Forest of Dean FHT Forum - James THOMAS, Haworth "woolcomber" & "grease refiner"

James THOMAS, Haworth "woolcomber" & "grease refiner" (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 15 May 2013 17:12:02 +0000

It seems James was perhaps a technically-minded man of my own heart with his jobs in engineering-related industry, which is perhaps why he left the Forest rather than go down the pit ?. Without in any way knocking the herculean efforts of the equally skilled but poorly rewarded colliers, I hope and trust he had a healthier and perhaps more prosperous life because of this. Certainly he'd arrived in Yorkshire when the "dark satanic mills" of Manchester & Bradford were beginning to become safer workplaces and some mill owners were taking great care of their valued employees, the most extreme example being at Saltaire.
http://www.saltaire.yorks.com/
Spare a moment to remember precisely two hundred years ago seventeen "Luddites" were executed for trying to prevent loom mechanisation in the West Yorkshire wool industry before the Industrial Revolution changed the world forever.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/politics/g3/

In case anyone's wondering what a woolcomber was, this "hit" when searching "Haworth & grease" makes interesting reading, a very nicely-presented personal FH website indeed.

"Woolcombing by hand demanded strength and skill and necessitated keeping the room stove burning day and night. It all smelled of putrid hot oils for they worked "in the grease": with the lanolin still in the wool. The smell of lanolin clung to your clothing and made the floors slippery, though they did joke it gives you lovely soft hands!

Combing's purpose is to force the fibre staples parallel to each other, butt-end to tip. The product is called a wool top, ropelike in apearance. With further combing it is called a sliver (rhymes with diver) and is ready for spinning.

In 1823 the Townend Brothers of Cullingworth invented a machine to spin worsted heald but it did not take-on. Hand woolcombing was peaking in 1851 when the first succesful machine was developed by Heilmann and Holden of Oakworth. Even so the 1861 census still lists some hand-combers in Exley Head."

From the excellent
http://www.davidkidd.net/Exley_Head_History_Yorkshire_Village.html

Re James' later job of "grease refiner", c/o the ever helpfull Genuki site is this 1901 Census from Pudsey not too far from Haworth. As can be seen Pudsey's population was then hugely reliant on the worsted wool trade but I can only see one grease refiner, Alfred Hargreaves. Was it a speciallist "niche" job which could demand good reward, or an obsolete one which was on the downturn ?.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Census/1901/Pudsey1901Census_EnumerationDistr...

Haworth is probably most famous for being the home of the Bronte sisters, whose work my wife particularly admires. I wonder if James and his family knew anything of them or more likely their descendants ??.
http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/brontes/bronte_story/bronte_story.asp

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Years ago at work I had to source some very hi-tech grease for a demanding helicopter gearbox-bearing application. I wasn't surprised to find the best available product was of German manuafacture as they had instigated the growth of synthetic oils & greases in the 1930s & 40s due to their own lack of natural resources. However I was surprised to find their UK distributor was in scenic green Yorkshire# rather than a more "obvious" engineering centre, although it did make for a delightful overnite visit much better than the norm. When asked why they were there and not perhaps in nearby Bradford, I found it was to be nearer the local textile mills whose machinery has umpteen greased bearings which must rotate nonstop at high-speed for many thousands of hours without fail (which is invariably due to grease/oil failure). No doubt in Victorian times when there were more mills and less capable greases they would literally have used "tons of the stuff" on a far more intensive replenishing basis, so greasing remained important despite no longer referring to the fabric-combing process itself. Whether the earlier looms were lubricated by greases removed from the wool I'm unsure, I suspect such a clever system was only practical for the slower hand looms before they grew into ever-more complex steam-driven machines from about 1860 onwards.

# Indeed the above company's UK address was and still is just a few miles south of Haworth, a beautiful place to work !

HOUGH MILLS,
Northowram, Halifax,
West Yorkshire
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/630921

Their website illustrates how their business is still very much textiles-based.
http://www.klueber.com/en/applications/industry/textile-industry/#20621

Peter THOMAS & James THOMAS born 1850 & 1852 Cinderford (reply)

shepway — Wed, 15 May 2013 14:03:47 +0000

Just to add to Jeff's findings:

PETER THOMAS
1881 Census:
6 Woodside Road, Flaxley
Peter Thomas abt 1850 Cinderford (East Dean), Gloucestershire Head
Fanny Thomas abt 1854 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife
Ann Thomas abt 1873 Cinderford Daughter
Elizth. Thomas abt 1875 Cinderford Daughter
Sydney Thomas abt 1877 Cinderford Son

1891 Census:
Cinderford Tump
Peter Thomas bt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Coal Miner East Dean, Gloucestershire
Fanny Thomas abt 1853 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sydney Thomas abt 1877 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Miriam Thomas abt 1885 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Peter Thomas abt 1888 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Arnold Thomas abt 1891 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

1901 Census:
St Whites Road, Cinderford
Peter Thomas abt 1844 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Assurance Agent - Pearl East Dean, Gloucestershire
Fanny Thomas abt 1852 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Miriam Thomas abt 1885 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Peter Thomas abt 1888 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Arnold Thomas abt 1891 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Leah Thomas abt 1894 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1911 Census:
1 London Villas, St Whites Road, Cinderford
Peter Thomas 61 Head Assurance Canvasser and Collector Cinderford, Glos
Fanny Thomas 58 Wife Cinderford, Glos
Martha Mallard 69 Visitor

Possible death of Peter:
Deaths Dec 1911
Thomas Peter 63 Westbury S. 6a 329

Fanny's burial:
Year: 1926
Month: Jan
Day: 13
Surname: THOMAS
Forenames: Fanny
Residence: Cinderford
Age_at_death: 72
Officiating_Minister: F W Baldwin Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 103
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John

JAMES THOMAS
1891 Census:
47 Wesley Place, Bingley, Yorkshire
James Thomas bt 1850 Oldcroft, Gloucestershire, England Head/Woolcomber
Ann J Thomas abt 1851 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife
Annie Thomas abt 1872 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Elizabeth Thomas abt 1874 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Mary A Thomas abt 1876 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Rhoda Thomas abt 1878 Leicester, Lancashire, England Daughter
Minnie Thomas abt 1880 Leicester, Lancashire, England Daughter
James H Thomas abt 1883 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son
Emma Thomas abt 1885 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Adeline Thomas abt 1888 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Florence E Thomas abt 1890 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter

1901 Census:
9 Cecil Street, Haworth, Yorkshire
James Thomas abt 1850 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Head/Grease Refiner
Ann J Thomas abt 1851 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife
Rhoda Thomas abt 1878 Leicester, Leicestershire, England Daughter
Minnie Thomas abt 1880 Leicester, Leicestershire, England Daughter
James H Thomas abt 1883 Cinderford, Glos, England Son
Emma M Thomas abt 1885 Cinderford, Glos, England Daughter
Adeline Thomas abt 1888 Cinderford, Glos, England Daughter
Florence H Thomas abt 1891 Cinderford, Yorkshire, England Daughter
Frederich J Thomas abt 1894 Haworth, Yorkshire, England Son
Wilfred E Thomas abt 1895 Haworth, Yorkshire, England Son
Lucy Selby abt 1881 Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, England Boarder

1911 Census:
18 Duke Street. Haworth, Yorkshire
James Thomas 61
Ann Jane Thomas 40
Florence Allen Thomas 20
Fredrick John Thomas 17
Wilfred Ernest Thomas

Deaths Mar 1934
Thomas James 84 Keighley 9a 260

Deaths Sep 1918
Thomas Ann J 67 Keighley 9a 231

Mike

Peter & James Thomas born c1850 Cinderford (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 15 May 2013 12:01:21 +0000

Hi Sam,
no, not too many questions at all, only too pleased to help such a friendly gent as you !. However in future may I suggest you could have posted this enquiry attached to your earlier thread about Samuel, just to make easier reading/understanding for us all, thanks. see
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=40945

Anyhow moving on, don't know if you know but if you're not a subscriber to the "big" Census websites (I'm not), Census info can still be obtained for free from the LDS site, plus you can get many clues by using the free search aspect of Ancestry for example. The great advantage of the 1881 Census, unlike t'others, is that it's free to search AND VIEW full households on both these sites. However in the case of Ancestry as soon as you stray away from the free search it will request payment, and start making life tricky by omitting key parts of their findings. However a slightly cut-down Ancestry is available f-o-c at your public UK Library.

Hence searching Peter b1850 gives the following on LDS, altho clearly not the rarest of names I suspect this is "your" Peter altho the marriage needs checking out as should give his parents etc. That said on this site's PRs I can only see four Peter Thomas's Marriage Records and neither appear to be yours.

"England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: Peter Thomas
Age (Original): 31
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1850
Birthplace: Cinderford (East Dean), Gloucestershire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner
Address: 6 Woodside Rd
Event Place: Flaxley, Gloucestershire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341609
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 2524 / 102
Page Number: 2
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Peter Thomas M 31 Cinderford (East Dean), Gloucestershire, England
Wife Fanny Thomas F 27 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Daughter Ann Thomas F 8 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Daughter Elizth Thomas F 6 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Son Sydney Thomas M 4 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3BC-84P

In this instance I see on LDS there are several James' to look thro but on face value I think this is yours albeit clearly has moved away presumably for work ?. Again this is from the LDS (Church of LatterDay Saints, aka "Family Search" site, a truly excellent resource).

"England and Wales Census, 1881
Name: James Thomas
Age (Original): 31
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1850
Birthplace: Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Railway Shunter
Address: 72 William St
Event Place: Leicester St Margaret, Leicestershire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341754
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3161 / 96
Page Number: 25
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head James Thomas M 31 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Wife Ann J Thomas F 30 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Daughter Annie Thomas F 9 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Daughter Elizabeth Thomas F 7 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Daughter Mary A Thomas F 5 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Daughter Rodah Thomas F 3 Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Daughter Minnie Thomas F 1 Leicester, Leicestershire, England

As ever their quoted birthdates are prone to vary as these are what was told to the Census official at the time, so relied on people's good memories plus honesty (many people gained or lost years dependant on their "vanity" etc, particlarly as they got older or if a wife was actually older than her husband).

Again I ask you to thoroughly check out these suggestions as sadly I've got far less pleasurable chores to do this afternoon, I would much prefer to be helping you. In this instance James Thomas is a far more "common" name with several PRs on this FoD sites database, altho so far I've not managed to find either brothers' Baptisms or Marriages even by using the marvellous "advanced search" feature. Perhaps they're Non Conformists, so try GlosBMD site which is also free and very good;
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx

Birth Details

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
THOMAS Peter THOMAS THOMAS BARNARD 1849 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 9 317

Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
THOMAS Peter POWELL Fanny Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1872 4 129
(As I'm sure you know the FoD site is PR based, ie Church Parish Records, so does not list Registry Office Records such as these).

AND:

Birth Details

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
THOMAS James THOMAS THOMAS BARNARD 1851 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 11 157

Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
THOMAS James MERRIMAN Ann Jane Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1871 4 77

Hope this is correct altho I have rushed it which is never ideal son please check it out. Without wishing to be telling you how to suck the proverbial eggs, this prior thread will help if you're new to the various free-access websites mentioned above.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35296

Sadly the supermarket awaits, horror!!!, so I'll wish you well in your continued search today. Also that you have success and fine weather when visiting the Baptist Chapel and you find your ancestors' resting places.

ttfn (as a fellow Cinderfordian used to say,
Jeff.

Peter THOMAS & James THOMAS born 1850 & 1852 Cinderford (reply)

samthebarber — Wed, 15 May 2013 08:50:50 +0000

Please can someone tell me what happened to Peter Thomas & James Thomas born 1850 & 1852 they were on the 1871 census but not on the 1881, could either or both have emigrated to New Zealand prior to the emigration of Sydney Aaron Thomas in 1913, I hope I am not asking too much,
Thank you

Samthebarber

Cinderford Baptist Chapel & Cemetery - prior thread (reply)

samthebarber — Tue, 14 May 2013 15:42:43 +0000

Thanks Jeff for all that information very much appreciated, I hope to get up there on the 27th of the month for a look around, I will have plenty of time over 4 days.
thanks again Samthebarber

Cinderford Baptist Chapel & Cemetery - prior thread (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 14 May 2013 00:05:44 +0000

This CD produced by the Glos FHS should include Transcripts of the Grave Memorials at the Baptist Church amongst many others in the County. I'm pleased to say that following an enquiry here last year and subsequent enquiries to the Glos FHS, they have now amended this list - it used to show Cinderford St Johns too which was an error. I do hope this survey will help.
http://gfhs.org.uk/products-page/cddvd/monumental-inscription-2003-2/

This prior post gives more detail and photos of the Baptist Chapel and it's attached Cemetery.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=23938

I have very fond memories of the Chapel as it was the venue for Bilson Primary school's Annual Christmas Carol Concert, the climax of many festive fun activities which I always loved as they led up to Christmas Day. I recall the whole School walking up there en-crocodile for daytime practice and being in awe of it's size, particularly if we got the coveted seats high in the balcony which I think wrapped all around the compact Hall. The School wasn't Baptist as such, I presume we used it as it was the biggest such venue available in Cinderford (late 60s, early 70s) and offered better acoustics and viewing than our family Church St Stephens for example; happy days !.

Samuel THOMAS 1823 - 1893 WoS and Cinderford (reply)

samthebarber — Mon, 13 May 2013 16:49:14 +0000

Thanks to Slowhands for the very useful bit of information about my G,G,granfathers burial location, very much appreciated.
Samthebarber

Samuel THOMAS : Documents & Articles (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 13 May 2013 16:03:10 +0000

Origins & History of the Baptist Church Cinderford (Fod Documents & Articles)

Mentions the THOMAS family and

'In Memory of my dear father, Samuel Thomas, an early member, teacher and deacon by Peter Thomas, Ruspidge' - also James Thomas Nelson, New Zeland

www.forest-of-dean.net/downloads/Stories_Articles/Baptist_Church_Cinderford.pdf

Samuel THOMAS : 30 July 1893 (Probate) (reply)

Jefff — Mon, 13 May 2013 15:58:56 +0000

Also on this site;

Details of Will

Surname THOMAS
First Name Samuel
Abode Bilson Green East Dean
Occupation Checkweighman
Year Proved 1893
Page Number 279
Year of Death 1893
Month of Death Jul
Day of Death 11
Value Under £29
Document Will
Notes
Will Number Will_02568

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/wills/search_testator.html

Samuel THOMAS : 30 July 1893 (Probate) (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 13 May 2013 15:51:32 +0000

Ancestry

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Adminstration)

THOMAS Samuel of Bilson green East Dean Gloucestershire checkweighman died 11 July 1893 Probate Gloucester 19 September to Peter Thomas Collier and Aaron Thomas mercantile clerk Effects £28 2s.

Samuel THOMAS 1823 - 1893 WoS and Cinderford (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 13 May 2013 15:39:03 +0000

Please could someone help me, I am trying to find the Burial location of Samuel Thomas b1825 MARRIED Eunice Barnard 1847 , Died 1893 in Ruspidge Glos;.
Samuel was a founder member of the English Baptist Chapel he was also an Iron Miner

With Eunice perhaps ?

Year: 1899
Month: Feb
Day: 14
Surname: THOMAS
Forenames: Eunice
Residence: Bilson Green
Age_at_death: 74 Y[ears]
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Entry followed by 0 and ED
Register_Reference: PA 85/3
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford Baptist

Name: Samuel Thomas
Probate Date: 19 Sep 1893
Death Date: 11 Jul 1893
Death Place: Gloucestershire, England
Registry: Gloucester

Name: Samuel Thomas
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1893
Age at Death: 70
Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 137

1891 Bilson Green
Samuel Thomas abt 1823 Westbury on Severn, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eunice Thomas abt 1825 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Frank Simo [SIMS] abt 1882 Great Houghton, Yorkshire, England Grandson East Dean, Gloucestershire

1881
Samuel Thomas abt 1823 Ruspidge, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Enice Thomas abt 1826 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Aaron Thomas abt 1866 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Samuel Thomas abt 1868 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Miriam Thomas abt 1871 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

1871
Samuel Thomas 40
Unice Thomas 44
Peter Thomas 21
James Thomas 19
John Thomas 16
Aaron Thomas 5
Samuel Thomas 4
Meriam Thomas 8 Months

1861 little dean hill
Samuel Thomas abt 1823 Westbury, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire Coal Miner
Emma Thomas abt 1835 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Peter Thomas abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Thomas abt 1855 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Thomas abt 1852 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Rodah Thomas abt 1853 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Thomas abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Thomas abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1851
Samuel Thomas abt 1824 Westbury, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eunice Thomas abt 1827 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Peter Thomas abt 1850 Cinderford E Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Thomas abt 1851 E Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

THOMAS Samuel
BARNARD Eunice
Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office
1847 1 20

1841 Cinderford
Joseph Thomas abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Anne Thomas abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Thomas abt 1840 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Samuel Thomas abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

( a couple of doors away)

1841 Cinderford
Thomas Barnard abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
George Barnard abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Eunice Barnard abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Thomas Barnard abt 1830 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Moses Barnard abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

Samuel THOMAS 1825 - 1893

samthebarber — Mon, 13 May 2013 15:28:48 +0000

Please could someone help me, I am trying to find the Burial location of Samuel Thomas b1825 MARRIED Eunice Barnard 1847 , Died 1893 in Ruspidge Glos;.
Samuel was a founder member of the English Baptist Chapel he was also an Iron Miner