The Plough Inn was situated at the junction of the A4136 and the road to Popes Hill and Flaxley.After it was closed it became a shop owned by Cullens and later Cooks,it is now a private house.The Travellers Rest was about half a mile back down the road towards Elton and just above Elton corner.It still exists as a private residence I believe the home of the Mortimer family.

On the opposite corner of the A4136/Popes Hill Flaxley Road is The Greyhound Inn.The Camp Farm is on the opposite side of the A4136 and opposite the Greyhound.

Grove farm was a little further up the road towards Littledean and up over a steep bank on the same side of the road as Camp farm.
Maurice

Thanks Maurice

On the opposite corner of the A4136/Popes Hill Flaxley Road is The Greyhound Inn.The Camp Farm is on the opposite side of the A4136 and opposite the Greyhound.

Grove farm was a little further up the road towards Littledean and up over a steep bank on the same side of the road as Camp farm.
Maurice

I did find that mar of MARY PALMER/EDWARD FRAME 10.11.1814 on FoD & assumed it was that of MARY, the dau of MARY & JOHN - d.1812. How wrong can one be?

Never make assumptions - as I did with ELTON FARM believing that because it was left to SAMUEL BULLOCK who mar ANN PALMER [sister of JOHN PALMER of THE TEMPLE]that they lived there.

RICHARD FRAMES was a witness to JOHN PALMER's will 1812.

LUMBARS LANE & FARM is on one of the maps you 3xM sent me.

Thank you too M - I need to digest this & probably will lie awake half the night.

I dare not pose the rhetorical Q of who brought up MARY PALMER/FRAMES children.

You lot are too much.

Oh but what a site.

On an aside my sister toured around Forest of Dean in the 1980s never knowing what we know now. She did find the Church.

Is it ok to send a pedigree chart to the forum or for that matter, how does one send info like that? I'm really happy to contibute my findings.

Kath

Edward FRAME is transcribed as FREAME

----

?

Baptism at Westbury on Severn

30 February 1781

Edward FREAM

son of Thomas & Mary

---

There is a Richard FREAM on the 1861 census in Newnham age 75 - Farmer of 50 acres (Lumber Farm)

What I'd love to know is what happened to MARY PALMER with 6 young children & pregnant when her husband JOHN PALMER died in 1812? Did she stay on the farm - go back to her mother - go to a sibling - remarry? This is a real saga. And I haven't begun to untangle the PALMER-BULLOCK relationships... Maybe in my next life I'll write a book...

thanks people

Kath

Year: 1814
Month: Nov
Day: 10
Grooms_Surname: FRAME
Grooms_Forenames: Edward
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newnham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: PALMER
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: of Flaxley Parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Jno. Bellamy
Witness_2: Mary Bellamy
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Crawley
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P145 in 1/8
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley

Year: 1815
Month: Apr
Day: 4
Surname: FRAME
Forenames: Mary
Residence: Grove in Flaxley Parish
Age_at_death: 40
Officiating_Minister: Charles Crawley
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (late) (Widow PALMER)
Notes:
Register_Reference: P145 in 1/17
Page_No: 1
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley

Edward FREAMS the widower lives on a farm close by

1841 Lumbers
Richard Kreamer abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire
Edward Kreamer abt 1781 Gloucestershire, England Newnham, Gloucestershire

1851 Lumbers Farm
Richard Freams abt 1787 Westbury on Severn, Gloucestershire, England Head Newnham, Gloucestershire
Edward Freams abt 1776 Westbury on Severn, Gloucestershire, England Brother
Amelia Cowmeadow abt 1801 Ross, Herefordshire, England Servant
John Phillips abt 1831Blandon, Gloucestershire, England Servant

Year: 1856
Month: Mar
Day: 1
Surname: FREAMS
Forenames: Edward
Residence: Westbury
Age_at_death: 75
Officiating_Minister: T Hagley
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 354 IN 1/16
Page_No: 41
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

Lumbers farm was between the Grove and Newnham just below the Grove towards Hyde Farm

'...Another detached portion of Flaxley covered 207 a. east of Littledean in a compact area bounded on the north by the Littledean-Gloucester road and on the south by a track, sunken for part of its course, known as Lumbars Lane. Above it on a bank marking the western boundary is Littledean Camp, (fn. 62) which has been identified with 'the old castle of Dean' standing above land given to the Cistercians by Earl Roger. (fn. 63) The portion, which contained at the north-eastern corner near Camp Farm a tiny detached part of Westbury-on Severn, (fn. 64) was transferred to Littledean in 1883. (fn. 65)'

62 O.S. Area Bk. Little Dean (1878); cf. O.S. Maps 6", Glos. XXXI. SE. (1883 edn.); XXXII. SW. (1883 edn.).
63 Flaxley Cart. p. 16; Trans. B.G.A.S. lxxvii. 57-8.
64 O.S. Map 1/2,500, Glos. XXXII. 9 (1881 edn.).
65 O.S. Area Bk. Flaxley (1880); Census, 1891.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23256

The other GROVE FARM on Flaxley Road is about 2 miles from Newnham according to the owner & was part of the Flaxley Estate.

Slowhands I'm not even thinking about ELTON FARM for now but deep thanks for your hard work.

What I'd love to know is what happened to MARY PALMER with 6 young children & pregnant when her husband JOHN PALMER died in 1812? Did she stay on the farm - go back to her mother - go to a sibling - remarry? This is a real saga. And I haven't begun to untangle the PALMER-BULLOCK relationships... Maybe in my next life I'll write a book...

thanks people

Kath

Probably my favourite site for old maps is the Vision of Britain site as it's so easy to navigate, you can move across large areas just by dragging, and can zoom in & out to reveal different maps all of great clarity. At maximum zoom it shows a first Edition map of the Flaxley area from 1831, very early indeed and showing the Camp, Grove and various Farms. (List below the Map shows the available Sheets and their dates).

From this link to modern map, use dropdown "Map Layer" menu to select "C19th", perhaps also select "bigger map" from top R/H side.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/?layer=europe&xMin=3156445.29173&yMin=28...

For other places just search from here http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/

Mpas: Ordnance Survey 1:10,560 Epoch 1 > England - Gloucestershire > 031/S3

and zoomed in can see The Grove - with buildings - Mill Grove is just above it & Temple - Loads of places names, even trees are marked - etc. can see Boseley (Corn Mill) - so Grove Farm should be 'lurking somewhere'

Trying to find my way round this area looking for various farms, but not sure about the local area and keep clicking on various 'squares' -

Have sent The Grove page to Kath.

Re the Maps on the Geograph site, yes the dotted lines are variations of tracks rather than roads. The exact type of line and their colour denotes whether footpath or bridlepath etc, also whether for public or private use.
Too my surprise (probably just my poor driving !) as good as this website most definitely is, I cannot find a key to the mapping ?
I think this is the correct key for these maps, from the Ordnance Survey (O.S) site, themselves grandfathers of all modern mapping.
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/docs/legends/50k-raster-legend.pdf

Perhaps 'THE GROVE' and 'GROVE FARM' off the Elton-Littledean Road shown on the geograph map you sent were the working farm and the homestead?. They seem to be at the right distance from Newnham. [What a find that catalogue was.]

What are the dotted lines on these maps?
Are they tracks or roads?

I must remember that farmers had to get their cattle to market by the shortest route.
As I must remember for my father in Queensland, grandfather in Queensland, g.grandfather in Victoria, gg.grandfather's brother in Flaxley, ggg.grandfather in Flaxley & possibly gggg.grandfather in Westbury - all farmers. It is mind boggling for this Aussie descendant.

Many thanks once again, Kath

Thomas Evans bapt. 14May1780 Newnham or W on S. Married Margaret Trigg 4Aug1807 W on S. Margaret(ta) bapt. 6Jul1790 Newnham. Both literate. As their children were bapt. fathers occupation farmer 1813 and 1820 Elton.

Still under Elton Tything 1851 Census but Thomas as carpenter.

Finding Ref: D5412/111/49

Flaxley : property including St. Whites, the Grange, Mousehole Farm, Sutton Farm, the Lodge, Maidenham, Flaxley Grove Farm, Upper Flaxley Mill, Upper Stream Cottages, Monkhill Farm (part in Westbury) and Gawlett Farm 1869; Westbury, property including part of Grove Farm and Boseley Farm, 1869; Blaisdon: about 19a of land formerly part of Felthouse Farm, 1869; Newnham: 2 small plots adjoining road from Lambers to Littledean 1869.

Date: 1869-1938

Description: Also includes appointment of funds subject to trusts in the marriage settlement of Sir Thomas and Dame Frances Crawley Boevey. 1902 copy will and codicils of Blanche Crawley-Boevey of Hyenes, Var, France, 1935-1938

Number of Docs: 3 documents

Thank you all for your wonderful findings.

Here is transcript of part of a GROVE FARM FLAXLEY Catalogue of the farm to be sold by auction under instructions from Mrs PALMER 1871. Until I began typing I had missed the clue to the exact position of said farm i.e.'ONE MILE FROM NEWNHAM STATION'![I realize the station no longer exists].

The catalogue was sent to me by the present owner of a GROVE FARM in 'in Westbury Parish but Newnham postcode'.Whether the document relates to her farm I do not know. But it does show that a PALMER lived at Grove Farm Flaxley in 1871.

“GROVE FARM FLAXLEY
One Mile from the Newnham Station
CATALOGUE
OF THE VALUABLE
LIVE AND DEAD STOCK
Ricks of Hay and Clover etc
90 ACRES GRASS-KEEP
Agricultural Implements etc
BRUTON, KNOWLES & BRUTON
Have received instructions from Mrs PALMER
who is quitting the Farm and declining business, to
Sell by Auction, on Tuesday, 24th Oct. 1871…”

I will enc a transcript of John PALMER's 1812 will in another post. As well as showing his children it includes other names that might benefit someone.

Kath

The more you share/uncover the more it narrows the search area down !

So the Plough Inn was believed to be on teh Elton Rd, near Elton corner ( the junction of the roman Gloucester - Chepstow road with the roman road leading up to Littledean http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/142522 )
1851 Elton {Plough Inn}
Sarah Barnett abt 1796 Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England Widow Grocer & InnKeeper
The Plough was probably closed by 1861 and possibly became the Travellers Rest
1871 Elton Travellers Rest
Charles Mitchell abt 1816 Tibberton, Gloucestershire, England Head

A group of cottages, mostly in stone but including two with timber frames, stands along the parish boundary on the road below Pope's Hill in the area known as Blackmore's Hale. Blackmore's Hale Green was mentioned in 1591; (fn. 26) there were at least four houses there by 1639, (fn. 27) and in the later 17th century the tithing was sometimes known as Elton and Blackmore's Hale. (fn. 28) One of the cottages there housed the Plough Inn in 1788 and until c. 1880. (fn. 29) There is another small group of cottages near Upper Hall, all of them of brick with the exception of a derelict timber-framed cottage of one story and dormered attic with a lateral stone chimney with projecting bake-oven. Another projecting bake-oven survives at an L-shaped timber-framed cottage with a gabled dormer south of the Littledean road. A small cottage further east was the Traveller's Rest Inn in 1839 and until at least 1891. (fn. 30)

From: 'Westbury-on-Severn: Introduction', A History of the County of Gloucester: Volume 10: Westbury and Whitstone Hundreds (1972), pp. 79-85. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=15765 Date accessed: 06 August 2013.

Elton farm is 3/4 mile along this road from Elton corner / Plough?

The Camp is 1 1/4 mile along today the Greyhound Inn is a marker to look for http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1640306

The eastern boundary with part of Flaxley took in Littledean Camp, a small earthwork probably of the late 11 th century or early 12th, which has been identified as 'the old castle of Dean' recorded in the mid 12th century. (fn. 15) The earthwork was acquired in 1987 by the Dean Heritage museum.

From: 'Littledean', A History of the County of Gloucester: Volume 5: Bledisloe Hundred, St. Briavels Hundred, The Forest of Dean (1996), pp. 159-173. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23258 Date accessed: 06 August 2013.

The Grove / Grove Farm is almost 2 miles up from Elton, or 1/2 mile before you reach Littledean. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/156135 Newnham rail station was to the north west of the village and about 1 mile away. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3193340

Tibbs Cross can be reached by turning right either just after the Grove, heading across Chestnuts, or turning right later at the George / Belfry along George Lane towards Green Bottom / Gun Mills. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1459050

In the Name of God Amen I JOHN PALMER of the Parish of FLAXLEY in the County of Gloucester Yeoman being weak in Body but of sound and disposing Mind Memory and understanding for which I am deeply thankful to Almighty God do make Publish and declare this – my last Will and Testament in manner following that is to say, I give Devise and bequeath unto my Son JOHN PALMER all and singular those my several Nurseries Pieces or Parcels of Land together with the Stock and Trees growing and being thereon and all the other Trees Planted by me situate lying standing and being at or near a Place called THE CAMP and adjoining the Road leading from THE PLOUGH to LITTLEDEAN in the said County And also all that my Garden or Nursery with the Stocks and Trees standing and growing therein situate and being at a Place called the GROVE STILE and TIBBS CROSS in the Hundreds of Saint Briavells in the said County of Gloucester To hold to my said SON JOHN PALMER his Heirs Executors administrators and assigns according to the nature and quality of such Estate respectively and according to such Estate and Interest that I may have therein at the time of my decease And as to all my ready Money Securities for Money Corn Hay Stock of Cattle Implements in Husbandry Goods Chattels Personal Estate and Effects whatsoever after Payment of all my just Debts and Funeral Expences I give and bequeath the same unto my good Friends JOHN BELLAMY of STONEHOUSE in the County of Gloucester Yeoman and

p.2 BENJAMIN PALMER of NEWNHAM in the said County Gentleman In Trust nevertheless to Permit and suffer my dear WIFE MARY PALMER to occupy and enjoy the use of all my House-hold Goods and Furniture stock of Cattle Implements and utensils in Husbandry for and during the Term of her natural life (In case she so long continue my Widow and from and after the decease or Marriage of my said Wife as aforesaid Then upon Trust for the use and benefit of such Child or Children and of my said wife as my said Trustees shall think proper) Give and bequeath unto my DAUGHTER SARAH PALMER the sum of one hundred and Fifty Pounds I give unto my said SON JOHN PALMER the sum of one hundred and Fifty Pounds I give unto my DAUGHTER ANN PALMER THE sum of one Hundred and Fifty Pounds I give unto my son Esau Palmer the sum of one Hundred and
I give unto my DAUGHTER HARRIET PALMER the sum of one Hundred and Fifty Pounds
Fifty Pounds ˄ I give unto my Daughter Caroline the sum of one hundred and Fifty Pounds my Daughter MARY PALMER (having been Provided for by her Grand Mother) to be Paid to them by my said Trustees when and as soon as they shall respectively attain the age of Twenty one years or day or Days of Marriage or when and as soon as my said Trustees shall think proper If sufficient Property for that purpose And Lastly I do hereby nominate constitute and appoint the said John BELLAMY and Benjamin PALMER and my said Wife Mary PALMER Executors and Executrix of

p.3 this my Will In Witness whereof I have to this my last Will and Testament contained on one sheet of Paper set my Hand and Seal this second day of February in the Year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and Twelve
Signed Sealed Published and declared by the said Testator John Palmer as and for his last Will and Testament in the Presence of us who at his request in his Presence and in the Presence and sight of each other have subscribed our names as witnesses thereto; [signed] John PALMER Wm GOUGH Richd FRAMES Jno BELLAMY Junr
23rd January 1813 The said John BELLAMY & Benjamin PALMER the Executors were duly Sworn before me [signed] Chas. PALMER Sur. Under £1500

Benjamin PALMER of the parish of NEWNHAM in the County of Gloucester ?Swears maketh Oath and saith that he was personally present and did see the several obliterations ?interlineations and erasures in the last Will and Testament of John PALMER late of the parish of Flaxley in the County of Gloucester Yeoman deceased made before the executor such ?like and that the same was done at his particular request in the presence of this deponent

Sworn in the County of Gloucester this 23 January [signed] B PALMER 1813 by and before me [signed] ?Tho GARDNER ?…

[John PALMER d/bur 26.07.1812; Wife Mary nee BELLAMY aged 35; Dau Mary 18 (poss wid); Dau Sarah 16; Son John 12; Dau Ann 7; Son Esau 5 (my g x 2 GF of Ross); Dau Harriet 3; Son Joseph b/bap 16.05.1813, 10 mths after JP died.
His dau Mary’s grandmother was Mary BELLAMY nee GOUGH; have her will of 02.08.1833]

Here is transcript of part of a GROVE FARM FLAXLEY Catalogue of the farm to be sold by auction under instructions from Mrs PALMER 1871. Until I began typing I had missed the clue to the exact position of said farm i.e.'ONE MILE FROM NEWNHAM STATION'![I realize the station no longer exists].

The catalogue was sent to me by the present owner of a GROVE FARM in 'in Westbury Parish but Newnham postcode'.Whether the document relates to her farm I do not know. But it does show that a PALMER lived at Grove Farm Flaxley in 1871.

“GROVE FARM FLAXLEY
One Mile from the Newnham Station
CATALOGUE
OF THE VALUABLE
LIVE AND DEAD STOCK
Ricks of Hay and Clover etc
90 ACRES GRASS-KEEP
Agricultural Implements etc
BRUTON, KNOWLES & BRUTON
Have received instructions from Mrs PALMER
who is quitting the Farm and declining business, to
Sell by Auction, on Tuesday, 24th Oct. 1871…”

I will enc a transcript of John PALMER's 1812 will in another post. As well as showing his children it includes other names that might benefit someone.

Kath

Ancestry Probate Records

PALMER Ann

Effects under £3,000

29 August

The Will of Ann PALMER late of the Temple in the Parish of Littledean in the County of Gloucester, Widow who died 14 February 1876 at the Temple was proved at Gloucester by John PALMER of Swindon Farm near Cheltenham in the said County Farmer and Joseph Benjamin PALMER of Llanvihangel Torymynydd near Chepstow in the County of Monmouth Farmer the Sons two of the Executors.

On the 1851 census Grove Farm is between M.... Farm (John SENDEMORE?) and Meisden Farm (Willm GUEST)

Its next door to Maidenham Farm; and I think Moors Farm http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/528640

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=6261

Burial

12 May 1837

Helen SMITH aged 1 month

Westbury (on Severn) (Grove Farm)

Burial 13 August 1837

George SMITH aged 12

Westbury (on Severn) Grove Farm

and another George - in 1840

----

1841 Census, Flaxley

Flaxley Mill

Edwin PALMER - 30 - Miller
Caroline - 30
Thomas - 6
Harriet - 4
Alfred 2 months

Tibbs Crofs

Henry BINGHAM? Butcher
Anne - 45
Ellen - 20
Henry - 7
Thos MORGAN - 15

Grove Farm

John BEVAN - 35 - Ag. Lab (on th3 1851 census at Grove Farm, Farn Baliff) **
Elizabeth - 35
William - 14
John - 4

**

On the 1851 census Grove Farm is between M.... Farm (John SENDEMORE?) and Meisden Farm (Willm GUEST)