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<title>Forest of Dean FHT  Forum - Lucy Jane SADLER nee BURGHAM 1916 -1983</title>
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<item>
<title>Lucy Jane SADLER nee BURGHAM 1916 -1983 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Births Jun 1916   (&gt;99%)<br />
Burgham  Lucy J  Burgham  Westbury S.  6a 485<br />
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry  <br />
BURGHAM Lucy Jane   1916 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 23 278<br />
Surname  First name(s)    District  Vol  Page <br />
Marriages Jun 1935   (&gt;99%)<br />
Burgham Lucy J   Westbury S.  6a 763 <br />
Sadler  Frank   Westbury S  6a 763</p>
<p>1939 Main Rd Old Woodstock OXON<br />
Frank E Sadler 10 Dec 1914 Male Credit Salesman Boots &amp; Shoes Clothing Motor Cycle Married 156 1<br />
Lucy J Sadler 08 Apr 1916 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 156 2<br />
The record for this person is officially closed.</p>
<p>The record for this person is officially closed.</p>
<p>Deaths Dec 1983   (&gt;99%)<br />
SADLER  LUCY JANE  8AP1916  LICHFIELD  30 809</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=53935</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>slowhands</dc:creator>
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<item>
<title>Ellen HYDE nee JOHNS c1865-  Dau of William (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1881 Hinders Lane<br />
Ellen Johns Visitor Single Female 15 1866 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England</p>
<p>Marriages Jun 1887   (&gt;99%)<br />
Hyde  James    Westbury S.  6a 440   <br />
Johns  Ellen    Westbury S.  6a 440</p>
<p><br />
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building   Year Register Entry  <br />
HYDE James JOHNS Ellen Forest of Dean Drybrook Holy Trinity  1887 3 110</p>
<p><br />
Year: 1887<br />
Month: May<br />
Day: 31<br />
Grooms_Surname: HYDE<br />
Grooms_Forenames: James<br />
Grooms_Age: 20<br />
Groom_Condition: Bachelor<br />
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer<br />
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford<br />
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Hyde<br />
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Mary<br />
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]<br />
Brides_Surname: JOHNS<br />
Brides_Forenames: Ellen<br />
Brides_Age: 23<br />
Brides_Condition: Spinster<br />
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]<br />
Brides_Residence: Steam Mills<br />
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Johns<br />
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William<br />
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer deceased<br />
Licence_or_Banns: Banns<br />
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]<br />
Signature_or_Mark: both mark<br />
Witness_1: Mark of Alfred Green<br />
Witness_2: Mark of Emma Green<br />
Other_Witnesses: <br />
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar<br />
Event: Marriage<br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/8<br />
Page_Number: 55<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=53934</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=53934</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2023 09:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>slowhands</dc:creator>
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<item>
<title>Drusilla BURGHAM nee JOHNS 1854-1932 (dau of William JOHNS) (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deaths Mar 1932   (&gt;99%)<br />
Burgham  Drusilla  80  Westbury S  6a 410  IE dOb 1852</p>
<p>1921  Lucy,1858 Lucy Jane 1916 and Samuel 1857 Burgham living in East Dean</p>
<p>1911 Puddlebrook / Wigpool / Drybrook area<br />
Samuel Burgum Head Married Male 50 1861 Colling work coal hewer Littledean Glos<br />
Lucy Burgum Wife Married Female 39 1872 Assisting husband Mitcheldean Glos<br />
George Burgum Son Single Male 24 1887 Help father Hereford Herefordshire<br />
Mary Ann Burgum Daughter Single Female 16 1895 Helps mother Hereford Herefordshire<br />
Harriet Burgum Daughter Single Female 14 1897 Helps mother Hereford</p>
<p>1901 Churchway nr Nofold Green / Nelson Green<br />
Samuel Burgham Head Married Male 39 1862 Coal hewer Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Drusilla Burgham Wife Married Female 36 1865 - May Hill, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Samuel Burgham Son Single Male 19 1882 Coal hewer Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Mary Jane Burgham Daughter Single Female 18 1883 General servant Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
George Burgham Son Single Male 16 1885 Colliery belt boy Ruspidge, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Ellen Burgham Daughter Single Female 14 1887 - Ruspidge, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Drusilla Burgham Daughter Single Female 11 1890 - Abersychan, Monmouthshire, Wales<br />
Eliza Burgham Daughter Single Female 9 1892 - Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Mary Ann Burgham Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Harriet Burgham Daughter Single Female 4 1897 - Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England</p>
<p>1891 Woodside Rd Cinderford<br />
Samuel Burgum  Head Married Male 29 1862 Coal miner Littledean, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Lucy Burgum Wife Married Female 27 1864 - May Hill, Herefordshire, England<br />
Elizabeth Burgum Daughter Single Female 10 1881 Scholar Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Samuel Burgum Son Single Male 9 1882 Scholar Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Mary J Burgum Daughter Single Female 8 1883 Scholar Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
George Burgum Son Single Male 6 1885 Scholar Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Ellen Burgum Daughter Single Female 4 1887 Scholar Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Lucy Burgum Daughter Single Female 2 1889 - Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England</p>
<p>Surname  First name(s)    District  Vol  Page <br />
                             Marriages Dec 1890   (&gt;99%)<br />
Burgham  Samuel    Westbury S.  6a 478 <br />
Johns  Druscilla    Westbury S.  6a 478 <br />
Johns  Drusilla    Westbury S.  6a 478</p>
<p><br />
1881 Hinders Lane<br />
Joseph Burgam Head Married Male 43 1838 Labourer Gloucestershire, England<br />
Lorne Burgam Wife Married Female 45 1836 - Littledean, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Samuel Burgam Son Married Male 22 1859 Coal miner Littledean, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Drusilla Burgam Daughter in law Married Female 22 1859 - May Hill, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Elizabeth A Burgam Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England<br />
Ellen Johns Visitor Single Female 15 1866 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England</p>
<p>Year: 1866<br />
Month: Apr<br />
Day: 13<br />
Surname: JOHNS<br />
Forenames: Martha<br />
Residence: A traveller?<br />
Age_at_death: 87<br />
Officiating_Minister: Ralph Barker Vicar of Pagamane[\/] Chesterton[?]<br />
Event: Burial<br />
Cause_of_death: [Not Sta<br />
Memoranda: Letter P in left hand margin<br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/12<br />
Page_No: 5<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook</p>
<p><br />
1861 In a Tent (Basket Maker JOHNS family) Drybrook Area ( Holy Trinity)<br />
William John Head Married Male 33 1828 Butch maker Boldon, Yorkshire, England (Bredon Glos)<br />
Ann John Wife Married Female 30 1831 Butch maker Bedfordshire, England (Brackley ?)<br />
William John Son - Male 12 1849 - Staffordshire, England (Wolverhampton)<br />
David John Son - Male 9 1852 - -Glos Gorsley<br />
Caroline John Daughter - Female 7 1854 - Glos Gorsley<br />
Drusilla John Daughter - Female 7 1854 - Glos Gorsley<br />
Lupton (LEPTON?) John Son - Male 0 1861 - - East Dean<br />
Martha John Mother - Female 81 1780</p>
<p><br />
Year: 1857<br />
Month: Jul<br />
Day: 27<br />
Parents_Surname: JOHN<br />
Child_Forenames: Drusilla<br />
Fathers_Forenames: William<br />
Mothers_Forenames: Ann<br />
Mothers_Surname:<br />
Residence: Herefordshire<br />
Occupation: (Gipsy) Basket maker<br />
Officiating_Minister: Arthur J. Street<br />
Event: Baptism<br />
Memoranda:<br />
Notes:<br />
Register_Reference: P188 IN 1/6<br />
Page_Number: 51<br />
Parish_Chapel: Kempley</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=53933</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=53933</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2023 20:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>slowhands</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Thank you for the info. I think it might be a different Drusilla as he date of birth I have is 1864 - I think she was born at May Hill &amp; married Samuel Burgham in 1890</p>
</blockquote><p>Drusilla John's is my great great grandmother.<br />
She married Samuel Burgham. They lived on wigpool, Drybrook. My grand mother Lucy Burgham and lived with them until the death of Drusilla in 1932. Lucy thought that her grandmother was her mother and her mother was her sister.<br />
Lucy was born without knowing her father. Born out of wedlock.<br />
When Drisilla died my grandmother was told the truth.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=53931</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2023 19:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>probsy4</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusulla JOHN(S) (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are all names that appear in my research. <br />
I'm still unsure of how Drusilla relates to the other members, however Mark Johns (aged 19 and living in the tents with another gypsy family) was my G-G Grandfather, he married Carnation BUTLER who was also from a large gypsy family.<br />
On the 1891 census they were living with Marks brother William and his family who was the 'king of the gypsies of the Forest of Dean'. </p>
<p><br />
Drusilla Johns hasn't appeared in my research as yet, I'm pretty sure they are all related considering gypsy families tended to be huge, but I haven't found the 'missing links' yet.<br />
Its all very intriguing!</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45159</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>neyblake84</dc:creator>
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<item>
<title>Drusulla JOHN(S) (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not entirely sure how the following relates to Drusilla JOHN(S) but there must be some kind of connexion. Anybody care to explain?</p>
<p>GR 1881 Census Collafield, Green Bottom, Shapridge</p>
<p>3 Gypsy Tents</p>
<p>Pridy (?) SMITH, Head, Widow, 60, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Faith, Son, Mar, 45, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Lea, Daur, Mar, 25, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Keziah, Daur, Mar, 26, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
<strong>Nepthane JOHNS, Nephew, Mar, 22, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown</strong><br />
?????? SMITH,  Dau in Law, Un, 21, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Mark JOHNS, Nephew, Un, 19, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Shady JOHNS, Dau in Law, Un, 10 months, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Mathew BUTLER, Son in Law, Mar, 30, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Emma BUTLER, Daur, Un, 11, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
????? BUTLER, Daur, Un, 5, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Mathew BUTLER, Son, Un, 18 months, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Bessie BUTLER, Daur, Un, 7, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Albert BUTLER, Son, Un, 6, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown<br />
Lucie SMITH, Daur, Un, 23, Travelling Gypsy, b. Unknown</p>
<p>GR 1891 Census, East Dean, Holy Trinity, Dean Common</p>
<p>William JOHNS, Head, Mar 39, General Laborer, <strong>b. Staffordshire, Dudley</strong><br />
Eliza, Wife, 38, b. Herefordshire, Ledbury<br />
William, Son, 10, b. Gloucestershire, E. Dean<br />
David, Son, 8, b. Gloucestershire, E. Dean<br />
Elizabeth, Adopted Dau, 18, b. Gloucestershire, E. Dean<br />
Comfort, Dau, 5, b. Glo, b.Gloucestershire, E. Dean<br />
Sarah, Dau, 2, b. Gloucestershire, E. Dean<br />
Henry, Son, 3 months, b. Gloucestershire, E. Dean<br />
Mark, Brother, Mar, 29, General Laborer, b. Breconshire, Brecon<br />
Carnation, Brother’s Wife, Mar, 26, Not known<br />
Sarah, Niece, 5, b. Kent, Bromley<br />
Fred, Nephew, 3, b. Kent, Bromley<br />
John JAMES, Lodger, S, 16, b. Warwickshire, Birmingham</p>
<p><br />
GR 1901 Census, St Mary the Virgin, Rural District of Lydney</p>
<p>Tents, Bearse Common, Extra Parochial</p>
<p>Mark JOHNS, Head, Mar, 57,Tinker and Hawker, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Carnation, Wife, Mar, 36, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Fredrerick, Son, S,  13, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Mark, Son, S, 8, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Ernest, Son, S, 4, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Llewelyn, Son, S, 1, b. Glos. St Briavels<br />
Sarah J, Daur, S, 15, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Bertha, Daur, S, 10, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Amelia, Daur, S, 4, b. Glos. Forest of Dean<br />
Isiah BUTLER, B-in law, S, 46, Tinker and Hawker</p>
<p><br />
GR 1911 Census</p>
<p>2 Families, Tents, Hornill? Hill, Bream, Gloucestershire</p>
<p>Mark JOHNS, Head, 54, Mar, A Laborer at Travelling Hawker, b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Carnation, Wife, 48, Mar, any work, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Sarah J, 26, S, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Birtha, 20, S, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Mark, Son, 17 S, Labourer above ground colliery, b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Amelia, 11, S, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Earnest, Son, 14, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Llewewyn, Son, 11, School, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire<br />
Stanley, Son, 9, School, , b.Cinderford in Gloucestershire</p>
<p>29 years the marriage, 10 children, 7 alive, 3 died.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45158</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45158</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2014 19:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Mike Pinchin</dc:creator>
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<title>Samuel BURGHAM and son Samuel, Cinderford/Drybrook area. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a few more bits:-</p>
<p>GR 1871 Census Littledean</p>
<p>Joseph BURGHAM, Head M, 40, Ostler in a coal mine, b. East Dean Woodside<br />
Salomie, Wife, 38, b. Littledean Woodside<br />
Samuel, Son,  14, Horse Driver (?), b. Littledean Woodside<br />
George MORGAN, Father of above, Widower, 74, Nailer, b. Littledean Woodside</p>
<p>In the 1891 census I had failed to notice that next door to Samuel BURGAM et al is:-</p>
<p>Salome BURGHAM, Head, Widow, 60, Parish Relief, b. Littledean, Glos.</p>
<p>Living in 1 room.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45072</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Mike Pinchin</dc:creator>
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<title>Samuel BURGHAM and son Samuel, Cinderford/Drybrook area. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Mike !</p>
<p>fwiw I did try searching Samuel last night but my mind was numb, out of practice I guess, thanks. So now she's born 1864 again, conveniently still under age 30 !</p>
<p>Here they are in 1911 Census, still near Drybrook, at Puddlebrook in four room household;<br />
Name Relation to Head Birth Date Age Gender Marital Status Years Married Occupation Birth Place<br />
Samuel Burgum Head 1861 50 Male Married 30 Colliery Work Coal Hewer Little Dean, Gloucestershire <br />
Lucy Burgum Wife 1872 39 Female Married  Assisting Husband Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire <br />
George Burgum Son 1887 24 Male Single  Helps Father Hereford, Herefordshire <br />
Mary Ann Burgum Daughter 1895 16 Female Single  Helps Mother Hereford, Herefordshire <br />
Harriet Burgum Daughter 1897 14 Female Single  Helps Mother Hereford, Gloucestershire </p>
<p>So Drusilla/Lucy is still struggling to get past the 30/40/50 age &quot;barriers&quot; ;-)<br />
now born about 1872 !!??</p>
<p><br />
Please note I've just amended my earlier post to add/clarify Samuel Jr and Selina's burials, in case you're looking.</p>
<p>Meanwhile here is Drusilla's death record; </p>
<p>Funny how ladies seem to want to be OLDer than they really are as they enter their twilight years, seen this a few times !</p>
<p>Name: Drusilla Burgham<br />
Birth Date: abt 1852<br />
Date of Registration: Mar 1932<br />
Age at Death: 80<br />
Registration district: Westbury on Severn<br />
Inferred County: Gloucestershire<br />
Volume: 6a<br />
Page: 410</p>
<p>And her burial PR at last (I foolishly kept forgetting she'd become a Burgham, after all the John/Johns?etc searches.)</p>
<p>Record_ID: 250003<br />
Entry_Number: 1512<br />
Year: 1932<br />
Month: Jan<br />
Day: 28<br />
Surname: BURGHAM<br />
Forenames: Drusilla<br />
Residence: Wigpool<br />
Age_at_death: 80 years<br />
Officiating_Minister: George R Newman Vicar<br />
Event: Burial<br />
Cause_of_death: <br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/14<br />
Page_No: 189<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p><br />
Finally I think, for completeness having accidentally found it, here is Samuel &quot;Senior&quot; with his parents on the 1871 Census at Hinders lane, so the same Cinderford St Stephen address as the 1881 Census posted earlier.</p>
<p>Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country<br />
James Burgum Head 50 1821 Male Hinders Lane  <br />
Sarah Ann Burgum Wife 40 1831 Female Ruardean Gloucestershire England<br />
James Burgum Son 14 1857 Male East Dean Gloucestershire England<br />
Samuel Burgum Son 11 1860 Male East Dean Gloucestershire England<br />
William Burgum Son 5 1866 Male East Dean  <br />
Charles Burgum Son 2 1869 Male Hinders Lane</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45064</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2014 17:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<item>
<title>Samuel BURGHAM and son Samuel, Cinderford/Drybrook area. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GR 1891 Census, East Dean, Cinderford, Woodside Road</p>
<p>Samuel BURGUM, Head, M, 29, Coal Miner, b. Littledean, Glos<br />
Lucy, Wife, M, 27, b. May Hill, Herefordshire<br />
Elizabeth, Dau, S, 10, b. Cinderford, Glos.<br />
Samuel, Son, S, 9, b. Cinderford, Glos.<br />
Mary J, Dau, S, 8, b. Cinderford, Glos.<br />
George, Son, S, 6, b. Cinderford, Glos.<br />
Ellen, Dau, S, 4, b. Cinderford, Glos.<br />
Lucy, Dau, S, 2, b. Abersychan, Mon.</p>
<p>An enumerator who hears Drusilla as Lucy?</p>
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<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Mike Pinchin</dc:creator>
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<item>
<title>Samuel BURGHAM and son Samuel, Cinderford/Drybrook area. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mike, well found.</p>
<p>Clearly looks the same family to me, despite Drusilla's claimed age. </p>
<p>Searching this site's PRs, think this is Drusilla's husband Samuel, a good fit despite Samuel being a popular Burgham name at the time including a couple in the general Newent/Astons area;</p>
<p>Record_ID: 33185<br />
Entry_Number: 757<br />
Year: 1858<br />
Month: Feb<br />
Day: 19<br />
Parents_Surname: BURGUM<br />
Child_Forenames: Samuel<br />
Fathers_Forenames: Joseph<br />
Mothers_Forenames: Salome<br />
Mothers_Surname: <br />
Residence: LIttle Dean<br />
Occupation: Haulier<br />
Officiating_Minister: John J Hedges<br />
Event: Baptism<br />
Memoranda: Margin note Privately.Rec[eive]d into Cong[regatio]n on July 18<br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P110 IN 1/6<br />
Page_Number: 95<br />
Parish_Chapel: Littledean<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p>and again;</p>
<p>Record_ID: 6769<br />
Entry_Number: 1334<br />
Year: 1910<br />
Month: Feb<br />
Day: 16<br />
Surname: BURGAM<br />
Forenames: Samuel<br />
Residence: Workhouse Westbury<br />
Age_at_death: 55 years<br />
Officiating_Minister: F. W. Cresswell Curate<br />
Event: Burial<br />
Cause_of_death: <br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/14<br />
Page_No: 168<br />
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p>So born abt 1855, seems good fit despite change of Church.</p>
<p>Looking like young Samuel &quot;Junior&quot; setup home in Drybrook, so towards Gorsley etc.<br />
Looking like aforementioned Reg Office 1908 Marriage to Selina is his and not his father;</p>
<p>Record_ID: 108666<br />
Entry_Number: 1138<br />
Year: 1914<br />
Month: Apr<br />
Day: 8<br />
Parents_Surname: BURGHAM<br />
Child_Forenames: Samuel<br />
Fathers_Forenames: Samuel<br />
Mothers_Forenames: Selina<br />
Mothers_Surname: <br />
Residence: Nelson Green<br />
Occupation: Collier<br />
Officiating_Minister: J Lawton Vicar<br />
Event: Baptism<br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/5<br />
Page_Number: 143<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p>Record_ID: 249418<br />
Entry_Number: 926<br />
Year: 1922<br />
Month: Nov<br />
Day: 8<br />
Surname: BURGHAM<br />
Forenames: Samuel<br />
Residence: Wigpool<br />
Age_at_death: 65 years<br />
Officiating_Minister: H M Biddell<br />
Event: Burial<br />
Cause_of_death: <br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/14<br />
Page_No: 116<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p>So this Samuel also born abt 1857, eek, makes it tricky !?</p>
<p>Record_ID: 1008038<br />
Entry_Number: 75<br />
Year: 1934<br />
Month: Jul<br />
Day: 22<br />
Surname: BURGHAM<br />
Forenames: Samuel<br />
Residence: Ruardean Hill<br />
Age_at_death: 53<br />
Officiating_Minister: George R Newman Vicar<br />
Event: Burial<br />
Cause_of_death: <br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/38<br />
Page_No: 10<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p>So born abt 1880, think this is Samuel Jr, Selina's husband.</p>
<p>There are much later Samuel Burghams/Burgums etc in the Drybrook/Ruardean Hill area too. Best left for another day methinks, hopefully already in the prior threads ?.<br />
Yes, hints here for births to Samuel &amp; Selina, <a href="http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=7111">www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=7111</a></p>
<p>Re Selina John/Johns, I've searched but am struggling to find a definite birth record.<br />
What I do notice tho on FreeBMD is there are quite a few of this name, from the Worcs/Warks midland thro to Cornwall, so perhaps sugesting a gipsy tradition ?. ALL the John (rather than Johns) are recorded in West &amp; South Wales....</p>
<p>Here's her Burial, again on Ruardean Hill so presumably still with Samuel Jr ?</p>
<p>Record_ID: 1009338<br />
Entry_Number: 1373<br />
Year: 1958<br />
Month: Feb<br />
Day: 14<br />
Surname: BURGHAM<br />
Forenames: Selina<br />
Residence: Rose Tree Cottage Ruardean Hill<br />
Age_at_death: 75<br />
Officiating_Minister: Eric J Hoskin Rector of Ruardean<br />
Event: Burial<br />
Cause_of_death: <br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/38<br />
Page_No: 172<br />
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook<br />
Soundex: B625</p>
<p>(So born abt 1883 which seems probable)</p>
<p>--------------------</p>
<p>I'm afraid I still cannot find Drusilla Burgham after 1901, or Selina John's birth.<br />
Any takers please ?.</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45058</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHN born 1857, Gorsley/May Hill area. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GR has this in the 1901 Census, East Dean, Holy Trinity, Churchway</p>
<p>Samuel BURGHAM, Head, M, 39, Coal Hewer, b. Glos. Cinderford<br />
Drusilla, Wife, M, 36, b. Glos.May Hill<br />
Samuel, Son, S, 19, Coal Hewer, b. Glos. Cinderford<br />
Mary Jane, Dau, S, 18, General Servant, b. Glos. Cinderford<br />
George, Son, S, 16, Colliery Belt boy, b. Glos. Ruspidge<br />
Ellen, Dau, S, 14, b. Glos. Ruspidge<br />
Drusilla, Dau, S, 11, b. South Wales, Abersychan<br />
Eliza, Dau, S, 9, b. Glos. Cinderford<br />
Mary Ann, Dau, S, 6, b. Glos. Cinderford<br />
Harriet, Dau, S, 4, b. Glos. Drybrook</p>
<p>If this is the 1861 Drusilla she’s being economical with her age again</p>
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<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2014 11:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Mike Pinchin</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHN born 1857, Gorsley/May Hill area. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen,<br />
apart from the 1890 marriage record, do you have any other reason to think your Drusilla was born in 1864 ?</p>
<p>I ask as after searching various databases I also believe your Drusilla is the same girl born near Gorsley in 1857 as per Mike's 1861 Census post. It’s not a common name, and Mike’s find seems the most likely to me. Ancestry also carries this Baptism which confirms the Census dates.</p>
<p>Name: Drusilla John<br />
Gender: Female<br />
Baptism Date: 27 Jul 1857<br />
Baptism Place: Kempley,Gloucester,England<br />
Father: William John<br />
Mother: Ann<br />
FHL Film Number: 425446, 91539</p>
<p><br />
Searching surname &quot;John&quot;, and not &quot;Johns&quot;(even with Soundex ticked), finds the PR in this FoD site;</p>
<p>Record_ID: 160871<br />
Entry_Number: 405<br />
Year: 1857<br />
Month: Jul<br />
Day: 27<br />
Parents_Surname: JOHN<br />
Child_Forenames: Drusilla<br />
Fathers_Forenames: William<br />
Mothers_Forenames: Ann<br />
Mothers_Surname: <br />
Residence: Herefordshire<br />
Occupation: (Gipsy) Basket maker<br />
Officiating_Minister: Arthur J. Street<br />
Event: Baptism<br />
Memoranda: <br />
Notes: <br />
Register_Reference: P188 IN 1/6<br />
Page_Number: 51<br />
Parish_Chapel: Kempley<br />
Soundex: J500</p>
<p>This confirms William’s “basketmaker” occupation, very typical for gypsies in the Herefordshire/Glostershire borders. This area's fertile agricultural land and mild climate meant it was renowned for extensive fruit orchards, offering plentiful seasonal work for gypsies especially at harvest time, not to mention demand for skilled basketmakers and repairers. Before that, spring brought huge displays of wild daffodils in the Kempley area, as discussed here in the past. It’s known that local gypsies would gather cut daffs in swathes to sell at nearby towns, such as Newent, Ledbury and even Gloster, carried by the basketful of course.<br />
See <a href="http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/Kempley/Gaz1868.html">http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/Kempley/Gaz1868.html</a></p>
<p>The 1861 Census indicates Drusilla was born at Gorsley.<br />
As the village website states Gorsley is right at the foot of May Hill. <br />
<a href="http://www.gorsley.com/">http://www.gorsley.com/</a></p>
<p>This photo of May Hill was taken from near Gorsley.<br />
<a href="https://geolocation.ws/v/W/File:Crooke's%20Farm%20and%20May%20Hill%20-%20geograph.org.uk%20-%2058015.jpg/-/en">https://geolocation.ws/v/W/File:Crooke's%20Farm%20and%20May%20Hill%20-%20geograph.org.u...</a></p>
<p>As I'm sure you know, May Hill is a very prominent landmark that can be seen from many miles around, particularly north towards Gloster and beyond along the traditional gypsy travelling routes past the Malverns into Worcestershire. This is why it's been used as a &quot;beacon&quot; hill in the distant past, I suspect the gypsies of old may even have considered it a ”magical” place much like Glastonbury Tor in Somerset. I’m sure it would be prominent in their legends and storytelling, and maybe a birthplace to be proud of ! <br />
May Hill is mentioned in this description of Aston Ingham, Gorsley's close neighbour. This village still has a byway called &quot;Gypsy Lane&quot;, presumably for good historical reasons. <br />
<a href="http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/AstonIngham/Gaz1868.html">http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/AstonIngham/Gaz1868.html</a></p>
<p>This prior thread also discusses May Hill, hopefully you may find it of interest.<br />
<a href="http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41424">http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41424</a></p>
<p><br />
Regarding your belief Drusilla was born in 1864, the only Record I can find to support this is her 1890 Marriage Record. As MPG has discovered, the unusual choice of witnesses strongly suggest this is a gypsy wedding.  In olden times it was very common, particularly for ladies, to “adjust” their actual ages when asked during a marriage or Census. It was sometimes thought improper for a bride to be older than the groom, and as nowadays no-one likes to pass the “magic” ages of 30 or 40. Hence I’m not at all surprised a bride who’s real age is 33 would state she was 26 when her groom was 28. And why not, no-one was going to check or query it, especially here when the Minister and Witnesses are clearly doing their best to help the couple. The fact the Record quotes Johns rather than John is no surprise, Johns being a far more commonplace surname than John, as I proved when mistakenly searching for Drusilla Johns within the Baptism PRs  earlier !</p>
<p>The 1881 Census for Samuel Burgham &amp; Drusilla shows the couple in Cinderford. They are shown as married !?, living with Samuel’s parents just yards above St Stephens Church. As well as confirming his father &amp; her May Hill birthplace (your source ?), it also gives a more likely age for Drusilla, and mentions a visitor, possibly her sister ? They don’t appear to have any children, perhaps their first child was the reason for their formal 1890 Marriage ?  (Or is Elizabeth their baby ?)</p>
<p>1881 CENSUS.   Hinders Lane, Dockham, St Stephens Parish.<br />
Given Name Surname Relationship to Head Marital Status Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Birth City Birth County Birth Country.</p>
<p>Joseph Burgam Head Married 43 1838 Male Labourer Ruspidge (East Dean) Gloucestershire England<br />
Lorne Burgam Wife Married 45 1836 Female  Littledean Gloucestershire England<br />
Samuel  Burgam Son Married 22 1859 Male Coal Miner Littledean Gloucestershire England<br />
Drusilla Burgam Daughter in Law Married 22 1859 Female  May Hill Gloucestershire England<br />
Elizth. A. Burgam Daughter 6m 1881  Female  Cinderford Gloucestershire England<br />
Ellen Johns Visitor  15 1866 Female  East Dean Gloucestershire England</p>
<p><br />
These reasons are why I believe the 1857 Kempley baptism is indeed your Drusilla.</p>
<p>============================================================</p>
<p>I cannot find any more clear Census records for Drusilla, not helped as there’s another Drusilla Johns in Cornwall, born near Penzance in 1862.  Similarly I cannot find Samuel in later Census’, although Ancestry carries these Records;</p>
<p>West Yorkshire, England, Prison Records, 1801-1914 about Samuel Burgham<br />
Name: Samuel Burgham<br />
[Samuel Burgin] <br />
Birth Year: abt 1862<br />
Birth Place: Cinderford<br />
Age: 24<br />
Event Date: 23 Jun 1886<br />
Prison or Quarter Session: HMP Wakefield<br />
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, England<br />
Sentence: Imprisonment or Servitude<br />
 <br />
England &amp; Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Samuel Burgham<br />
Name: Samuel Burgham<br />
Birth Date: abt 1857<br />
Date of Registration: Dec 1922<br />
Age at Death: 65<br />
Registration district: Westbury on Severn<br />
Inferred County: Gloucestershire<br />
Volume: 6a<br />
Page: 306</p>
<p>Finally, GlosBMD gives this interesting Record that may reward investigation;</p>
<p>Marriage Details</p>
<p>Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building   Year Register Entry<br />
BURGHAM Samuel JOHNS Selina Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office Closed 1908 14 79</p>
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<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2014 03:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Jefff</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's great, thank you very much. Any info would be very welcome<br />
Karen</p>
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<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2014 12:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Kazza471</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I am a descendant of Mark Johns, Brother of William Johns, King of the Gypsies.<br />
Through my research I have found 9 of Williams children, however I found some newspaper articles about his death stating he had 22 children! So it is a possibility that Drusilla could have been related in some way. There were many Gypsy families in the forest at that time, it is a challenge trying to link people together.<br />
I will have a look into it, </p>
<p>Laura Johns</p>
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<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2014 12:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>neyblake84</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864 - Previous thread (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samuel BURGHAM's wedding info on Fod Records, state Drusilla's father was William JOHNS and engine driver.  The two witnesses: Rowland PRITCHETT, was a Lay Preacher and Laura Gertrude Houlson, was the wife of the Clerk Holy Orders, Vicar of Woodside.</p>
<p>? is this Drusilla whose father William was a Gypsy, but didn't want anyone to know</p>
<p>There is a lot of information in previous threads on William JOHNS King of the Gypsies etc</p>
<p>Try the search engine Gypsy Ancestors</p>
<p>and two links</p>
<p>William JOHNS (c1841-1937) 'King of the Gipsies'</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>Gypsy Family - Clark</p>
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<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>MPGriffiths</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the info. I think it might be a different Drusilla as he date of birth I have is 1864 - I think she was born at May Hill &amp; married Samuel Burgham in 1890</p>
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<link>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=44959</link>
<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=44959</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Kazza471</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864 (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From GR 1861 Census<br />
East Dean, Holy Trinity</p>
<p>Persons not in houses</p>
<p>Wm JOHN, Head, Mar, 33, Basket maker, b. Glos, Bredon<br />
Ann, wife, 30, Basket maker, b. Bedfordshire, ???<br />
Wm, son, 12, b. Staff, Wolverhampton<br />
David, son, 9, b. Hereford, Gorsley<br />
Caroline (Carnatine?), dau, 7 , b. Hereford, Gorsley<br />
<strong>Drusilla, dau, 4, b. Hereford, Gorsley</strong><br />
Niphon (?), son, 14m(?), b. Glos. East Dean<br />
Martha, mother, 81</p>
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<guid>https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=44958</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Mike Pinchin</dc:creator>
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<title>Drusilla JOHNS c1864</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am directly related to the Johns family from the Forest of Dean and trying to find out if Drusilla Johns was one of the children of William Johns Gypsy King, she also had  sister called Ellen b1866 I think. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks</p>
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<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2014 22:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
<category>General</category><dc:creator>Kazza471</dc:creator>
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