Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Helen Julia SHORTMAN nee BAUMANN, 1896 - 1985

Helen Julia SHORTMAN nee BAUMANN, 1896 - 1985 (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 01:55:18 +0000

Hi S,
thanks for putting me out of my "misery" :-)

So they were ALL in Ilfracombe in 1911 afterall !!

To think I spotted the BANMANN surname variation in the GlosBMD but didnt register enough to search it on the LDS site, maybe demonstrating it's not always a good thing when a site automatically offers variations as it's easy to assume it's thought of all of them... Ah well at least I correctly thought Helen was in service (not hard to guess in those days!)

I'd assumed the BANMANN spelling was an error on part of GlosBMD, but perhaps they did indeed change their name slightly due to pre War worries ?

Thanks again, J

PS for "completeness" if only for me, from LDS:

"England and Wales Census, 1911"

Name: Johns Banmann
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Male
Age: 59
Birthplace: Switzerland
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Barnstaple
Sub-District: Ilfracombe
Parish: Ilfracombe
County: Devonshire

Name: Priscilla Banmann
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Female
Age: 42
Birthplace: Gloss Hitcheldean, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Barnstaple
Sub-District: Ilfracombe
Parish: Ilfracombe
County: Devonshire

Helen Julia SHORTMAN nee BAUMANN, 1896 - 1985 (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:43:52 +0000

"I would especially like to find out what happened to Helen Baumann born 1897
in Gloucester."

I appreciate this is an old post and you've probably subsequently answered your questions, especially with the 1911 Census release, but just in case I can add what I'm sure you've since discovered:

According to FreeBMD Helen's birth is:

Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1897
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAUMANN Helen Julia Gloucester 6a 283 Rockeroo

But this differs slightly from GlosBMD:

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry

BANMANN Helen Julia BANMANN BANMANN PORTER 1896 Gloucester Gloucester, St John the Baptist 28 218

From FreeBMD I wonder if this is her Marriage, still named Baumann:

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1921 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baumann Helen J Shortman Bath 5c 1252
Shortman Thomas Baumann Bath 5c 1252

I don't have access to the 1911 Census(available since your above post) but I'd be interested to know if this seems plausible ?.
I see the GlosBMD site lists the Marriage and subsequent Births re Julius BAUMANN, and there are more BAUMANN PRs listed in the Gloster area right thro the C20th until a 1998 marriage, so it looks like they perhaps didnt "Anglocise" their name after all ?
Finally, I see just the one PR in the Forest site, is this "stranger" an ancestor I wonder ?

Record_ID: 151279
Entry_Number: 296
Year: 1773
Month: Mar
Day: 5
Surname: BAUMAN
Forenames: James
Residence:
Age_at_death: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: Rich[ar]d Thomas Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: A Stran[g]er
Notes:
Register_Reference: P376 IN 1/2
Page_No: 42
Parish_Chapel: Woolaston
Soundex: B550

=====

UPDATE:

Searching the 1911 Census albeit via LDS site, is this your Helen ?

Name: Helen Bauman
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Female
Age: 14
Birthplace: Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Barnstaple
Sub-District: Ilfracombe
Parish: Ilfracombe
County: Devonshire

Altho tricky while using the LDS site I cannot find her parents in this (or any other !) area. I wonder if she's there alone, perhaps working in service, it's an easy place to get to from Gloucester via the GWR.

======

Back to the apparent 1921 Bath marriage of daughter Helen, this looks like her parents, from FreeBMD:

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1919
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAUMANN Julius 63 Bath 5c 895 11-68-02

(Age 63 = born abt 1856, so correct)

AND,

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1940
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baumann Priscilla 70 Bath 5c 1886 Jun

(Age 70 = born abt 1870, also correct).

I'd love to know where Julius & Priscilla were for the 1911 Census !

Name: Helen Julia Shortman
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1896
Date of Registration: Jan 1985
Age at Death: 88
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 22
Page: 357

Julius BAUMANN, in 1911 census (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:39:52 +0000

=====

UPDATE:

Searching the 1911 Census albeit via LDS site, is this your Helen ?

Name: Helen Bauman
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Female
Age: 14
Birthplace: Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Barnstaple
Sub-District: Ilfracombe
Parish: Ilfracombe
County: Devonshire

Altho tricky while using the LDS site I cannot find her parents in this (or any other !) area. I wonder if she's there alone, perhaps working in service, it's an easy place to get to from Gloucester via the GWR.

======

Back to the apparent 1921 Bath marriage of daughter Helen, this looks like her parents, from FreeBMD:

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1919
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAUMANN Julius 63 Bath 5c 895 11-68-02

(Age 63 = born abt 1856, so correct)

AND,

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1940
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baumann Priscilla 70 Bath 5c 1886 Jun

(Age 70 = born abt 1870, also correct).

I'd love to know where Julius & Priscilla were for the 1911 Census !

1911 Ladies School, 9 Oxford Park, Ilfracombe
Helen Banman abt 1897 Gloucester Domestic General (Domestic) Ilfracombe, Devon

1911 Holly House, Ilfracombe
Juline Banmann 59 Switzerland Pantryman hotel
Priscilla Banmann 42 Mitcheldean Cook at home

Helen Julia Baumann, ex Red Lion, Huntley (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:39:14 +0000

"I would especially like to find out what happened to Helen Baumann born 1897
in Gloucester."

I appreciate this is an old post and you've probably subsequently answered your questions, especially with the 1911 Census release, but just in case I can add what I'm sure you've since discovered:

According to FreeBMD Helen's birth is:

Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1897
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAUMANN Helen Julia Gloucester 6a 283 Rockeroo

But this differs slightly from GlosBMD:

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry

BANMANN Helen Julia BANMANN BANMANN PORTER 1896 Gloucester Gloucester, St John the Baptist 28 218

From FreeBMD I wonder if this is her Marriage, still named Baumann:

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1921 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baumann Helen J Shortman Bath 5c 1252
Shortman Thomas Baumann Bath 5c 1252

I don't have access to the 1911 Census(available since your above post) but I'd be interested to know if this seems plausible ?.
I see the GlosBMD site lists the Marriage and subsequent Births re Julius BAUMANN, and there are more BAUMANN PRs listed in the Gloster area right thro the C20th until a 1998 marriage, so it looks like they perhaps didnt "Anglocise" their name after all ?
Finally, I see just the one PR in the Forest site, is this "stranger" an ancestor I wonder ?

Record_ID: 151279
Entry_Number: 296
Year: 1773
Month: Mar
Day: 5
Surname: BAUMAN
Forenames: James
Residence:
Age_at_death: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: Rich[ar]d Thomas Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: A Stran[g]er
Notes:
Register_Reference: P376 IN 1/2
Page_No: 42
Parish_Chapel: Woolaston
Soundex: B550

=====

UPDATE:

Searching the 1911 Census albeit via LDS site, is this your Helen ?

Name: Helen Bauman
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Female
Age: 14
Birthplace: Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Barnstaple
Sub-District: Ilfracombe
Parish: Ilfracombe
County: Devonshire

Altho tricky while using the LDS site I cannot find her parents in this (or any other !) area. I wonder if she's there alone, perhaps working in service, it's an easy place to get to from Gloucester via the GWR.

======

Back to the apparent 1921 Bath marriage of daughter Helen, this looks like her parents, from FreeBMD:

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1919
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAUMANN Julius 63 Bath 5c 895 11-68-02

(Age 63 = born abt 1856, so correct)

AND,

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1940
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baumann Priscilla 70 Bath 5c 1886 Jun

(Age 70 = born abt 1870, also correct).

I'd love to know where Julius & Priscilla were for the 1911 Census !

Julius Baumann/Bawman Red Lion, Huntley (reply)

preston — Wed, 16 May 2007 10:54:12 +0000

Thank you slowhands for the additional info. I think that it is correct as the person entered before him on the 1891 census at The Grove is Priscilla Porter - born in Micheldean.

Looking further back I've now found Julius Baumann aged 26 in the 1881 census living in Kensington, London.

Where he and the family went to after he was landlord of the Red Lion I don't know. They could have changed their name as WW1 approached or they could have emigrated.

I would especially like to find out what happened to Helen Baumann born 1897
in Gloucester.

BAUMANN / BAWMAN Red Lion, Huntley 1901 entry (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 15 May 2007 21:23:06 +0000

1901
Lulias Baumann abt 1854 Swiss Subject, Switzerland Head Huntley Gloucestershire Publican
Priscilla Baumann abt 1869 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Huntley Gloucestershire
Helen Baumann abt 1860 [1897] Gloucestershire, England Daughter Huntley Gloucestershire

and a possible sighting in 1891

1891 The Grove Landsdown Cheltenham
Jules Baumann abt 1834 Garchmen, Switzerland Butler Cheltenham Gloucestershire

Priscilla Porter abt 1869 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Servant Cheltenham Gloucestershire

1881
J. Baumann abt 1855 Switzerland Servant Kensington London

Baumann/Bawman Red Lion, Huntley

preston — Thu, 10 May 2007 10:35:28 +0000

Does anyone know what happened to Julius Baumann born 1854 Switzerland
He was landlord at the Red Lion in Huntley in 1902 and 1903 possibly until 1906. In 1897 he is shown as being at the Kingsholm Inn in Gloucester (Kelly's Directory)
He was married to Priscilla Porter in Cheltenham in 1894 and had at least one child, Helen Julia Baumann born 1897.
Priscilla Porter born 1869 was daughter of John Porter born 1820 Abenhall
and Arabella Yemm born Abenhall 1827. Priscilla was one of least twelve children. Maynard, one of her elder brothers, was my gg grandfather.

Any information regarding Julius Baumann (also known as Bawman) would be appreciated.