Gallery Ruardean 2

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/ruardean-2

johannah Davis

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The Police Constable Cornelius Harding born 1871 was the son of Phineas Harding born 1832, brother to my Cornelius also known as Thomas Cornelius. You gave me the Marriage of a Cornelius Harding in 1864, I believe this Cornelius Harding was born in 1838 son of James and Lydia nee Smart, Harding. Not sure who James' parents were.

The Charlotte Ann Harding you mention was registered as ANNIE, daughter of Cornelius and Johannah nee DAVIS, Harding. She was my grandmother and I have her Birth Cert.

Thanks for your help.

In the 1841 Census this is Phenius, not Thomas.

1911 Census, Police Station, Hucclecote, Nr Gloucester
Name Relation to Head Birth Date Age Gender Marital Status Years Married Occupation Birth Place
Cornelius Harding Head 1872 39 Male Married 13yrs Police Constable Olveston, Gloucestershire
Jean Annie Harding Wife 1871 40 Female Married 13yrs Ferrintock, Ross-shire
Phineas John Harding Son 1900 11 Male school Churchdown, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Constance Harding Daughter 1905 6 Female school Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Could his place of birth be Alveston, so near Newnham as per his Marriage Record ?, see later.
Wife since abt 1898 is Jean Annie nee Fraser, from Scotland via Gloster, all as per the earlier Marriage Record.

1901 Census, Gloucester Rd, Churchdown, Tewkesbury, Glos
Name Relation to Head Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth Place
Cornelius Harding Head(Police Constable) 29 1872 Male Olveston, Gloucestershire, England
Jean A Harding Wife 32 1869 Female Scotland
Phineas J Harding Son 1 1900 Male Churchdown, Gloucestershire, England

1891 Census, Crescent Place Police Station, Cheltenham, Glos (next door to No 1 Crescent Place, Temperance Hotel)
Given Name Surname Relationship Gender Age Estimated Birth Year Birth City or District Birth County Birth Country
Cornelius Harding (Police Constable,Servant) Male 19 1872 Olveston Gloucester

(plus another few dozen Police Constables & senior staff, Cheltenham's main Police Station ?), and this possible link to his future wife ?

Donald McRae Head(Superintendant of Police) Male 49 1842 Scotland
Mima McRae Wife Female 50 1841 Scotland
Annie McRae Daughter Female 23 1868 Cheltenham Gloucestershire England ??

Note: In 1871 the McRae family are at Cheltenham, Donald a Police Constable, but by 1881 they are all at Coleford Police Station, No 1 Coalway Rd. Could Annie(same age & name? as his future wife), or at least her father Donald, have known Cornelius then ?.
Also at the Coleford Station in 1881 are Sergeant Henry Newman (bPauntley) & family, and PC William Hall (bNorthleach). Perhaps a coincidence but a very close neighbour is a William Morris, ironmonger's assistant, b1851 Coleford - would he become PC Morris, murdered colleague of PC Harding, too old perhaps ?...

1881 Census, Cross Hands, Thornbury, Glos
Given Name Surname Relationship to Head Marital Status Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Birth City Birth County
Phinehas Harding Head Married 48 1833 Male Police Constable East Dean Gloucestershire
Elizebth. Harding Wife Married 38 1843 Female Northleach Gloucestershire England
Cornelius Harding Son 9 1872 Male Scholar Olveston
Jesse Harding Son 7 1874 Male Scholar Olveston
George Harding Son 6 1875 Male Scholar Olveston
Harry Harding Son Male Infant Almondsbury

1871 Census, Police Station, Olveston #,West Glos
Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country
Phinepas Harding Head 37 1834 Male(Police Constable) Ruardean Woodside Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Harding Wife 27 1844 Female Northleach
John Smiddy 22 1849 Male(Police Constable) Youghal Ireland
James Steffe 30 1841 Male(Police Constable) Ballyanbritez Ireland

# This is definitely Olveston/Alveston between Thornbury and Aust, just across the Severn Bridge from FoD.

SO, PC Cornelius Harding is son of Phineas Harding of Ruardean Woodside, his Baptism takes us full circle back to Cornelius & Elzabeth as my prior post, so definitely same family; think that makes Phineas the older brother to Cornelius b1834 & Elizabeth;

Record_ID: 57068
Entry_Number: 590
Year: 1832
Month: Oct
Day: 14
Parents_Surname: HARDING
Child_Forenames: Phineas
Fathers_Forenames: Cornelius
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Forest of Dean
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbroke Min[iste]r
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 74
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: H635

Record_ID: 98655
Entry_Number: 64
Year: 1869
Month: Dec
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: HARDING
Grooms_Forenames: Phinilus
Grooms_Age: full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Police Constable
Grooms_Residence: Leigh
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Harding
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Cornelius
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: MILES
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age: full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Hasleton
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Miles
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: Henry Swatton
Witness_2: Sarah [illegible] Buckle
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John T Austin Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Best guess at Groom`s Forename
Register_Reference: P199 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 32
Parish_Chapel: The Leigh
Soundex_Groom: H635
Soundex_Bride: M420

Elizabeth Miles is from "Hazleton", or "Northleach" wrt Census, born abt 1844.
Hazleton is a small village just off the A40 Cheltenham - Oxford road, near Northleach and the ancient Fosse Way A429.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/Hazleton/Gaz1868.html

1861 Census, Cookham Hill Cottage, Hazleton, Glos

Household Number Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County
George Miles Head(Ag lab) 37 1824 Male Westall Oxfordshire
Sarah Miles Wife 37 1824 Female Aldsworth Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Miles Daughter 14 1847 Female Northleach Gloucestershire
Sarah Ann Miles Daughter 12 1849 Female Hazleton Gloucestershire
Eliza Miles Daughter 5 1856 Female Hazleton Gloucestershire

---------------

So there's some "evidence" that Cornelius marries Annie, daughter of his Police boss Donald Macrae; however FreeBMD states he marries a Jean Annie FRASER in 1897, and I cannot find an earlier marriage to a Mr Fraser for Annie Macrae, so ??.

Record_ID: 13782
Entry_Number: 311
Year: 1864
Month: Jan
Day: 1
Grooms_Surname: HARDING
Grooms_Forenames: Cornelius
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: collier
Grooms_Residence: Newnham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Harding
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Jamwes
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: stone cutter
Brides_Surname: HALL
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newnham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Hall
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: carpenter
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: he marks she signs
Witness_1: Edward Roberts
Witness_2: Mary Roberts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: E. C. Brice perp. curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Full & Newnham centred in box
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 156
Parish_Chapel: Newnham
Soundex_Groom: H635
Soundex_Bride: H400

Could? they have had a son named Cornelius ?, if so could he be the same man who was PC Cornelius Harding at the scene of the murder of Police Sergeant William Morris at Viney Hill(Newnham area) in 1895 ?

That said a quick look at FreeBMD hasn't been obviously forthcoming ??
Full story & photo here http://www.gloucestershirepolicemuseum.co.uk/page_2346438.html

Given that he finished his Police career in 1920 in Hucclecote, this looks like his Death Record;

Deaths Dec 1943
Harding Cornelius 72 Gloucester R. 6a 468

So would be born abt 1871 which fits the above events.
This also suggests these records just across the Severn in South Glos;

Births Sep 1871
Harding Cornelius Thornbury 6a 198

Marriages Mar 1897
Barber Wallace Barton R. 6a 233
CONDON Annie Barton R. 6a 233
FRASER Jean Annie Barton R. 6a 233
Harding Cornelius Barton R 6a 233

Record_ID: 4350
Entry_Number: 315
Year: 1862
Month: Oct
Day: 4
Grooms_Surname: HARDING
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas Cornelius
Grooms_Age: 29
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Ruardean Woodside
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Harding
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Cornelius
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: DAVIS
Brides_Forenames: Johanna
Brides_Age: 23
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Lea Bailey
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Mark
Witness_1: Edwin Harper
Witness_2: Hannah Edmunds
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry G. Nicholls
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 158
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex_Groom: H635
Soundex_Bride: D120

Record_ID: 57153
Entry_Number: 675
Year: 1834
Month: Sep
Day: 21
Parents_Surname: HARDING
Child_Forenames: Cornelius
Fathers_Forenames: Cornelius
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbrooke Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 85
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: H635

Year, Parents Surname, Child Forenames, Parents Forenames, Mothers Surname, Residence Occupation Parish Chapel

1828 HARDING Priscilla, Cornelius & Elizabeth, Woodside Labourer Ruardean
1832 HARDING Phineas, Cornelius & Elizabeth, Forest of Dean Labourer Ruardean
1834 HARDING Cornelius, Cornelius & Elizabeth, Ruardean Labourer Ruardean

1863 HARDING Emma Louisa, Cornelius & Joanna, Ruardean Collier Ruardean
1865 HARDING Charlotte Ann, Cornelius & Johanna, East Dean Collier Ruardean
1869 HARDING Alice Elizabeth, Cornelius & Hannah, East Dean Collier Ruardean
1871 HARDIN Alfred Thomas, Cornelius & Hannah, Woodside Collier East Dean Methodist
1880 HARDING Albert George, Cornelius & Ann, Ruardean Labourer Ruardean

Cornelius also goes under the name Thomas, maybe this is him, right Church & locality ?

1886 HARDING Annie Elizabeth Frances, Thomas, [not stated], Reddings Collier East Dean Methodist

"Reddings" is difficult to place on modern maps, internet searching may lead you to Reddings Lane near Staunton/Coleford, this is not the same place. I only know of the Reddings as it's my father's home area, roughly same area as Moorwood; by my way of thinking it's on the northern side of Ruardean Hill, overlooking Courtfield on the Wye, just before reaching Joys Green enroute southwest from Ruardean village towards Upper Lydbrook.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/1+Courtfield+View,+Forest+of+Dean,+The+Reddings,+Ly...

Could these Marriage PRs be other sons, right ages ?

Record_ID: 25579
Entry_Number: 288
Year: 1914
Month: Feb
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: HARDEN
Grooms_Forenames: Harold
Grooms_Age: 27
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Chauffeur
Grooms_Residence: Edgbaston Birmingham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Harden
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Retired
Brides_Surname: MATTHEWS
Brides_Forenames: Lillie Sophia
Brides_Age: 28
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Ruardean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Matthews
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Arthur
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Albert Edward Hall
Witness_2: Florence Alice Matthews
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Edward Parnell Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 144
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex_Groom: H635
Soundex_Bride: M320

Could the witnesses be linked to the Hardings ?

Record_ID: 10180
Entry_Number: 405
Year: 1919
Month: Aug
Day: 9
Grooms_Surname: HARDING
Grooms_Forenames: Arthur Thomas
Grooms_Age: 31
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Tin Plate Worker
Grooms_Residence: Lydbrook
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: HARDING
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: PRICE
Brides_Forenames: Florence Mary
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Lydbrook
Brides_Fathers_Surname: PRICE
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George Allan (deceased)
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: Frederick Charles Harding
Witness_2: Annie walker
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: G A Hopkins
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P208 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 203
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook
Soundex_Groom: H635
Soundex_Bride: P620

Note witness Frederick Charles Harding, another possible son?, but seems unlikely given the Birth Record; I'd have guessed this would have been registered at Monmouth for a father in the Ruardean area, also mother not Joanna Davis, so ??

From GlosBMD;
Birth Details

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HARDING Fred Charles HARDING HARDING SIMMONDS 1892 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 63 382

HOWEVER, also from GlosBMD we find, also at Newnham Office, is this Charlotte Ann bap1865, or a different child ?;

Birth Details

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HARDING Annie HARDING HARDING DAVIS 1864 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 25 253

Also from GlosBMD;

HARDING Alice Elizabeth HARDING HARDING DAVIS 1869 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 30 76

HARDING Alfred Thomas HARDING HARDING DAVIS 1871 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 33 127

HARDING Helena Emily HARDING HARDING DAVIS 1874 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 38 13

I hope these help ???

Anyhow, if it helps, see here for a very helpful discussion about "Garnderris"; apparently a "lost" village now it's small ironworks has long-gone. Seems likely given it's relative remoteness and small size that John George was working at this ironworks c1835 when his daughter Mary was born there, which is the same time moreorless when Elizabeth George was also born there...
It's only a few miles northeast of Blaenavon, enroute to Abergavenny. Tredegar is a little farther in the opposite direction, near the far bigger iron works at Ebbw Vale.
Polycat, it may be worth your also asking the good people of the Tredegar forum ?

See http://www.tredegar.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3324
http://history.govilon.com/trail/garnddyrys/
Also http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Trevethan/

It seems that the Garnderris iron (or "forge") works was very important in it's day, in the early 1800s, but those days were short-lived and had ended abruptly by abt 1860.
http://www.secret-bottletop.com/Pwll-Du/History.html
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/blaenavon-ironworks-114547/

GR 1841 Census, Walford, Upper Coppice (Heref.)

Cornelias HARDING, 40, Game Keeper, not born in county
Elizabeth, 35, not born in county
Pricilla, 12, not born in county
Phenius, 8, not born in county [later correction from Thomas]
Cornelias, 6, , not born in county

GR 1851 Census, Walford, Kerne Bridge

Cornelius HARDING, Head, Mar, 50, Toll Collector, b. Glos. Ruardean
Elizabeth, Wife, Mar, 47, b. Glos. Ruardean
Elizabeth GEORGE, Niece, 13?, b. Mon. Garnderris?
Thomas HARDING, Son, 18, Ag. Lab, b. Glos. E. Dean

Also GR 1851 Census, Trevethin, Pontnewynydd (nr. Pontypool)

John GEORGE, Head, Mar, 46, Baller in Iron Works, b. Glam. Aberdare
Jane, Wife, Mar, 46, b. Glos. Lidbrook
Mary, Daur, U, 15, b. Mon. Garnderris?
Thomas, Son, 3, b. Mon. Trevethin
Cornelius HARDING, Nephew, 17, Invalid, b. Glos, Ruardean

It looks like there must be some kind of connexion between the HARDING and GEORGE families but which Thomas or Cornelius (if either) went on to produce the children you are trying to identify?