Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Naming Patterns of Children

Naming Patterns of Children (reply)

Jezcuz2 — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:55:35 +0000

The Naming Patterns info is very interesting and I am sure will be more than helpful! Thank you soooo much!!
Jez

Naming Patterns of Children (reply)

Roughyedbach — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:56:26 +0000

Hi Jeff, I too am stumbling and learning this family history stuff as I go along and am only too aware of how many mistakes can be made only to be corrected as we go along and learn more. Can I just say that I for one find both your enthusiasm and posts to this site interesting, informative and very well written. Thanks for all the help I have picked up by reading them so far. Please do keep up the good work!

Regards

Roughyedbach

Naming Patterns of Children (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:02:55 +0000

Yes MPG you are, of course, correct.
Apologies to all for my perhaps oversimplified or even glib statement, again my own "enthusiastic amateur" label prevails !.

As I'm sure you understand I wasn't trying to rewrite the text books, I was just trying to give the benefit of my short albeit quite intensive FH experience researching many family names across the whole of the UK, trying to help some perhaps less experienced researchers. I believe it's desirable for both those researchers and the forum's future growth if, as well as answering queries with straight "names & dates" replies, such posters are also guided towards performing their own independent research so they will hopefully become more interested in FH as a longterm hobby and ideally want to return to the forum to help others. Before I reply I always try to gauge the knowledge/experience of the poster first.

In my experience (and I think that of others ?) it very much appears that in past times it was indeed relatively common, altho' NOT obligatory as my post maybe implies, for children to be named after one of their parents, maybe as a middle name. If not their parents certainly a close relative - sorry for not making this clearer. This apparent "fact" was something I wasn't aware of at all until I started my FH researches and realised it based on my own experiences, if I had known in advance it would certainly have made my researches easier.

I wrote the above post while trying to guide a poster thro' their veritable "minefield" of pre 1800 Ruardean PRs, which seemed to show such a large if not bewildering number of Thomas Yemms to try and pick from. I've learnt that in those days there were clearly a far smaller variety of forenames than we are used to nowadays, and it does seem that certain names were favoured within particular families. Yes, maybe I should have learnt this from reading a reference book or attending a FH course before attacking the PRs, but like I imagine a majority of us when starting our FH research, I didnt. Perhaps this is naming system is a reflection locally of the "Welsh" systems as you have quite correctly stated, but I think in a very general sense my post was along the correct lines altho of course not literally correct. Sorry again for any misleading confusion, this wasn't my intention.

http://www.familytreeforum.com/content.php/368-Naming-Patterns

atb Jeff.

Naming Patterns of Children (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:45:47 +0000

'remember in those days it was normal to name first son born after father .... and similarly girls after their mother'

Not sure how true that was!!!!

Naming Patterns

There are a number of websites re this information including......

http://robsfamily.com/nampatt.php

---

would be interested to know as my Husband/Son and his 3 boys/1 daughter carry various family names, but do have in a file, a very old message from Rootsweb, Gloucestershire re:

Naming Order of Children

England and Welsh - 1700 -1879

First daughter - name after the mother's mother (maternal grandmother)

Second daughter - named after the mother's father's mother

Third daughter - named after the mother

Fourth daughter - named after the mother's oldest sister

----

First son - named after the father's father

Second son - named after the mother's father

Third son - named after the father

Fourth son - named after the father's eldest brother

Exceptions apply if there was a duplication of a given name. In that case the practice was to skip to the next name on the list.

Researching pre 1837 records, continued. (reply)

jevans — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:35:24 +0000

Hi Jeff,
I too, have benefitted from your tutoring. My Jane Smith, at Hillersland somehow got hooked up with John Collins from Devonshire. How? I do not know. But your links to Devon records might help me with this mystery. Thank you for that and for all you do for all of us!

Janet

Researching pre 1837 records, continued. (reply)

Jezcuz2 — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:06:43 +0000

Jeff, the sites you listed will undoubetedly be very helpful. I did not know of any of these so again, THANK YOU for your help!

Researching pre 1837 records, continued. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:22:43 +0000

Hi Jez, thanks for your kind words, it was a pleasure to help, we're all learning - I'm just an enthusiastic amateur still fairly new to it all.
I recall just a year or so ago when I started using the PRs to research my Jones line (so clearly MANY to choose from, most not related tho), I hadnt spotted the Adv Search link. I would slowly and laboriously but (importantly !) METHODICALLY go thro ALL the Jones PRs in a given likely Parish area, hoping to stumble across someone of mine, picking up names & clues on the way. It worked but sooo slow. When someone kindly pointedout the AdSearch it was a revelation to put it mildly !. We knew my elderly grandmother had had a sister who visited us occasionally, but not eight more, and so on.. !! I hadnt realised the importance of long standing traditional family names, or the fact most C19th adults were married and starting families by their late teens, or of the often large family sizes and high infant mortality rates, etc etc.
I also now know my local library is packed full of lots of very usefull guides and manuals abt FH research, as is the internet, so lots to learn for little or no cost. I'm really pleased to hear you enjoy solving mysteries, thats good as this hobby can take over your life in a nicely addictive way, but surely more usefull than suduko etc ?.
Re your Devon researches, I expect you know them but here's a few sites that may be of use to you. Just by carefully searching the internet I've found many dozens of great sites full of reference data and sometimes Census info etc, including this FoD one of course which was a revelation for me and probably the best of all of them (and I mean right across the UK, so lucky! us). I've just "Googled" these abt Devon esp Teignmouth, there will be more of course:

Genuki is a great site for all parts of the UK, http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Teignmouth/
http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/about.htm best for local PRs etc it seems
Very usefull tips on the local gov site !
http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/councildemocracy/record_office/family_history_3.htm
http://www.devon.gov.uk/record_office/family_history_3/parish_registers/index_and_trans...
http://www.teignheritage.org.uk/
http://www.francisfrith.com/teignmouth/
http://www.oldukphotos.com/devon_teignmouth.htm
http://www.trusham.com/Census%20data/Census%20menu.htm (small village website has many census transcriptions free to access)
http://www.devonheritage.org/FrameMain_ParishRecords.htm (has Shaldon nr Teignmouth Census returns for example, worth a read it seems!)

Researching pre 1837 records, continued. (reply)

Jezcuz2 — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:00:27 +0000

Jeff, thank you ever so much for the tutoring...I really do appreciate it! I had used the advanced search option, although your methods and tips are very helpful.
Of all my ancestors on my Tree, the Yemms, FOD, seem to be the most difficult to get into although now I believe I am on the right track, first time since I started three years ago.
I will continue to research since I love a good mystery!! :-))
Your help/advise is appreciated soooooo much! THANKS again!

Researching pre 1837 records, continued. (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 02:58:10 +0000

(Cont)

These Burials may highlight just how common infant deaths were in those days, often with the PR quoting the parents' names too which helps, or they maygive the age or spouses name etc; all these clues are helpfull of course. Unfortunately this is a time consuming process but eventually you cna often build up the families lives. Don't forget (as I sometimes do) that girl's surnames are usually changed thro marriage before their Burials !

Finally, repeat for the Marriages. These are perhaps the most usefull PRs, the more recent they are the more info is recorded, particularly father's surnames (which can indicate a widowed bride's maiden name), witness's names (often close relatives), etc.
Normally as nowadays a bride marries in her home chapel, altho in those days they didnt travel too far anyway, especially not before the railways (post 1840s?), unless perhaps they were boatmen on the Severn or Wye. Re Teignmouth, dont forget thats a South Devon coastal port so your Yems may well have travelled there via coaster ship from say Lydney to Ilfracombe on the North coast, the coasts were full of ships of all sizes and cargoes in those pre railway days, even now we can still enjoy summer day trips on the old paddle steamer between Lydney, Penarth and Ilfracombe.

Again, I do hope this helps you find your ancestors, its not as complicated or timeconsuming as it sounds !
Good luck !

Researching pre 1837, Using PRs "Advanced Search", etc (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 02:53:12 +0000

Hi Jez,
hope I'm correct you want to learn more abt the Yemms before 1841 Census ?. Unfortunately the general local Government BMD & National Census Records only start after 1837, before that individual Parish (Chapel)Records have to be studied as far as I understand it all. We are so very lucky the FoD is covered by this site's huge database in this respect (maybe there's a similar site for your Teignmouth kin, try Googling for it etc). Apart from the PRs there are other lists etc which can be used but this varies enormously from place to place, such as the Bigland Transcripts recording Church graveyard tombstone inscriptions whioch were started in the mid 1700s, Ruardean is one of those Churches covered,
see http://www.forest-of-dean.net/?Memorial_Inscriptions_Bigland_Transcripts
Also see
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/?Memorial_Inscriptions
Again the tombstones would usually mention close family of the buried person, so helpfull to us wrt recreating the family unit.

Have you tried using the very nifty Advanced Search feature for this site, from the icon at base of the Parish Records Search page, its a real boon !. It takes sopme pracising to get the hang of it, but if you know a particualr surname or Parish, for example, you can soon get a feel for that family's heirarchy. Apologies if you've tried it, but if not here goes...

eg click on Advanced Search, it opens to a Baptisms search page. If you use the dropdown menu this can be changed to Marriages or Burials. You then enter what you know into the relevant boxes, I recommend entering as little as possible to get the maximum number of possible "hits". The Adv Search is great if, say, you only know one name in a Marriage, or one parent, etc. This search also caters very well for name spelling variations.
eg Using Baptisms search page, click "Search" button to get "search for records" page. Enter as little as you like in one or more entry boxes. (Like many search engines, often "less is more", you can easily scan thro lots of results and pickout those that maybe relevant; apply to many input filters and you may easily miss important relevant records).
So for fathers surname just enter "Yem", this will find and list all such names so will find all Yeme, Yem, Yemm etc. Then enter "Th" as father's forename, it will find all variations of Thomas, Thom, Thos(the old abbreviation) etc etc. As I said if you practice you'll soon get the hang of it.
Now press search, it will display a list of results after searching the hiuge database from this site. In this example it gives 92 hits, displayed in a table.
Now you need to get all, or as many as possible, displayed on one page; click "100" on the dropdown menu for "records per page". Now its wise to check they are all sorted logically, my preference is in chronological order; click on the "year" heading and the table will be sorted in year order.
You can see the majority of early (pre 1811) Records are in the Ruardean area, as you'd expect.

By carefull studying the results you should be able to discover patterns ie family groups etc. In this case it's easy to see that Thomas was a partiocularly popular/traditional name for the Yem family, in later years such clues can be useful when trying to sort out individual family groups who share a common but unrelated surname, say.
Yes, you could have also entered the mother's forename, such as Eliza to cover Eliza and Elizabeth, but what about Betty, Liza, etc ?.
Best not to enter the mother's surname as most early PRs didnt include this, thereofre this potential "hit" won't be displayed...again experiment and see for yourself, but always remember "less is more".

So, from these results and looking for mother Elizabeth, you can find the following Baptisms, you can cut & paste them like this, or if you click on the lefthand
Record ID it will display each on a separate page.

55418 1788 YEME George, Thomas & Elizabeth Ruardean
55473 1790 YEME Richard, Thomas & Elizabeth Ruardean
55551 1792 YEME Thomas, Thomas & Elizabeth Ruardean
55659 1794 YEME Ann, Thomas & Elizabeth Ruardean

(If you look down the results table you'll see another later Thomas/Elizabeth pairing, there are other mother's names either side of Elizabeth but you can easily see this is a likely couple's family as their Baptisms are all in the same locality and timescale, in this case Lydbrook, and so on...)
So, unless I'm mistaken we've found a new likely sibling for your tree, Ann.

Remember in those days it was normal to name firstborn sons after father (Thomas no doubt!) and similarly girls after their mother, always look out for such a clue.

If you now repeat your search but with the Burials, unfortunately you have to re-enter your input data but thats a very small price to pay ! This time by inputting "Ye" for surname, and "Ruardean" for Chapel, you get 166 PRs to sort & study, back to 1538 !!. Luckily for you Ruardean Church dates from the C12th, so one of the very earliest Dean Parishes alongwith it's near neighbour Newland, hence this wealth of very old PRs for your line. In later years as more parish chapels were built to cater for the growing population you may need to look at nearby Walford, Bicknor, Lydbrook etc.
See http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/the-forest-of-dean/maps-of-the-forest for the early Parish areas, a sense of the local geography is usefull when searching your likely ancestors.

(Continued below)

Thomas YEMM /YEME Ruardean (reply)

Jezcuz2 — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:30:09 +0000

Graeme, Do you have anything on siblings or parents of your George Yemm?
Thank you for your time & help!

Thomas YEMM /YEME Ruardean (reply)

Jezcuz2 — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:26:57 +0000

Yes, I have the 1841 Census though I was hoping to somehow fill in the gap between since Thomas was by then in Devon, with a family.
Any suggestions??

Thomas YEMM /YEME Ruardean (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:19:00 +0000

I have been researching Thomas 1892 Yemm, b. dean, Glouc. with possible siblings, George 1788 Yemm and Richard 1790 Yemm. Parents: Thomas and Elizabeth.
Slowhands, some time ago you and Graeme were very helpful in directing me with a parish record, which seems to be the only 'fit' I have come across.
Having said that, there is a marriage record, same parish, (ruardean) of Thomas and Betty Annets (Elizabeth?) 1787.
Is there a FOD source that would provide additional information, like a census?
Thank you again for your help!

The first useful census is 1841...

I think that we answered with that info back in 2009.....

Year: 1787
Month: Oct
Day: 3
Grooms_Surname: YEMM
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Ruardean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: ANNETS
Brides_Forenames: Betty
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Ruardean
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: his mark she signed
Witness_1: Richard LEWIS
Witness_2: Joseph HARPER
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J H BEESTON - minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Not in BT
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 41
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

possible

Year: 1760
Month: Sep
Day: 14
Parents_Surname: ANNETS
Child_Forenames: Betty
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Susan
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Rees DAVIS
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 1
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

Yemm family (reply)

Jezcuz2 — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:03:37 +0000

I have been researching Thomas 1892 Yemm, b. dean, Glouc. with possible siblings, George 1788 Yemm and Richard 1790 Yemm. Parents: Thomas and Elizabeth.
Slowhands, some time ago you and Graeme were very helpful in directing me with a parish record, which seems to be the only 'fit' I have come across.
Having said that, there is a marriage record, same parish, (ruardean) of Thomas and Betty Annets (Elizabeth?) 1787.
Is there a FOD source that would provide additional information, like a census?
Thank you again for your help!

YEMM / YEME of Dean (reply)

juzcuz — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:13:16 +0000

Thanks Slowhands and Graeme!

I will have a look at that William Yemm as well, seems like he may connect.

I know that FOD to Devon was a serious journey, and can only wonder what would prompt such a trip!

I appreciate your responses an will keep you posted on any progress made.

Kind regards

Juzcuz

Thomas YEMM /YEME 1792 Ruardean (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:24:15 +0000

I'd be looking in the Abenhall / Mitcheldean / Ruardean area for his "roots"

i.e.

Year: 1792
Month: Mar
Day: 25
Parents_Surname: YEME
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 16
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

William YEMM 1807 Mitcheldean-> Devon (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:23:01 +0000

this may be coincidence
however FoD -> Devon is today a few hours drive; 150 years ago this was an expedition, maybe this is a family member who also travelled to Devon

1851
William Yemm abt 1809 Mitchel, Gloucestershire, England Head East Stonehouse, Devon
Jane Yemm abt 1807 Plymouth, Devon, England Wife East Stonehouse, Devon
Jane Yemm abt 1838 Patter, Pembrokeshire, Wales Daughter East Stonehouse, Devon

1841
Jane Yam abt 1811 Devon, England East Stonehouse, Devon
Jane Yam abt 1837 East Stonehouse, Devon

Year: 1807
Month: Jan
Day: 25
Parents_Surname: YEMM
Child_Forenames: Will[ia]m
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Catharine
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 30
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean

Thomas YEMM 1791?-1870 -> Devon (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:05:43 +0000

look at some evidence

1841
Thomas Yemm abt 1801 West Teignmouth, Devon
Susan Yemm abt 1806 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
Fanny Yemm abt 1832 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
George Yemm abt 1839 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
John Yemm abt 1830 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
Richard Yemm abt 1826 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
Sarah Yemm abt 1834 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
Thomas Yemm abt 1828 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon
William Yemm abt 1840 Devon, England West Teignmouth, Devon

1851
Thomas Yamm abt 1795 Teignmth, Devon, England Head West Teignmouth, Devon
Susan Yamm abt 1800 Teignmth, Devon, England Wife West Teignmouth, Devon
Elizabeth Yamm abt 1845 Teignmth, Devon, England Daughter West Teignmouth, Devon
Fanny Yamm abt 1833 Teignmth, Devon, England Daughter West Teignmouth, Devon
George Yamm abt 1840 Teignmth, Devon, England Son West Teignmouth, Devon
John Yamm abt 1822 Teignmth, Devon, England Son West Teignmouth, Devon
Sarah Yamm bt 1836 Teignmth, Devon, England Daughter West Teignmouth, Devon
Thomas Yamm abt 1828 Teignmth, Devon, England Son West Teignmouth, Devon
William Yamm abt 1841 Teignmth, Devon, England Son West Teignmouth, Devon

1861
Thomas Tenner abt 1796 Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Teignmouth, Devon
Susan Tenner abt 1800 Teignmouth, Devon, England Wife West Teignmouth, Devon
Elizabeth Temm abt 1845 Teignmouth, Devon, England Daughter West Teignmouth, Devon
Sarah Temm abt 1836 Teignmouth, Devon, England Daughter West Teignmouth, Devon
Thomas Tenner abt 1828 Keen, Devon, England Son West Teignmouth, Devon

Name: Susan Yemm
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Year of Registration: 1868
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 67
District: Newton Abbot
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 87

Name: Thomas Yemm
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 79
District: Newton Abbot
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 129

Thomas 1797 Yemm (reply)

unknown — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:57:33 +0000

Hi Jazcuz,
I have a few of the "Yemm family" in my tree, George (2) and Charlotte - they are connectected to my Virgo family c late 1700's to early 1800's.
If you think there is a 'link' by all means contact me and I can pass what little info I have on to you.
Regards,
Graeme

Thomas 1797 Yemm

juzcuz — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:08:27 +0000

I am a new member and having spent the past year trying to determine the birthplaace of THOMAS 1897 YEMM who married Susan Drake from West Teignmouth, I have discovered the 1861 England Census states he was born in 'Dean, Gloucestershire.

He had a son Thomas 1826 Yemm who was born in 'Deen', yet his wife Susan and all other children were born in West Teignmouth, Devon.

Wonder if perhaps he was married FOD or had a previous wife from FOD, maybe the mother of his first child who may have died in childbirth or shortly afterwards???

Does anyone have any information on where I might begin to look for his birth/marriage record(s)? Or perhaps a missing sibling?

Any help you might be able to provide is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!!! (especially to Slowhands, for your tips!)!