As soon as I saw this, I can see your original posting in my head. I totally remember it, just not sure why I never went back and reviewed.

Ann's age perhaps, but having Betsy next store...

I think I may need a drink! (It's 12:03pm in Chicago), so it's OK.

Sorry folks. Again, I didn't go back at previously captured documentation. Learn from my embarrassment! I didn't check the pages before or after!

I say that you found him...geez. All this time under my nose. That brings up all kinds of thoughts about the apparent arrangements!
I really blew this one.

How do I repay you and Slowhands for yet again for saving the day?

Donation to FoD? Any American ancestors that I can try to dig up?

?

Have you eliminated the 1851 census for Newham -

Dockham

MORGAN (transcribed on Ancestry as MAYAN)

Edward - 36 - Coal Miner, born West Dean
Ann - 47 - born Little Dean

as next door is Eliza WAITE who is aged 11 with her family

They are in my original thread :-)

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=8213&page=7&ca...

Wendy

Have you eliminated the 1851 census for Newham -

Dockham

MORGAN (transcribed on Ancestry as MAYAN)

Edward - 36 - Coal Miner, born West Dean
Ann - 47 - born Little Dean

as next door is Eliza WAITE who is aged 11 with her family

Richard is definitely a Waite. I will now go after the other certs. I did not see any baptismal for them the last time I checked, but I will definitely check again.

I'm a little embarrassed that I missed those births. I did see Mary Ann after the census in 1861 and for some reason, didn't go backward.

Can you forgive me for having you find the (somewhat) obvious?

For those just getting started, it's good to keep track of what you've checked and not rule anything out. It's also good to go back after a while and look at old records in case you've missed something. Use me as an example! :)

I was so sure that he was married before, that I discounted the possibility that they were all Waites. I should have considered it as it was either not that uncommon to not be married or, at the very least, like mother, like daughter. Her mother had three children with Samuel Hale and they, too, are listed with a single mother.

Wendy

???

John 1859
Mary Ann 1861

(From FOD records, we already know Elizabeth WAITE, (single woman) had Richard christened 17 May 1857 at Cinderford)

Gloucestershirebdm

Child Surname: WAITE

Child Forename: John

Mother's Surname: WAITE

Mother's Former Name: WAITE

Year: 1857

District: Forest of Dean

Office: Westbury on Severn, Newnham

Register: 17

Entry: 334

------

and also

Child Surname: WAITE

Child Forename: Mary Ann

Father's Surname: (Blank)

Mother's Surname: WAITE

Year: 1861

District: Forest of Dean

Office: Westbury on Severn, Newnham

Register: 21

Entry: 494

-

Looking at Freebdm - birth registration of a Mary Ann WAITE, Westbury on Severn J/A/S Qtr 1861 - which was after the 1861 census.
---

There is also a William WAITE - 1859 - Westbury on Severn, Register 19, Entry 320 (perhaps known as John) and an Eliza WAITE - 1863, Register: 23, Entry: 483 - same district etc.

----

Going over 'old ground'

Looking at the 1861 Census, for

MORGAN

Edward - 46
Elizabeth - 23
Rebecca - (which has been suggested could be Richard) age 4
John - 2

This census is

Registration District: Westbury on Severn

Sub-registration District: Newnham

which appears to may be link with the births registered above.

Thanks, Slowhands. Research on Edward is slow, but I have not given up!

I have tried many things to narrow Edward down and his first wife, whoever that was, but Edward doesn't appear to want to be found yet.

I have census records for 1861+, his will, his death cert, his marriage cert to Betsy, and no mention of father or previous wife.. I also have to entertain that Edward came to FoD after his first marriage.

I have all children's births accounted for (baptismal transcripts here on FoDFH) except John and Mary Ann. They would be from the first marriage.

I found a John Morgan, Sept 1859 Keynsham and a Mary Ann Morgan, Mar 1861 also Keynsham. These appear to be the only two in the same location. I am assuming of course that they were living in the same area when they were both born. I guess I have nothing to lose but a few dollars. Unfortunately, I am not sure the certs will solve anything for me, but you never know.

Edward has always been listed as a collier, so I'm not sure about a carpenter's son, but all of this keeps me busy and out of trouble. :)

Thanks again, folks. You are always so helpful. Any new suggestions are welcome!

Wendy

P.S. I am also persistent...last week I broke through a 20 year brick wall. :)

Keynsham is too far away and they children are declared as born Cinderford

They are WAITE not MORGAN in BMD's ( please see my previous reply)

I have tried many things to narrow Edward down and his first wife, whoever that was, but Edward doesn't appear to want to be found yet.

I have census records for 1861+, his will, his death cert, his marriage cert to Betsy, and no mention of father or previous wife.. I also have to entertain that Edward came to FoD after his first marriage.

I have all children's births accounted for (baptismal transcripts here on FoDFH) except John and Mary Ann. They would be from the first marriage.

I found a John Morgan, Sept 1859 Keynsham and a Mary Ann Morgan, Mar 1861 also Keynsham. These appear to be the only two in the same location. I am assuming of course that they were living in the same area when they were both born. I guess I have nothing to lose but a few dollars. Unfortunately, I am not sure the certs will solve anything for me, but you never know.

Edward has always been listed as a collier, so I'm not sure about a carpenter's son, but all of this keeps me busy and out of trouble. :)

Thanks again, folks. You are always so helpful. Any new suggestions are welcome!

Wendy

P.S. I am also persistent...last week I broke through a 20 year brick wall. :)

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if there were baptismal records available for St. Michael's? I have found a possibility on Ancestry, but there is little information. The baptism that I saw was Jun 1823.

Thank you,
Wendy

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=entry&id=36418

Edward's age/dob varies alot !

a possible ( given rounding in 1841)
1841 Littledean Woodside
Mary Morgan abt 1781 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Emma Morgan abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Jacob Baldwin abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
George Bennett abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Morgan abt 1756 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Edward Morgan abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire Collier

1851 Dockham / Cinderford
Edward Mayan abt 1815 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Extraparochial Gloucestershire
Ann Mayan abt 1804 Little Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Extraparochial Gloucestershire

I am sure there is no marriage to Ellen GALDER, just lives with Elizabeth WAITE
( the mariage transcription in 1867 doesnt mention widower)

Is this Rebecca ?

Year: 1857
Month: May
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: WAITE
Child_Forenames: Richard
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Cinderford
Occupation: Single woman
Officiating_Minister: J G Smythies
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 89
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John

this is John (MORGAN)
WAITE John
WAITE
1859 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 19 221

1861
Edward Morgan abt 1815 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Morgan abt 1838 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Rebecca Morgan abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Morgan abt 1859 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

This is mary Ann (MORGAN)
WAITE Mary Ann
WAITE
1861 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 21 494

MORGAN Edward
WAITE Betsy
Forest of Dean Drybrook Holy Trinity 1867 1 437

Year: 1867
Month: Sept
Day: 1
Grooms_Surname: MORGAN
Grooms_Forenames: Edward
Grooms_Age: 45
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Bilson Green
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: WAILE
Brides_Forenames: Betsy
Brides_Age: 28
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Bilson Green
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Waile
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Signed
Witness_1: Job Jenkins
Witness_2: Harriet Jenkins
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: William Barker
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 219
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

1871
Ed Morgan 41
Elizabeth Morgan 32
Rd Morgan 15
John Morgan 12
Mary Ann Morgan 10
George Morgan 6
Wm Morgan 3

1881 Bilson Green
Ed. Morgan . abt 1825 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizh. Morgan . abt 1835 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary A. Morgan abt 1861 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Edwd. Morgan abt 1864 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
George Morgan abt 1865 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Morgan abt 1868 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Morgan abt 1872 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Julia Morgan abt 1875 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Rosa Morgan abt 1875 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Arthur Morgan E. abt 1876 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alfred Morgan abt 1880 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

Year: 1887
Month: Jan
Day: 11
Surname: MORGAN
Forenames: Edward
Residence: Cinderford
Age_at_death: 62 y[ea]rs
Officiating_Minister: D W Rees
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/13
Page_No: 159
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John

To a lesser extent the very earliest tramways (horse drawn railways used to carry the coal) had wooden "rails" before iron, as were the wagons/trams/tubs running on them.

All these had to be carefully made and then constantly maintained by skilled carpenters, perhaps Edward or even his father was a mine-carpenter ?

For info from C20th text.
"Mines used large quantities of wooden pit props, in the 1920's about half of all the wood moved by rail was pit props (about eight million tons a year) but by the end of the nineteen thirties the quantity moved had fallen to about four million tons a year. Wood is not terribly heavy however so that still represents an awful lot of wagon loads on the system.

Pit props are always soft wood, supplied in lengths ranging from two and a half foot long to eleven foot long (in increments of about 6 inches) and in diameters ranging from three inches to about a foot.
Pit wood is pit props with the bark still in place, pit props are always used with the bark removed and most were shipped in this condition. Quite a lot were however supplied with the bark in place, this being removed by the mine in its own workshops. Current regulations (1989) specify less than 5 percent of the bark must remain on `peeled' props.

The props must be straight and roughly even in length, with no protruding knots or branch stubs which might be snagged and cause a collapse. `Split props' are props which have been cut along their length and so have a half round section, these are used to support the roof, being supported in turn by conventional props to either end. Wooden pit props are still used in all British coal mines, although only for temporary support. It would be usual to see several wagon loads in a train, the props were generally imported and a mine would have a block load delivered from the docks."

Having said this, Barton St Michael is in Gloucester city so some distance* from the mines of the FoD (* in the early 1800s pre railways & good roads). If his parents were still in Barton St Michael when Edward was old enough to start working, perhaps there wasn't sufficient work for him in the carpentry trade, did he have older brothers who took priority in the business ?. Or maybe he could just earn better money in the newly opening mines, especially if he did have some carpentry skills too ?

I know that Edward was a miner - He would have gone into the same profession as his father, correct? I didn't think they would have switched professions and Benj is a carpenter. I guess I have some additional investigating!

I hope that I haven't kept you up late :)

Thanks again.

Benjamin (Carpenter) & Elizabeth MORGAN

Maria MORGAN - 14 November 1819, residence: Barton St Mary - Gloucester St Mary de Lobe **

Mary Anne MORGAN - 6 May 1821, Gloucester St Michael

Benjamin Thurston MORGAN - 14 August 1825, residence, South Hamlet Sudbrook, Gloucester, Christchurch

--

Looking at Gloucestershire Marriage Index

a Benjamin MORGAN married Elizabeth BIRT - 5 January 1819 - Gloucester St Mary de Lobe (also on FoD records)

The image that they include is not very helpful, but I have a feeling that this is all that is available/was written down.

With a name like Edw Morgan, it's hard to prove which one is mine! I'm hoping to get a little more information so that I can put a case together. Didn't they know that I would come back almost 200 years later looking for them? :)

Thank you for asking/helping.

Wendy

I have the Gloucestershire CD's with baptisms for Gloucester St Michael 1813-1837

e.g.

Edward MORGAN - christened 15 June 1823

parents: Benjamin (Carpenter) & Elizabeth

I was wondering if there were baptismal records available for St. Michael's? I have found a possibility on Ancestry, but there is little information. The baptism that I saw was Jun 1823.

Thank you,
Wendy