groom's name:Stephen Colchester
bride's name:Anne Pritchard

marriage date 04 May 1782
marriage place:Bridstow,Hereford,England
indexing project (batch) number:M13862-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 992638

Year: 1758
Month: Mar
Day: 2
Parents_Surname: COLCHESTER
Child_Forenames: Stephen
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Joseph Gegg
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P20 IN 1/1
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Ashleworth

Edwin Seymour BAILEY B abt1817 D1865 Gloucestershire (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:52:03 +0000

I've had a look at my Gloucestershire Baptism Index from 1813 - the BAYLISS family name is in Tirley - but no births for Edwin - but Stonehouse - doesn't appear to have have BAYLISS families.

---

William BAYLISS married Ann LAMBERT 31 December 1827 Tirley

Edwin Seymour BAILEY B abt1817 D1865 Gloucestershire (reply)

Elaine Bray — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:49:43 +0000

Thanks for that. I'm not sure how and if that fits in with the Seymour/Bailey family. Seymour Colchester's paternal grandmother was Sarah Seymour, hence the Seymour name through to later generations. But Seymour Colchester's father. Stephen,(married to Ann Pritchard) doesn't appear to have a son (who would be a brother to Seymour) named William Seymour. I doubt that William Seymour and Seymour are the same person. But I could be wrong!

Edwin Seymour BAILEY B abt1817 D1865 Gloucestershire (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 21:48:41 +0000

For starters Just looking at my Gloucestershire CD's - the baptisms start from 1813

---

Not sure if this helps....

Looking at the Burial Index - there is a

William Seymour COLCHESTER, died age 30 - 29 December 1843 at Gloucester (seems to have left a Will according to the Gloucestershire Records Office - occupation: Hatter - 1844/146)

and a

William Seymour COLCHESTER, died age 7w - 3 April 1845 - St James Glos. 2 Victoria Street - Looking at Gloucestershirebdm - mother's maiden name: FRISBY - South Hamlet, Gloucestershire.

---

On Ancestry - UK Poll Books & Electoral Register 1811

Ashleworth

Seymour COLCHESTER, House & Lands - Looking at the Church of Latter Day Saints, his father was Stephen COLCHESTER

Edwin Seymour BAILEY B abt1817 D1865 Gloucestershire

Elaine Bray — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 20:15:34 +0000

Edwin Seymour BAILEY married Sarah MORGAN 19 June 1842, as per Forest of Dean transcript.
On the transcript it states his father is Seymour COLCHESTER. Forest of Dean transcripts show only one Seymour Colchester, who was born 1784 and died 1824, making Edwin 7 years old when his father died. I cannot find any records of Seymour Colchester having married.

Given that father and son's surnames are different, what scenarios and likelihoods can I take from this? Was Seymour Colchester possibly his stepfather, rather than his biological father? Was his mother's surname Bailey, and Edwin Seymour Bailey was illegitimate.

I could not find any census records for Edwin (Seymour) Bailey, though I found the following:

Census 1841
Name: Seymour Baylis
[Seymour Bailey]
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Hasfield
Hundred: Westminster (Lower Division)
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Deerhurst
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 369
Book: 10
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Seymour Baylis 20

Note: His future wife Sarah Morgan is on the same census page so this is likely to be him

Census 1851
Name: Semour Bailey
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Bailey
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Corse
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Newent
Sub-registration district: Newent
ED, institution, or vessel: 7b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Piece: 1960
Folio: 429
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Semour Bailey 35
Sarah Bailey 29
Louisa Bailey 8
Ann Bailey 2

Census 1861
Name: Seymore Bailey
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Bailey
Gender: Male
Where born: Tirley, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Tirley
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Deerhurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 44
Piece: 1804
Folio: 7
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Seymore Bailey 49
Sarah Bailey 39
Ann Bailey 12
Albert Bailey 9
Sophia Bailey 6
Jessie Bailey 3
Edwin Bailey 5 Months

Note: 1851 census shows place of birth as Stonehouse, 1861 as Tirley

Seymour Bailey died 1865 aged 54, Hasfield Gloucester, I can't find any record of a death for Edwin Seymour Bailey, This would make his birth about 1811, so big discrepancies in estimated birth dates on the censuses.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to go from here? What assumption, if any, can I make regarding the different surnames of father and son?