Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Edward Albert ASHCROFTs, and Charcoal Burners.

Edward Albert ASHCROFTs, and Charcoal Burners. (reply)

unknown — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:11:49 +0000

Hello I've just joined as I had a message via ancestry that you were looking into this family.

I have most of the info from above

1861 Wyre Hill, Bewdley
George Ashcroft age 35 widowed
Ellen (age 6) Daughter
Sarah Parmenter unmarried age 22
Edward Parmenter age 1

Georges other children are living with other family members, is 1st wife Susannah died 21 dec 1856.

Having gone through each census and tying up the children the only Edward Viable that fits in with this family is Edward Parmenter

Now one would assume that they were a travelling family. In a way they were. Out of 6 brothers only 1 stayed in Ribbesford, 1 went to Dudley and 4 went to Wales
I followed George (and his brother Thomas) from Ribbesford (Bewdley, Worcestershire) through the different census and by cross referencing with the old railway maps - they were following the railways - but thats not all

George had a colourfull past
1846 Aquittal Worcestershire Court
1850 Imprisonment Hereford Court
1851 census Ribbesford
1858 Imprisonment Worcestershire Court
1861 census Ribbesford
1871 census Monmouthshire
1874 imprisonment Monmouthshire

all the above are in Berrows Newspapers plus a few more! (Thomas is mentioned a few times as well x

To give you an idea of what life was like living in the Wyre Forest at Ribbesford there is a good publication

A Living from The Forest by EM Crowther published by Bewdley Historical Group

I bought my copy from Bewdley Museum

Ashcrofts are mentioned quite extensivley in it

Edward Albert ASHCROFTs, and Charcoal Burners. (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 23:34:22 +0000

Hi again, really pleased you're reading up on the Vurrest and checking-out the rest of this site too. For an insight into the history this is a good introduction
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/?About_the_Forest

and also these books by HG Nicholls c1850
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/?eBooks

Re trying to untangle your Edward Ashcrofts, I recommend searching on FreeBMD, coverage is very good for our area. Looking at the results for all Edward Ashcrofts across all the UK from 1837 shows a distinct Ashcroft line in the Newport Monmouthshire District, as shown below, undoubtedly this site will include more of your family's BMDs too if you try it:

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASHCROFT Edward Newport, M 11a 231
ASHCROFT Henry Newport, M 11a 231
Bevans Martha Matilda Cardiff 11a 231
BOYT Elizabeth Newport, M. 11a 231
MORGAN Harriet Newport M 11a 231
Ormond William Newport M 11a 231
Wilson Lydia Newport M 11a 231

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASHCROFT Edward Albert Newport M 11a 188

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ashcroft Edward Albert 1 Newport, M. 11a 157

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ashcroft Edward Albert Newport, M. 11a 260

Surname First name(s) Mother/Age District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASHCROFT Edward T Mitchell Newport M. 11a 625

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASHCROFT Edward A Edwards Newport M 11a 596
Edwards Martha M Ashcroft Newport M 11a 596

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

So from these you can see that yes, the first Edward Albert who's birth was registered in the Oct/Nov/Dec/ Quarter of 1880 had sadly died by early 1882.
Purely from these BMDs I'd assume he was probably the child of one of the Ashcroft Marriages earlier in 1880, it appears to be that of Edward & Harriet Morgan altho not clear from this source alone.
The next child named Edward Albert Ashcroft had his birth registered within Jan/Feb/Mar 1894 (so it may have even occurred in late December). From this sequence of BMDs I would assume he was probably of the same parents as indeed you confirm, being your grandfather. As you are no doubt aware, it seems so many Ashcroft sons were named Edward after a previous Edward as per family traditions, however to avoid daytoday confusion in practice their second names were predominantly used ie Albert.

If you search for all Ashcrofts within the District you'll get a better idea of the whole household AND any OTHER local Ashcrofts too of course, some of which may still be relations. You may even find more that were not caught by the Census's.
The site gives such BMDs from 1873 upto 1953.

---------------

Finally, yes you are correct, charcoal burning was a major Forest enterprise in the past. Charcoal burning demonstrations still take place at the Forest's Heritage Museum, http://www.deanheritagecentre.com/museum/deanheritagemuseum.htm

For "the" detailed reference history of the Forest(or indeed the UK in general) the Victorian British History site is essential reading.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23267

The "Ironworks" section describes how large quantites of charcoal was essential for ironmaking in the C13th, but it's use had to be governed by Law as it caused too much destruction of woodland so important for the Navy's shipbuilding and so on. The introduction of coke-fuelled furnaces stopped this problem, but charcoal burning on a vastly smaller scale continued until after World War 2, as this prior thread and the associated photos show.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=24516

PARMENTER (reply)

m p griffiths — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:21:31 +0000

1851 Census, Ribbesford, Worcestershire

PARMENTER

John - 39 - Waterman - born Worcestershire, Bewdley
Susannah - 37
Charlotte - 14
Sarah - 11
Charles - 9
Mary Ann - 7
John - 4
William - 9 months

(still there in 1861/1871 census - transcribed on Ancestry as PERMENTON & PERMENTER)

Edward ASHCROFT/PARMENTER - 1891 census (reply)

m p griffiths — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:51:31 +0000

'Can't find them 1891 census'

re-checking via Public Members Tree -

1891 Wales Census

Mynyddyslwyn

ASHCROFT

Edward - 32 - Coal Miner - all born Monmouthshire
Harriet - 33
Sarah Anne - MORGAN - step-daughter 13
Edgar George - 10
Reginal - 7
Llewellyn - 5
Wallace - 4
Alice - 1

also this info

1901 Wales Census, Mynyddslwyn

Monmouthshire

DAVIES

William - 36
Eliza - 26
Beatrice May BEYNON - 6
Lily DAVIES - 3
Wm G DAVIES - 1
Sarah ASHCROFT - 61 - mother-in-law - born Bewdley
James ASHCROFT - 34
Clara ASHCROFT - 28
Blanche ASHCROFT -4

----

There are quite a number of family trees on Ancestry - inc this info

England & Wales Criminal Register 1846 - Worcs

George ASHCROFT - age 21 - trial - 29 June 1846, Worcs, Acquitted of larcency

and he first married a Susannah

1851 Census, Ribbesford, Bewdley

ASHCROFT

George - 25 - bosom Maker
Susannah - 21
Elizabeth - 4 months

Mary STOKES, Servant age 12

(family of ASTON's a few doors away)

Edward ASHCROFT/PARMENTER (reply)

aitch2oh — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:44:48 +0000

Thank you all for such quick replies. I am pretty certain that my Edward Ashcroft is the one that married Harriet because I have their promise ring with their names in it. Their first child was Edgar George but the census has him down as twin to Edward Albert. I think that twin died and they had 12 children of whom another son was given the names Edward Albert and that was my grandfather. Harriet and Edward and the twins and another child are in the 1881 census but I cannot find anything about them in the 1991 census and then they are in the 1901 census with 8 children my grandfather being 7 years old and always known as Albert. Now I know why and wonder if he did because twins were never mentioned.

As far as I can tell the large family of Ashcrofts in 1871 who had the 13 year old lodger called Edward Ashcroft are the first Ashcrofts in the Glamorgan part of the Forest of Dean area which then covered a bit of Worcester. So I will run with the suggestions you have given me and see how far I go back.

Yes I am reading the whole site bit by bit and I find it very interesting especially how very large the forrest nce was/

Incidently I do remember my grandfather saying that his father made charcoal at one time. Now that sounds like a forest trade.

Edward ASHCROFT/PARMENTER (reply)

m p griffiths — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:06:06 +0000

Various Public Members Trees on Ancestry

Will re-check - but this is the 1861 Census on one tree (with Edward ASHCROFT 1858-1926 & Harriet MORGAN 1859-1930) - Also have sent the contributor an email via Ancestry -

Bewdley, Worcs.

George ASHCROFT - 35 Woodcutter, born Bewdley, Worcs
Ellen ASHCROFT - daughter - 6
Sarah PARMENTER - unmarried 22 - born Bewdley
Edward PARMENTER - 1 boarder - ditto

(next door a family of ASTON, also Wood Cutter - with a Maria ASHCROFT - Lodger, age 5 - born Ribbesford, Worcs)

---

1881 Census, Monmouthshire, Bedwas

Bryan

John ASHCROFT - Head - Mar 19 Timber Haulier Carter, born Worcester, Brindley
Isabella ASHCROFT - Wife - 17 - born Mon. Newchurch End

Bryan

ASHCROFT

George - mar 54 - Basket & broom maker, born Worcester, Brindley
Sarah - wife - 39 - born brindley
James - son - 14 - Basket & BroomMaker, born Mon, Ponytpool
Susan - daughter - 10- - born Mon. Pontypool

Bryan

ASHCROFT

Edward - 23 - Timber Hauler Carter, born Gloucester Forest of Dean
Harriet - wife - 25 - born Mon. Tredegar
Edward A - 5 months, born Mon. Bedwas
Edgar G - 5 months - ditto
Sarah A MORGAN - Step Dau - 3 - born Mon. Risca

Edward Ashcroft born +/- 1858 Birthplace, Forest of Dean (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:05:51 +0000

Hi and welcome to his great forum and website. In case you haven't done so yet, please don't forget to checkout the rest of the website, apart from an immense database of Parish Records and a friendly helpfull forum theres so much to see and all searchable, such as old photos, old documents, wills, inquests, e-books, maps and so on.
Re your Ashcroft query, yes it does sound like possibly travellors, altho there has always been a lot of movement between the Forest and Merthyr etc thro the iron & coal industries.
If you search this forum for prior threads (in case someone else is also researching "your" line) you'll find the following which may be relevant, the first of which I see mentions besom makers.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=30623

PS Ooops, a few seconds ago there were no replies and now I see the we're "fighting" to reply, were you guys enjoying your afternoon cuppa too ? :-)
I'll leave you in their morethancapable hands, good luck with your researches !

Edward ASHCROFT born +/- 1858 , FoD & Worcs. & MON (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:03:25 +0000

Hello

I signed up with this forum specifically to see if anyone else is related to my Great Gandfather who, according to the 1881 census, was born in the Forest of Dean. I thought that meant he was born under the trees, literally, but I am now reading up on the Forest of Dean in Victorian times to learn more.

The only previous census that has an Edward Ashcroft is 1871 when he was a lodger with a large family of Ashcrofts who were besom makers whos address at that time was Black Brook, Cardiff Road, Forest, Merthyr Tydfil, which makes me think they were a travelling family.

I look forward to hearing from anyone who might be tracing these families.

I think you are right with the Traveller connection - the places of birth and occupations on the 1871 are on familiar Hereford/Worcs/Glos traveller routes..

1871
Thomas Ashcroft 38
Sarah Ashcroft 40
John Ashcroft 15
Henery Ashcroft 13
Walter Ashcroft 8 Months
Emmaly Ashcroft 11
Maria Ashcroft 6
Susanah Ashcroft 3
George Herscroft 24
Edward Ashcroft 13 Worcestershire

This could be him "Bewdley area"

Name: Edwin Ashcroft
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1858
Registration district: Kidderminster
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 257

and his marriage

Name: Harriet Morgan
Name: Edward Ashcroft
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1880
Registration district: Newport
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 231

1901
Edward Ashcroft abt 1858 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Herbert Ashcroft abt 1857 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Reginald Ashcroft abt 1884 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Llewellyn Ashcroft abt 1886 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Wallace Ashcroft abt 1888 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth A Ashcroft abt 1892 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Albert Ashcroft abt 1894 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Wilfred Ashcroft abt 1896 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Harrold Ashcroft abt 1899 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire
Edgar G Ashcroft abt 1881 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire

1911 25 Bryn-Gwyn St Fleur-De-Lys
Edward Ashcroft 52 Monmouthshire
Harriet Ashcroft 53 Tredegar
Albert Ashcroft 17 Fleur-De-Lys
Elizabeth Ashcroft 19 Fleur-De-Lys
Wilfred Ashcroft 15 Fleur-De-Lys
Harold Ashcroft 12 Fleur-De-Lys

and probably his death

Name: Edward Ashcroft
Birth Date: abt 1860
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1926
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Bedwellty
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 122

Edward Ashcroft born +/- 1858 Birthplace, Forest of Dean

aitch2oh — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:14:41 +0000

Hello

I signed up with this forum specifically to see if anyone else is related to my Great Gandfather who, according to the 1881 census, was born in the Forest of Dean. I thought that meant he was born under the trees, literally, but I am now reading up on the Forest of Dean in Victorian times to learn more.

The only previous census that has an Edward Ashcroft is 1871 when he was a lodger with a large family of Ashcrofts who were besom makers whos address at that time was Black Brook, Cardiff Road, Forest, Merthyr Tydfil, which makes me think they were a travelling family.

I look forward to hearing from anyone who might be tracing these families.