Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Name Changes - Morgan, Weale

Name Changes - Morgan, Weale (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:27:54 +0000

Hi all, thanks for the added info, but I must say I'm still confused, sorry.

Amie, you say your great-grandfather is brother to Emlyn Weale, but what was his full name, please ?.

Re whether Edward could be Edwin, I guess he could have just changed his name, or indeed been misheard when quoting it, but from FreeBMD I can find this birth which perfectly fits the 1891 Census Info;

Births Sep 1871
Weale Edward Crickhowell 11b 127 (Crickhowell District includes Beaufort)

There is a Marriage for another Edward Weale in Crickhowell the previous year, which may be his father, so suggesting not likely to change name to Edwin, but Edwin and Edward were popular names in those days so...?
HOWEVER I frustratingly cannot find this Edward on the 1881 Census. Neither can I find Edwin Weale(or Wheel etc etc) born abt 1871 anywhere in the 1881 Census.
There IS a birth for an Edwin Weale in Bedwelty (hence Beaufort) in 1874, but this seems too young ?.

To compound my confusion, I cannot find ANY suggestions of a marriage between any Edward/Edwin WXXX and any Harriet XXXX within the records (I'm using FreeBMD which gives excellent coverage across this region).
Nor can I find them in any Census households before the 1891 you quote above.

-------------

Searching Samuel Barnes born Cornwall abt 1878, married abt 1899 (but NOT a "widow" ?) ref 1911 Census;

FreeBMD gives;

Births Mar 1878
Barnes Samuel John Tavistock 5b 364

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1898
BARNES Samuel John Launceston 5c 43
JENKIN Mary Jane Launceston 5c 43
JENKIN William Frayn Launceston 5c 43
Rockey Emily Launceston 5c 43

Familysearch gives;

Name Samuel John Barnes
Gender Male
Christening Date 15 Feb 1878
Christening Place Calstock, Cornwall, England
Father's Name Richard Barnes
Mother's Name Elizabeth

Calstock is near Tavistock, and has lots of mining history. Many Cornish miners migrated to the Forest and beyond in the late 1800s to find better work.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Calstock

Name Samuel John Barnes
Gender Male
Wife Emily Barnes
Child George Kimberley Barnes
Name George Kimberley Barnes
Event Type Christening
Event Date 22 Jun 1900
Event Place Calstock, Cornwall, England
Father's Name Samuel John Barnes
Mother's Name Emily Barnes

1881 Census, Mason's Row, Calstock, Tavistock District,(Cornwall), Devon, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Richard Barns Head M 32 Copper miner. Beeralston, Devon, England
Elizabeth Barns Wife F 30 Gunnislake, Cornwall, England
Levia Jane Barns Daughter F 6 Gunnislake, Cornwall, England
James John Barns Son M 3 Gunnislake, Cornwall, England
Louisa Barns Daughter F 1 Gunnislake, Cornwall, England

Is James a mis-transcription of Samuel ?

Gunnislake is Calstock area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnislake

1891 Census, Hawkmoor, Calstock, Tavistock District, Devon.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Elizabeth Barnes Head F 39 Cornwall, England
Samuel Barnes Son M 13 Work To Copper Mine. Cornwall, England
Lucy Barnes Daughter F 11 Cornwall, England
Richard Barnes Son M 5 Cornwall, England
William Barnes Son M 4 Cornwall, England

Sadly I cannot find Samuel in the 1901 Census, with or without his new wife Emily or son George. I cannot find George in the 1901 Census despite his unusual name, but did find these:

Wales Glamorganshire Parish Registers
Name George Kimberley Barnes
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 03 Apr 1921
Event Place Aberavon, Glamorganshire, Wales
Age 22
Birth Year (Estimated) 1899
Spouse's Name Emma Maria Johnson

England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name George Kimberley Barnes
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1970
Registration District Mid Glamorgan
County Glamorganshire
Event Place Mid Glamorgan, Glamorganshire, Wales
Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969) 30 Apr 1900
Volume 8B
Page 154
Line Number 66

-------------

Please do you have any records of Marriage Registrations etc between any of the other various combinations in this timeline, thanks.

-------------

Finally for now, I've just found this post which suggests Edward and Edwin were interchangable names at times. One poster says "perhaps from this we should consider Edwin a relaxed form of Edward"
??
http://www.genealogy-specialists.com/threads/are-edward-and-edwin-the-same-person.4381/

Name Changes - Morgan, Weale (reply)

amie1990 — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:09:17 +0000

Hi Jeff thanks for the reply.

These are the census returns for each household and person she lived/worked with. Also have managed to get a look at the 1939 census and she has recorded her name as Harriet A BARNES.

Although when she passed away in 1941 she was recorded as being Harriet A WEALE and also recorded as being wife to Edwin WEALE. Could Edwin be Edward (1891 census)?

GR 1911, Sunny Bank, Pentwyn, Quakers Yard

Samuel BARNES, Head, 33, Mar, Collier, bn. Cornwall ??
Harriet WEALE, Housekeeper, 42, Wid, Mon, Blackwood
William BARNES, Son, 12, Cornwall, Launceton
George Kimberley BARNES, Son, 10, Cornwall, ??
Olive BARNES, Daur, 9, Glam, Treharris
Lucy BARNES, Daur, 7, Glam, Treharris
Emlyn WEALE, Son of Housekeeper, 4, Glam, Pontypridd

Samuel :- 12 years the marriage, 6 children, 5 alive
Harriet:- 21 years the marriage 1 child alive.

GR 1901, Merthyr Tydfil

Thomas MORGAN, Head, Mar, 41, Coal Hewer, Glos, Lydbrook
Harriet A WEALE, Housekeeper, Mar, 31, General Servant, Mon. Blackwood
Evelyn, Daur, 13, Mon. Blackwood
W. George, Son, 6, Mon, Llanhilleth
S. John, Son, 3, Mon. Llanhilleth
Tom, Son, 1, Mon. Llanhilleth

( The children are bracketed with Harriet to show the relationship)

GR 1891, Llanhilleth

Edward WEALE, Head, Mar, 20, Coal Miner, Mon. Beaufort
Harriet A, Wife, 22, Mon. Blackwood
George CORNETT?, 58, Father-in-Law, Wid, 58, Carpenter, Devon, Exeter
Eveline M. WEALE, Dau, 3, Mon, Crumlin

Name Changes - Morgan, Weale (reply)

Mike Pinchin — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:49:23 +0000

This series seems to fit the facts

GR 1911, Sunny Bank, Pentwyn, Quakers Yard

Samuel :- 12 years the marriage, 6 children, 5 alive
Harriet:- 21 years the marriage 1 child alive.

GR 1901, Merthyr Tydfil

( The children are bracketed with Harriet to show the relationship)

GR 1891, Llanhilleth

Edward WEALE, Head, Mar, 20, Coal Miner, Mon. Beaufort
Harriet A, Wife, 22, Mon. Blackwood
George CORNETT?, 58, Father-in-Law, Wid, 58, Carpenter, Devon, Exeter
Eveline M. WEALE, Dau, 3, Mon, Crumlin

Name Changes - Morgan, Weale (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 19:50:58 +0000

Hi Amie,
please can you give a little more information such as a Census for the household. Without any idea of the era or the family circumstances it's impossible to say for sure, but my immediate thought is do you know who the father was ?.
Was your housekeeper living-in the household ?
I've seen plenty of cases where such a housekeeper eventually becomes partner and sometimes wife to the head(male) of the household and so bears his children, is this a possibility here ?.

----

I've read your other post and also tried to find prior threads linking Morgan & Weale. From this I think these thread are generally about the family you're researching but need more info, please, thankyou.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=35036
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=entry&id=43182

Name Changes

amie1990 — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:10:54 +0000

Was looking into family members and turns out one of my great great grandmothers was a housekeeper. During her time as a housekeeper she had my great grandfather, he was born a Weale and during his time living in the household he changed his name to Morgan, the same surname as the head of house. Also his brother Emlyn had the same happen to him, he was born a Weale and changed his name to Barnes another boss to his mother. would anyone have any idea why this was? of if it was common place?

thanks for any help anyone can give